Sniper Rifles


(frostyvampire) #1

When I hear the word “sniper” I always think about someone that can headshot and will rek anyone easily if they are good, or if they can’t aim they are useless and a waste of player slot.
MOA and FEL-IX are 2 snipers that actually do bring this but PDP ruins the entire point of it as it’s high rewarding and doesn’t require skill to use and Grandeur… Wait, can I call it a sniper even?

I really want to see something that will encourage people to use bolt action snipers over auto snipers, auto snipers should be nothing more but a practice for new snipers in pubs (unless you play Redeye)

I know that currently the headshot multiplier is 2x for all weapons, but I think it will be a nice touch if you increase it for only sniper rifles. Change them to this:
MOA SNPR-1: 45 damage on legshot, 70 damage on bodyshot, 175 damage on headshot
FEL-IX: 50 damage on legshots, 75 damage on bodyshot, 200 damage on headshot
PDP: 25 damage on legshots, 39 damage on bodyshots and 85 damage on headshot, increase spawn ammo capacity to 30 (2.5 clips), increase clip size to 12, slightly reduce the recoil to make it easier to control
Grandeur: 25 damage on legshots, 40 damage on bodyshot and 85 damage on headshot, reduce the no-scope spread, give it a better iron sight (maybe a mini scope can be nice)

This will encourage people to play with bolt action snipers because headshots will kill any merc in a single headshot (except Rhino which can only be 1 shot with the FEL-IX but not MOA) and will also insta-gib a lot of mercs. Also this will make people stop calling the FEL-IX “a bad MOA” because it will be able to gib more mercs and 1 shot kill a full hp Rhino (without Tryhard perk).
Auto snipers will still be able to 1 shot Aura or Sparks and 2 shot any merc that isn’t Rhino. PDP still won’t require much skill to use but you get a heavy punishment for using it due to the lack of damage if you can’t headshot, so any good sniper will know that bolt action is almost always better
Aimee will still be able to 1 shot bodyshot 90hp debuffed mercs with the FEL-IX and kill anyone up to Phoenix with a PDP/Grandeur headshot (if they are debuffed)

The main point of this is to make you rewarded even more for being a good sniper and to make snipers that can’t aim barely get kills regardless of their weapon. Being a sniper requires you to have a good aim, if you don’t have that aim, you shouldn’t play it


(Yoma) #2

[quote=“FrostyVampire;30666”]
PDP: 25 damage on legshots, 39 damage on bodyshots and 85 damage on headshot, increase spawn ammo capacity to 30 (2.5 clips), increase clip size to 12, slightly reduce the recoil to make it easier to control[/quote]
Yes, its so easy and requires no skill, so make it easier to control!!!

I#m not playing with the PDP at all but did yesterday, hsed nearly always with the first shot but missed a few after that initial shot. I did some good stuff like 180 turn and hs a Proxy but in the end im better with the FEL-IX.

That the FEL-IX should get buffed is true, but for now thats all i would do. One thing at a time to not end up messing up the whole thing again.


(Equanimity) #3

Felix damage sits perfectly where you can 1 shot body shot any 100hp or lower merc with aimee’s debilitation on them. Lowering the actual damage amount on body shots would simply ruin the gun even if it is still inferior to MoA in some ways. As for an increase in overall headshot damage with bolt action sniper rifles I think it’s not unreasonable to want to down a thunder in one headshot, but if that headshot damage gets too high then on mercs like aura or sparks a single headshot will not only down an enemy but also finish them, which is kind of bs (unless they’re debuffed by aimee) so it’s not realistic from a balance stand point on the MoA because that thing fires so fast it may as well be a PDP, but the current felix? Sure.


(frostyvampire) #4

It will be easier to control but the reduced damage makes up for it. If the recoil stays as it is now and damage is decreased it will become completely useless, it shouldn’t be a good gun but we don’t want it to be useless either

That’s the point, so you can finish low hp mercs instantly with a headshot. Snipers should always aim for the head, you shouldn’t bodyshot people unless they are low on health. Also most of the time even if you debuff Phoenix, before you get the opportunity to bodyshot him and kill, he will most likely heal that 1hp and then your 99 damage still let him survive, and buffing the FEL-IX to 80 damage would just make more people wanna bodyshot and it will be too OP against Aura/Sparks


(Drac0rion) #5

It’s a really nice idea, but I’m not too sure about the values. I would very much like to see a nerf to the bodyshot values, raising the skill ceiling for sniping, but I don’t think that the headshot damage needs much of a change.

In general I think PDP could use a rework and it would hopefully end up like FG42 from Wolfenstein: ET. (Would probably be my dream sniper rifle in DB.)
Grandeur feels at a pretty decent spot, the biggest difficulty being dealing with the ironsight and recoil management.

But what really caught my eye was the damage you discussed.

MOA at the moment is 75 bodyshot, 150 headshot.
Fel-ix is 79 bodyshot, 158 headshot.

What I personally would like to see is reduced bodyshot damage for these snipers as they are rather powerful. I mean Fel-ix can literally one shot any 80hp merc if they have taken damage from any source at all, even 1 damage from snitch after the 79dmg bodyshot and they die.

This could also differentiate the two snipers that are considered near identical.
The sniper rifles should still hit hard, so I can’t really nerf the bodyshots too much with my idea here.

These values shouldn’t come into effect without either nerfing or reworking the current PDP.

MOA: 50 dmg bodyshot, 150 dmg headshot. So bodyshot damage reduced, but headshot multiplier brought from 2x to 3x to compensate it and increasing the skill ceiling of the sniper rifle.
Fel-ix: 64 dmg bodyshot, 160 dmg headshot. Bodyshot nerfed as well, but compensating with +2 headshot damage and bringing the headshot multiplier from 2x to 2.5x. Same reasoning as for the MOA, the difference being that should the Thunder HP be reverted to 160 in the future, the Fel-ix could one shot anyone but Rhino compared to MOA.

Other than shotguns, the bodyshots of these sniper rifles would still hit the hardest compared to the rest of the guns. So I think the change would definitely be noticeable, but not too much in my opinion. (Both guns would still gib a downed player in one shot.)

MOA would still two shot bodyshot any merc at a 100hp or less while Fel-ix could two shot bodyshot any merc at 120hp or less.

Beginners wouldn’t probably get as many lucky kills through bodyshots while the more experienced snipers shouldn’t really feel too much of a difference. (Having Vassili as my most played merc, I do feel dirty even when I accidentally hit a bodyshot as I try to avoid bodyshotting as much as I can, considering it’s current values.)

This should make a more noticeable difference between the two sniper rifles and I only considered the damage portion of the guns here.
The Fel-ix would become more forgiving if the shot happens to be a bodyshot, making it more beginner friendly I guess, but with an actually noticeable bodyshot difference MOA should become a tiny bit faster at taking shots in compensation.
A slight nerf to Fel-ix’s rate of fire would probably be the best, as I don’t think MOA deservers a rate of fire buff just to compete with Fel-ix’s bodyshot dps.

(I’m a little conflicted here as both sniper rifles already have a rather poor bodyshot dps and nerfing Fel-ix’s rate of fire to compensate it’s damage difference with MOA doesn’t feel fit. While also buffing MOA’s rate of fire would make the crazy good snipers even much more scarier than they already are.
So considering snipers being the high risk, high reward weapons, I guess it’s still better to try to balance them around headshots over bodyshots, in which case MOA’s 50 RPM is fine and Fel-ix should have it’s 46 RPM lowered to 40 RPM maybe?
So after all the changes this would actually be a nerf to both sniper rifles, but in my hopes it would be big enough of a nerf to justify bringing back jump sniping, raising the sniping skill ceiling even further, I mean why can shotgun bunnys take advantage of jump shooting and snipers can’t?)
(A little off topic now…
I can’t speak for the entire DB sniping community here, but jump sniping had such huge value literally at every range, but especially at close range where you could severely reduce the damage you took while preparing your shot as you were able to position yourself with a jump and then take the shot, compared to now where you’re limited to the ground just reacting and taking the best shot. While I don’t want sniping to get nerfed even further with my suggested changes, compensating it with jump sniping would be worth it in my opinion. And while I’m already off topic, just revert Vassili’s hp back to 100, he doesn’t really deserve the extra 10hp, especially comparing him to Aimee who’s at 90hp without machine pistols
.)

In the end MOA should still remain superior to Fel-ix with a 100% headshot accuracy.

I think this would actually make a difference between the battle of MOA vs Fel-ix. If this could be balanced well, I do believe that the higher skilled snipers would still risk the value of faster headshots over lower bodyshot damage, while the players newer to bolt action snipers wouldn’t probably take the risk and settle for the higher bodyshot damage.

Also these are just my initial values, if anyone finds this suggestion interesting I’d love to hear their opinions and values.

#BringBackJumpSniping, I’ts not too late!


(frostyvampire) #6

@Dracorion
Nerfing the bodyshot damage for bolt actions will do exactly the opposite of what we want, this will only make more people use auto snipers, to be honest, even I would then switch to PDP if this change happens, and I hate auto snipers.
Also the FEL-IX + SNITCH debuff let’s you bodyshot 100hp mercs because the 25% extra damage. I don’t think the bodyshot damage should be nerfed too much so 2 bodyshots can still kill most mercs, maybe even 69 damage to MOA and 70 damage to FEL-IX is good because then FEL-IX can 2 shot bodyshot Fragger but MOA can’t
Good snipers WILL feel the damage nerf because if Sawbonez decides to push you (but he’s still not too close yet so you don’t need to switch to your pistol), you can’t 2 shot bodyshot him with the MOA, and if you happen to miss the head because nobody has a 100% headshot accuracy, you won’t be able to make up for it by bodyshooting again

The values I’ve written don’t have to be the exact values that there should be, the main idea I wanted to point out is that PDP shouldn’t be a good gun and snipers should always use the bolt action.
But I do like the jump sniping idea, I miss it too. It would be nice to see MOA and FEL-IX able to jumpshot but it still won’t be enough to get PDP out of the game. I just don’t wanna see noob PDP snipers anymore.
Maybe they can make bolt action snipers have accurate jumpshots and keep the MOA damage as it is now, but for FEL-IX increase the headshot damage to 170 so it can 1 shot anyone but Rhino and insta-gib Aura and Sparks but in the cost of 0.1sec slower fire rate and to kill the PDP reduce PDP damage to 74 headshot and 37 bodyshot, so you need at least 2 hits to kill someone


(Drac0rion) #7

I specifically highlighted:

[quote=“Dracorion;187422”]
These values shouldn’t come into effect without either nerfing or reworking the current PDP.[/quote]
before presenting my idea…

I literally avoided bringing up the PDP cause it’s in a bad state, nerfing it a little too much and nobody would consider using it over the bolt actions. It’s just too similiar in effect to bolt action snipers as it currently is.
It can one shot 5 mercs and two shot nearly every other merc, assuming first or the second shot is a headshot.

Also a note on the Fel-ix + Snitch, with my values it’s 64+16=80 dmg, still one shot kill with a bodyshot, but now only limited to the squishiest mercs in the game.

Also while the bodyshot nerf would be noticeable, it’s not THAT much if you’re an experienced sniper your average accuracy in general with the sniper rifles is already at least over 50% and at least over a third of that 50% are headshots.
I can’t really state my sniper stats in DB as we don’t really see any stats other than xp/KD post game, but sniping in another game my scoped accuracy is usually at least 50%, in better games even over 70%. And of all the shots I hit, I definitely don’t have a 100% headshot accuracy, but I’m quite sure I have a much higher headshot accuracy compared to my bodyshot accuracy with the sniper rifles when it comes to DB.

Also why would I switch to my pistol over my primary just cause of close range? Bolt actions are risk/reward. If I hit that close range headshot I win, if it’s a bodyshot I’m supposed to be vulnerable, at that point I’m on plan B, try to survive long enough to pull out my secondary and try my luck at outshooting the enemy.

And for the reference for those who couldn’t be bothered to look up the FG42 I mentioned earlier. This is how I’d hope PDP rework would end up if we’d get it.

The gun has 15 damage per bullet(2x for headshot) and the HP on spawn in that game for a character is 120hp if I still remember correctly. My dream gun if it’d be balanced for DB.


(frostyvampire) #8

@Dracorion
I don’t use PDP either, when I was a noob and I got my first bronze Vassili card it was a PDP, so after 1 game I stopped using it and went back to my default card until I got another bronze Vassili with FEL-IX (I’m unlucky and I didn’t have a single MOA loadout for him until I got my cobalt). I just hate the idea of a sniper rifle that requires no skill to use

If someone pushes me, I try to headshot them too. If my shot misses the head, I switch to my pistol and spray them and if I’m ultra unlucky and run out of ammo, I knife them.
My accuracy with MOA is also ~50% and most of the shots are headshots, but I still get a lot of bodyshots, usually I don’t bother headshotting Auras and Sparks and I just bodyshot them and then spray with my machine pistol because they only have 5hp left then. And if I bodyshot someone on accident, I just try to get another bodyshot and nerfing bodyshot damage would remove the ability to do it.

Changing PDP to be like that FG42 (according to the video and you it does 15 damage and easy to control recoil) would actually be nice.
But 20 damage body, 40 damage head and the recoil of SCAR-20 in csgo (idk how to compare recoils really, I mean so it will be easy to control but not would actually be a good thing and I would love to see how it comes out


(Drac0rion) #9

That’s exactly why I’d prefer the bodyshots to be nerfed. To increase the skill ceiling.

Being on the other end of the barrel I simply don’t find it fair that I have to die to any sniper simply due to the merc I’m currently playing just cause of low hp and high bodyshot damage. Dying to headshots is completely acceptable as that actually requires skill if you can’t just pray and spray at head level.

Beginners simply can’t pull off the headshots and still get the kills while some more experienced players simply won’t even bother with headshotting just cause they know their limits.

It defeats the purpose of risk/reward if you don’t need to bother with headshotting.
And that’s what I love about DB, the high skill ceiling.

A game like… Dark Souls I guess, for a more modern example, doesn’t reduce the difficulty to appeal the casuals. People just need to “git gud” or give up.
Removing the jump sniping was the “give up” part for sniping by devs, that reduced the skill ceiling, as they didn’t really have a valid answer to justify the nerf.

Why would I even bother sniping in DB if my goal isn’t to go for the headshots?

One more change to drop the sniping skill ceiling and I guess I might as well become a shotgun bunny, tossing around my nuclear pancakes.


(frostyvampire) #10

@Dracorion
But if bodyshots for bolt action are nerfed, then PDP needs a massive nerf too.
If they nerf bodyshot damage, I expect a buff to headshots AND jumpshots back.
If you nerf their damage, I expect MOA to be 55 damage bodyshot and 160 damage headshot (insta gib on Aura/Sparks) and FEL-IX 65 damage bodyshot and 170 damage headshot (insta kill on Thunder) and jumpshots for both of these. And also if that happens, PDP needs to be nerfed to do 30 damage on bodyshot and 60 on headshot to keep it balanced.
I agree that sniping needs to be a high risk but high rewarding for skilled players but you still need to some times bodyshot people, if bodyshot damage becomes very low, a bodyshot might become the same as missing


(Drac0rion) #11

Yes, everyone knows that the PDP needs nerfs for months now. Grandeur however is still the most difficult gun to use in DB and even if it would get a decent ironsight, I really don’t see a reason to nerf it vs the bolt action rifles as it’s far less reliable and consistent.

The rest of the values I’m liking a lot more than what you suggested initially. Though I’m unsure about the PDP as I have no idea in which way the devs intend to nerf it. (Damage/RoF/spread/recoil/mag size, until there’s any information from the devs I’m not going to bother theorycrafting about this gun.)


(frostyvampire) #12

@Dracorion
Grandeur actually needs a buff, I wrote in my post to increase the headshot damage to 85 and reduce recoil spread and give it a better scope

For PDP, nerfing recoil/spread is useless as it’s already really bad, and reducing the clip size would be pointless as it already has low ammo amount but you can still spam it. Also fire rate seems perfect for it as it is now (at least to me) because it’s an auto sniper and should fire fast. The damage is the only thing that needs a nerf, making it unable to 1 shot could actually be a nice touch. Hope this is what SD does


(Herr_Hanz) #13

[quote=“FrostyVampire;187431”]@Dracorion
Maybe they can make bolt action snipers have accurate jumpshots and keep the MOA damage as it is now, but for FEL-IX increase the headshot damage to 170 so it can 1 shot anyone but Rhino and insta-gib Aura and Sparks but in the cost of 0.1sec slower fire rate and to kill the PDP reduce PDP damage to 74 headshot and 37 bodyshot, so you need at least 2 hits to kill someone[/quote]

This + give the felix the MOA scope and it will be my dream gun.

please do this SD/Nexon/Devs


(frostyvampire) #14

@Herr_Hanz
Why give it MOA scope? I actually like the different scopes on them because it gives them a different feel, and the fact MOA has a better scope is another thing that makes MOA better. We want them to be equal good and not one being better than the other. I even think that it should have even slower fire rate because else FEL-IX is a lot better. Or make MOA do 160 damage so it insta-gibs Aura and Sparks. But I think the scopes should stay as they are now


(Herr_Hanz) #15

@FrostyVampire

Because the scope is the only reason why i play with the MOA. i hate how the MOA looks, and the MOA having a higher fire rate is nice. but i know that i am better with the MOA scope than the FEL-IX scope, so i play with the MOA. just that fact that a scope can make a difference in what gun is better is already a bad thing.


(frostyvampire) #16

@Herr_Hanz
I know that the MOA has a better scope, but if FEL-IX gets buffed, it would be fair if MOA has a better scope because we don’t want the MOA to turn into “a bad FEL-IX”. We want to keep them balanced so 49% snipers use MOA, 49% use FEL-IX and 2% are noobs with PDP.
The different scopes make a lot of difference


(Equanimity) #17

There is such a thing as a balanced auto-sniper, ya know?


(Herr_Hanz) #18

@FrostyVampire

im all in for a buffed felix. but i want to get rid of the two different scopes. just the fact that a scope is used (by you, and maybe SD as well) as a balancing tool is ridiculous. balancing should be all around stats. not about pheripherals like scopes and iron sights.


(ProfPlump) #19

[quote=“FrostyVampire;30666”]When I hear the word “sniper” I always think about someone that can headshot and will rek anyone easily if they are good, or if they can’t aim they are useless and a waste of player slot.
MOA and FEL-IX are 2 snipers that actually do bring this but PDP ruins the entire point of it as it’s high rewarding and doesn’t require skill to use and Grandeur… Wait, can I call it a sniper even?

I really want to see something that will encourage people to use bolt action snipers over auto snipers, auto snipers should be nothing more but a practice for new snipers in pubs (unless you play Redeye)

I know that currently the headshot multiplier is 2x for all weapons, but I think it will be a nice touch if you increase it for only sniper rifles. Change them to this:
MOA SNPR-1: 45 damage on legshot, 70 damage on bodyshot, 175 damage on headshot
FEL-IX: 50 damage on legshots, 75 damage on bodyshot, 200 damage on headshot
PDP: 25 damage on legshots, 39 damage on bodyshots and 85 damage on headshot, increase spawn ammo capacity to 30 (2.5 clips), increase clip size to 12, slightly reduce the recoil to make it easier to control
Grandeur: 25 damage on legshots, 40 damage on bodyshot and 85 damage on headshot, reduce the no-scope spread, give it a better iron sight (maybe a mini scope can be nice)

This will encourage people to play with bolt action snipers because headshots will kill any merc in a single headshot (except Rhino which can only be 1 shot with the FEL-IX but not MOA) and will also insta-gib a lot of mercs. Also this will make people stop calling the FEL-IX “a bad MOA” because it will be able to gib more mercs and 1 shot kill a full hp Rhino (without Tryhard perk).
Auto snipers will still be able to 1 shot Aura or Sparks and 2 shot any merc that isn’t Rhino. PDP still won’t require much skill to use but you get a heavy punishment for using it due to the lack of damage if you can’t headshot, so any good sniper will know that bolt action is almost always better
Aimee will still be able to 1 shot bodyshot 90hp debuffed mercs with the FEL-IX and kill anyone up to Phoenix with a PDP/Grandeur headshot (if they are debuffed)

The main point of this is to make you rewarded even more for being a good sniper and to make snipers that can’t aim barely get kills regardless of their weapon. Being a sniper requires you to have a good aim, if you don’t have that aim, you shouldn’t play it[/quote]

The PDP requires you to expose yourself for MUCH longer while your are shooting, while the MOA/FEL-IX allow you to peek, shoot, and return to cover while giving your opponents zero chance to deal substantial damage (you’re shooting 75/79 damage at them in that short moment of peeking, while they can probably only fire about 3 or so bullets at you from an Assault Rifle, which at range is probably around 50 damage IF they all hit).

And anyway, a Stark can kill a PDP user quite easily (unless they’re at EXTREME long range, such as the longest distances down the riverbed on Trainyard).


(frostyvampire) #20

@ProfPlump
I never said PDP is hard to kill, I myself hate this gun and will never use it unless I’m trolling on a pub which isn’t often. My problem with PDP is that it’s a noskill sniper and people who play sniper shouldn’t use it. It should be a weapon that is used for snipers under level 10 to train at headshotting and then once they reach level 10 start using an actual sniper after they already know how to headshot and get all the kills