SMG-9

[Terminal_6]

I think 9 mm, not 9 in the list

That’s not the point, it’s a generic name on a generic gun. Can’t expect everyone who looks at it to be excited by the caliber. Not that I’m sure why you’d be excited about 9mm.

[watsyurdeal]

Or how about the M4, MoA, Hollunds, there’s plenty of lame names, it’s all purely subjective.

[Terminal_6]

lol and those names all seem fine to me. So, yeah, it’s subjective. Not that big a deal, though. I just see a pretty big difference in the “nomenclature” from all the other guns to the SMG-9.

[JJMAJR]

[quote=“JJMAJR;214641”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;214626”]I say we reduce the rpm to 600, and increase damage to 13. Dps is still sround the same, and what happens is it requires one less headshot to down phoneix. Not much of a differene for some, but it may be enough to get some people using it.

130 DPS.

Don’t you think that’s a bit much?[/quote]

The Crotzni has 132…you were saying?

Really we need to reduce rpm even more, to 590. That way the dps stays in line with everything else.

Heck if you want to be technical

Blishok: 126
SMG 9: 130
Crotzni: 132
KEK 10: 132
Hochfir: 126
[/quote]

Blishlock has a fire delay of 0.15s with 18 damage, leading to 120 DPS.
The Crotzni is supposed to be on par with the KEK-10, but has a fire delay of 0.092 and therefore 130 DPS.
The KEK-10 has a fire delay of 0.85s which leads to a DPS of 129.
The Hochfir has a fire delay of 0.072s, which leaves it with 125 DPS.

After looking at the SMG-9’s fire delay, I came to the conclusion that it has the same DPS as the Hochfir with a fire delay of 0.096s.

I would really like the DB wiki to state the fire delay for weapons instead of giving BS RPM numbers.

[quote=“Terminal_6;214647”]Anyone up for changing the name of the gun? If you’ve been playing for several hundred hours like most of us in this thread have, it’s probably the smallest deal. But from the noob point of view, would you rather have a gun that sounds like the ninth in a list or a gun with an actual name?
I don’t actually dislike the SMG-9, but I want to be less generic in look/sound/feel at the very least.[/quote]

I’d like to have a game where each weapon is actually unique instead of having MP5/UMP/MP5K being clumped together.

I mean, I want a Uzi to go with my desert eagle.

[Sorotia]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;214626”]I say we reduce the rpm to 600, and increase damage to 13. Dps is still sround the same, and what happens is it requires one less headshot to down phoneix. Not much of a differene for some, but it may be enough to get some people using it.

130 DPS.

Don’t you think that’s a bit much?[/quote]

Think you’re just worried about your precious Hochfir…oh I’m sorry…your precious Blishlock being not as powerful?

When will people realize DPS isn’t everything…you can kill people in a split second with a 128 dps weapon or a 132 dps if you know what you’re doing and have good aim.

@Watsyurdeal has a good idea and I personally would love to see it happen…just a matter of if the devs will listen or even look but I doubt they will.

[JJMAJR]

[quote=“Sorotia;214698”]Think you’re just worried about your precious Hochfir…oh I’m sorry…your precious Blishlock being not as powerful?

When will people realize DPS isn’t everything…you can kill people in a split second with a 128 dps weapon or a 132 dps if you know what you’re doing and have good aim.

@Watsyurdeal has a good idea and I personally would love to see it happen…just a matter of if the devs will listen or even look but I doubt they will.[/quote]

If the SMG-9 gets 130 DPS then it would surpass the KEK-10.

I mean, Bushwhacker’s SMG-9 build has better perks than the KEK-10 but still has worse perks than the Blishlock, because Steady/Cool > Bomb Squad/Looter > Focus/Spares.

The SMG-9 getting better TTK than the KEK-10 would make the KEK-10 useless.

[watsyurdeal]

SMG 9 with my propsal, 590 rpm and 13 damage

TTK to head: 0.3-0.51

Kek 10, 700 rpm, 11 damage

TTK to head: 0.26-0.52

[ostmustis]

if they want to buff the smg9 I want it to have lower spread :>

[JJMAJR]

Alright, this little chart below is for my sake and not anyone else’s.
[spoiler]SMGs
SMG-9 (JJMAJR’s idea)
15 damage @ 0.12 fire delay
80-90 = 0.36s
100-120 = 0.48s
140 = 0.6s
180 = 0.72s
200 = 0.94s

SMG-9 (Watsyurdeal’s idea)
13 damage @ 0.102s fire delay
80-100 = 0.408s
110-120 = 0.51s
140 = 0.612s
180 = 0.714s
200 = 0.816s

So my idea would make the SMG-9 more powerful against more of the cast than Watsyurdeal’s. Now to compare it to the KEK-10, Blishlock, and the Hochfir.

KEK-10
11 damage @ 0.085s fire delay
80 = 0.34s
90-110 = 0.425s
120 = 0.51s
140 = 0.595s
180 = 0.765s
200 = 0.85s

Blishlock
18 damage @ 0.15s fire delay
80-100 = 0.45s
110-140 = 0.6s
180 = 0.75s
200 = 0.9s

Hochfir
9 damage @ 0.072s fire delay
80-90 = 0.36s
100-110 = 0.432s
120 = 0.504s (ah crap)
140 = 0.576s (again)
180 = 0.72 (again)
200 = 0.864s

SMG-9/Crotzni
12 damage
80-90 4 shots (0.384s, 0.
100-120 5 shots (0.48s, 0.
140 6 shots (0.576s, 0.
180 8 shots (0.768s, 0.
200 9 shots (0.864s, 0.

The KEK-10 becomes weaker against Phoenix than W’s SMG-9 but doesn’t have this drawback against my SMG-9. However it’s also weaker against Skyhammer in regards to my idea while it’s an equal against W’s in that situation. Against >120HP my SMG-9 is straight up inferior while Watsyurdeal’s is able to beat the KEK-10 regarding Thunder/Rhino.

The Blishlock is supposed to be inferior. My SMG-9 is stronger against 80-120 HP targets as intended but the same should be said about W’s SMG-9. Against 140 HP targets my weapon is an equal while W’s is worse. Thunder is actually weaker against the Blishlock than all other weapons mentioned here, which is rather interesting.

But since 120HP is a bit of a standard, (I did say the stats I given before were insane) my SMG-9 is overpowered. In fact it would be nice if the Crotzni was updated to be like this instead, but with a fire delay of 0.115s.

Well I saw a red flag in regards to the Hochfir. I didn’t think so before but now I know it is overpowered. You see this is a better way to argue for a Hochfir nerf than just spewing “OMG IT’S OVERPOWERED BECAUSE SCRUBS PLZ NERF!”.[/spoiler]

Watsyurdeal’s revised idea (because I told him exactly why I don’t think the SMG-9 should have 130 DPS) is more favorable in regards to balancing the weapon’s TTK. I still think the reload speed of the SMG-9 is too long and the Hochfir too short.

If the Hochfir had 1.9s reload time while the SMG-9 had 1.5 AKA the fastest primary reload time, on top of increased damage w 0.102s fire delay, I think that should be significant enough to balance both weapons out.

And then I checked Hochfir TTK and changed my mind. I don’t think the buffs should simply be reverted (because we’d be back at square one) but preventing the Hochfir from nuking 120 HP classes should be a major priority. Since the SMG-9 is still weaker than the KEK-10 WAIT A MINUTE…

[GatoCommodore]

yknow @JJMAJR ? the thought of the Dev wont even touch hochfir and MOA because its pubbers favourite really kills the mood when playing

i bet they wont even touch those gun even in next update.

[JJMAJR]

I checked the TTK of the current SMG-9.
It’s also stronger than the KEK-10 in regards to killing 120-140 HP classes.

Which kind of means that the gun at fault here is the KEK-10, not the Hochfir.

Dang…

[watsyurdeal]

Its all about feel, personally my favorite gun is the grandeur, those headshots…MMMMMMMMM

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“JJMAJR;214748”]I checked the TTK of the current SMG-9.
It’s also stronger than the KEK-10 in regards to killing 120-140 HP classes.

Which kind of means that the gun at fault here is the KEK-10, not the Hochfir.

Dang…[/quote]

i always use smg9 bushwhacker because its the only non lead cards of bush that i have.
but i still prefer kek 10 over smg9 any day.

[Szakalot]

smg9 is definitely a bit weaker than crotzni/kek, but it has one redeeming quality - more aimpunch then those two. not as annoying as hochfir but still can throw your opponent off your head

[Eox]

smg9 is definitely a bit weaker than crotzni/kek, but it has one redeeming quality - more aimpunch then those two. not as annoying as hochfir but still can throw your opponent off your head

I never noticed that. Aimpunch strenght should figure as a stat on each weapons in the game.

[GatoCommodore]

Wouldnt more stable weapon automatically have better aimpunch?

for example M4 constantly hitting a guy with no aim break off would the guy gets constant aimpunch?

[Szakalot]

[quote=“sweetColumn;215049”]Wouldnt more stable weapon automatically have better aimpunch?

for example M4 constantly hitting a guy with no aim break off would the guy gets constant aimpunch?[/quote]

first question : no

second question: i dont understand it

[Dawnlazy]

If I understand correctly, aimpunch is based off of damage, so a weapon like the Hochfir causes lesser kicks but does so more frequently, whereas the Blishlok will cause noticeably higher kicks but at a greater interval. So it wouldn’t really make sense for the SMG-9 to cause more aimpunch than the Crotzni since they do the same damage but the SMG-9 shoots at a slower pace.

[Szakalot]

If I understand correctly, aimpunch is based off of damage, so a weapon like the Hochfir causes lesser kicks but does so more frequently, whereas the Blishlok will cause noticeably higher kicks but at a greater interval. So it wouldn’t really make sense for the SMG-9 to cause more aimpunch than the Crotzni since they do the same damage but the SMG-9 shoots at a slower pace.

hmm, i like this explanation.

On the other hand, aimpunch from getting hit with empire9 never felt significant, compared to hochfir, and its an even faster RoF gun.

Whether the punchiness does not scale linearly, or there is a minimum annoyance threshold below which aimpunch is easily ignored, remains to be tested.

It could also be that the more accurate SMG9 allows player to keep hitting you consecutively, makin the aimpunch more annoying than a sporadic headshot with crotzni, dunno

[Indefinite]

[quote=“Szakalot;c-215089”]
It could also be that the more accurate SMG9 allows player to keep hitting you consecutively, makin the aimpunch more annoying than a sporadic headshot with crotzni, dunno[/quote]
This is the SMG9’s strength over the Crotzni. It’s not subjective either. It’s distinctly noticeable that the cone of fire of the SMG9 after 4-6 shots is tighter vs the Crotzni.
IMO, Crotzni is only specifically better if you have compliant targets who are not manuevering and doing things like standing still or missing a lot.
SMG9 is fine. Give it an extra magazine in spares pool and it’s more than fine.