SMG-9

(JJMAJR) #1

And I thought the Blishlock and the Hochfir are niche…
But the SMG-9? Complete trash. Lowest SMG DPS besides Blishlock now that I looked at it again.
And here I was advocating the Hochfir to be turned into an SMG-M4A1, with predictable spread pattern.
I mean, ouch.

Both the Hochfir and the SMG-9 need something to make them comparable to the Blishlock. I mean, Nader’s relying on the Crotzni in order to work out at this point.

At least if the SMG-9 was turned into a burst-fire it would merely be like having an S&W primary, and not a better Grandeur. Ehh…

(GatoCommodore) #2

[quote=“JJMAJR;32911”]And I thought the Blishlock and the Hochfir are niche…
But the SMG-9? Complete trash. Lowest SMG DPS besides Blishlock now that I looked at it again.
And here I was advocating the Hochfir to be turned into an SMG-M4A1, with predictable spread pattern.
I mean, ouch.

Both the Hochfir and the SMG-9 need something to make them comparable to the Blishlock. I mean, Nader’s relying on the Crotzni in order to work out at this point.

At least if the SMG-9 was turned into a burst-fire it would merely be like having an S&W primary, and not a better Grandeur. Ehh…[/quote]

but i love SMG-9!
the myth is that SMG-9 has the biggest aimpunch

(Eox) #3

This is why the recent hochfir buff always bothered me. Right now, it feels superior than SMG-9 on every point but ammo efficiency, and ammo efficiency isn’t really an issue since there’s likely a support doing his job around (unless you play in one of those low level servers where everyone is a bit clueless).

While I love SMG-9, I don’t see the point about using it when KEK-10 or Hochfir are available, unless I really like the augments available. It’s the case for Nader’s SM41 loadout. Springy, Unshakeable and Bigger Blast : I love those three, so I don’t think I would switch. It does not mean that there’s no issue though, in my opinion.

What I suggest is to bump SMG-9’s damage per bullet from 12 to 13 and tune down RPM accordingly so SMG-9 would en up with a DPS around 126. This might turn SMG-9 into a nice middle ground between KEK-10 and Hochfir SMG IMO.

(Dr_Plantboss) #4

I play for fun, and I personally just enjoy the feel of the SMG-9. Sure, it’s probably worse than the Blishlok (which is not as bad as people say it is), sure, it’s like a crappy M4A1, sure it is probably the worst choice on the mercs that can use it…
BUT IT’S FUN
That’s all that matters to me.

(Dawnlazy) #5

Why do you care about 2 DPS or whatever? SMG-9 is great because it has next to zero recoil and a pretty tight rate of spread increase. The only problem is that it and the Crotzni are too similar to each other, IMO SMG-9 >>> Crotzni because a tiny DPS increase isn’t worth sacrificing accuracy at range, same reason I always pick M4 over Timik. They just need to change some stats for either the SMG-9 or the Crotzni to make them feel more different from each oter.

(GatoCommodore) #6

#reverseHochfirBuff
#SaveTheSMG

Dont let Big Mean Crotzni shaming who SMG-9 Are.

(JJMAJR) #7

The reason why DPS matters more than accuracy is because of damage dropoff. Assault rifles as a whole have better range than SMGs, and SMGs usually have better mobility to compensate for the range loss.

I do think however that the Hochfir shouldn’t be nerfed because the SMG-9 is garbage now. The weapons being garbage is a problem with both guns.

I don’t think that the Hochfir or the SMG-9 is anywhere close to the Blishlock yet. And the Blishlock is nowhere close to the KEK-10 or the Crotzni, but it’s not in a really bad spot for a weapon that’s supposed to be a lower tier in comparison.

Also, nerfing the Hochfir wouldn’t change where the Crotzni is compared to the SMG-9.

[spoiler]In my opinion, the things that need to be done to all three weapons goes as follows:

  1. Increase Blishlock range to 23m.
  2. Increase SMG-9/Hochfir mobility to equal shotguns.
  3. SMG-9 spread should be predictable.
  4. SMG-9 should have the same reload time as the Blishlock or Hochfir.

As a side note, I think the Timik-47 needs a buff too, at least to mobility and damage per bullet. But I’ll look for another thread for that later.[/spoiler]

(Dawnlazy) #8

All SMGs have bad damage falloff, it’s exactly why accuracy matters more. Hitting more shots > having 3 more DPS or w/e which is never gonna matter.

(Drac0rion) #9

Have to agree with @Dawnrazor here. Hitting 1 more shot than Crotzni at medium range due to spread already wins the battle as the dps of both weapons are too similar. At close range, sure, Crotzi is the best smg, but overall, it has it’s flaws not to be the nr.1 go to smg for everyone.

[quote=“sweetColumn;209148”]
but i love SMG-9!
the myth is that SMG-9 has the biggest aimpunch[/quote]

iirc correctly, the highest RPM automatics have the biggest aimpunch.
SMG-9 seems like an extremely mediocre gun, but it’s reliable in every situation.

(BananaSlug) #10

for me all smg are garbage compared to AR’s, thats why i dont play mrcs with smg
but when i want to play with smg i never use hohfire and crotzini, smg9 is smaller version of m4,
steady, accurate, fine dmg, and rof

(Eox) #11

[quote=“BananaSlug;209252”]for me all smg are garbage compared to AR’s, thats why i dont play mrcs with smg
but when i want to play with smg i never use hohfire and crotzini, smg9 is smaller version of m4,
steady, accurate, fine dmg, and rof[/quote]

It’s still better than a shotgun from a competitive point of view. You are not hindered by lack of range.

(JJMAJR) #12

[quote=“BananaSlug;209252”]for me all smg are garbage compared to AR’s, thats why i dont play mrcs with smg
but when i want to play with smg i never use hohfire and crotzini, smg9 is smaller version of m4,
steady, accurate, fine dmg, and rof[/quote]

I know that there’s a tier system in DB surrounding weapons in this game.

The highest tier at the moment is the burst rifles. Highest DPS, and if you land every shot (if you’re good, you will) it’s an instant kill for light characters.

The next highest tier is the sniper rifles. Better at instant kills than burst rifles, but less DPS.

Then M4A1/Timik-47/Dreiss.
Then LMGs.
Then KEK-10/Crotzni.
Then Blishlock/Hochfir/SMG-9.
Then shotguns.
Then sidearms.

Even the sidearms have tiers.
MPs. (Tolen/MP-400)
S&W/Simeon/M9
DE.50/HK MK 23
Empire-9/Caulden

I’m sorry, but I don’t honestly see the accuracy of the SMG-9 here. To me the spread blooms really quickly.

(Sorotia) #13

[quote=“sweetColumn;209176”]#reverseHochfirBuff
#SaveTheSMG

Dont let Big Mean Crotzni shaming who SMG-9 Are.[/quote]

Here here, for my precious!

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/273966904472253398/D861C255B7BDA6B30D2C8EE8D7F20FECA89A8994/

Lets face it…they buffed the Hoch for the pub scrubs who love Proxy…game just super slowly becomes more and more casual.

(JJMAJR) #14

The Hochfir was a seriously weak joke of a weapon before that doesn’t pull weight.

Proxy just wouldn’t do anything with the Hochfir being that weak. At least now it could be a considerable competitor to the Blishlock… I mean, it could but…

Nonetheless, to say that “Hochfir was buffed because Proxy nubs” is pretty biased. A shotgun was better than that piece of garbage. And shotguns are pretty bad in themselves.

(GatoCommodore) #15

[quote=“JJMAJR;209372”]The Hochfir was a seriously weak joke of a weapon before that doesn’t pull weight.

Proxy just wouldn’t do anything with the Hochfir being that weak. At least now it could be a considerable competitor to the Blishlock… I mean, it could but…

Nonetheless, to say that “Hochfir was buffed because Proxy nubs” is pretty biased. A shotgun was better than that piece of garbage. And shotguns are pretty bad in themselves.[/quote]

hochfir already good at melting heads even before the buff.
strafing right and left while holding hochfir can throw people off and plus proxy hitbox is prett small it will be really hard to hit if you jump on the walls.

(JJMAJR) #16

Hochfir was terrible.

Sure, it was good because it’s accurate and granted a lot of mobility, but it’s not as good as having a Blishlock. Blishlock has better burst damage and killed more dangerous targets faster than the Hochfir ever could.

Plus, it had better range, and being able to dodge shots is less important unless we are talking about taking down a sniper.

In that respect, it’s better to go Fletcher/Blishlock, Kira, or Aura/Blishlock if one doesn’t want to snipe. Blishlock has the same mobility after all.

At least with the recent buff the Hochfir could compete against the Blishlock in SMG range fights.

(sonsofaugust5) #17

blishlock “lowest dps” blish is amazing. best range easily and damage. smg9 over hochfir anyday. Hochfir has garbage dropoff damage. You might as well use a shotgun. smg9 just has less dps than crotz, which makes crotz a better choice if you can control the random spread the crotz has by taking breaks in your auto fire at range.

(Dr_Plantboss) #18

When it comes to SMGs, this is my order for effectiveness:

  1. Crotzni
  2. Hochfir
  3. Blishlok
  4. KEK-10
  5. SMG-9

Yes, I know you disagree @JJMAJR

Here’s my list of favorites:

  1. SMG-9
  2. Hochfir
  3. Blishlok
  4. Crotzni
  5. KEK-10

The reason I hate the KEK-10 is because I suck with it. It’s not a bad weapon.

I made a graph actually, and here it is:

[center]http://s21.postimg.org/p4b3zti87/gungraph.png
[/center]

Alright, I am done poisoning the world with my ideas that nobody agrees with.

(JJMAJR) #19

The KEK-10 is an amazing weapon. Its spread is good enough to melt faces in medium and close range. It’s a medley of the Crotzni and the SMG-9, but not acquiring any of their weaknesses in exchange for reduced burst damage and recently, reload speed.

Meanwhile, the SMG-9 seems to acquire the weaknesses of both the KEK-10 and the Hochfir - reload speed and low DPS.

Crotzni is amazing for people who know how to control spread. Its spread is as easily controlled as a burst rifle, and burst rifles are the highest tier weapons in the game. Why? Those weapons, in a skilled player’s hands, consistently one-burst enemies to the ground.

They make Phoenix unusable compared to Sawbonez.

If someone can use a burst rifle to nuke Phoenix, they can control the Crotzni.

I just think that the SMG-9 needs something to differentiate it from the other SMGs.

(Sorotia) #20

[quote=“JJMAJR;209424”]Hochfir was terrible.

Sure, it was good because it’s accurate and granted a lot of mobility, but it’s not as good as having a Blishlock. Blishlock has better burst damage and killed more dangerous targets faster than the Hochfir ever could.

Plus, it had better range, and being able to dodge shots is less important unless we are talking about taking down a sniper.

In that respect, it’s better to go Fletcher/Blishlock, Kira, or Aura/Blishlock if one doesn’t want to snipe. Blishlock has the same mobility after all.

At least with the recent buff the Hochfir could compete against the Blishlock in SMG range fights.[/quote]

“sighs”

Why do people judge everything on damage or DPS?

The Hoch has laser accuracy…if you lock on someones head and have decent control you can peg your target with headshots easy.

It amazes me how some people just judge weapons by word of mouth.

Lots of people said the Blish sucks…even after changes were made…now all the sudden it’s a decent weapon…but people said it sucked…now it’s decent…and it’s been a while since it has gone through any major changes.

Just because someone told you the Hoch sucks doesn’t mean it does.

Before the change…the Hoch had it’s own…it’s own niche…now it’s just flat out superior to the SMG-9.

The Blish was a slow firing but heavy damaging
The Crot was a good all around gun
The Kek was similar to the Crot but it had a little less damage but it had faster fire rate
The SMG was accurate while slower but with decent damage
The Hoch was fast with low damage

Now the Hoch’s speed negates the SMG…its speed and accuracy both blow the SMG out of the water…

Other than damage itself the Hoch outclasses the SMG-9 in every way…from fire rate, to accuracy, reload time, and even have the same range.

The Hoch was fine…it was in a better place than the SMG-9 was…yet they buffed it and said screw the SMG-9. People generally take the Crot over the SMG-9…yet we buff the Hoch?

Who uses the Hoch? Mostly Proxy…who keeps getting buffs because pub scrubs love her? Proxy…

Who has insane mines that love to bug through walls but never seem to be targets for a bug fix? Proxy…

Who’s explosives get nerfed while someone elses explosives don’t even get looked at? Proxy again…

So yeah…not much of a doubt in my mind they buff the beloved pub scrub merc…because so many pub scrubs love her.