SMG-9 Needs an update, the most useless gun the the game.

(Advanced) #1

I’m done using this gun. I got my very 1st Gold Loadout with it on my Medic with 20% supplies and Get Up.

I’ve been using it for over a month now, just switched to the Crotzni… Difference is night and day.

SMG-9 is harder to control (And thus not accurate/consistent at any decent range), has less range overall and has slower fire rate than the Crotzni. It is worse than every way and there is no reason to use a loadout other than CR73 Companion Operative, none. That isn’t balance or preference or anything, the gun is just flat out worse, to the point where the gun is a limiting factor in how well a player can actually play ingame.

If you’re doing 5v5 team vs team, you are not going to have a SMG-9 equipped, you will get outgunned in every duel, making any sort of “preference” in perks completely useless. If you’re dead, you’re not using your preferences.

Balance this, give it something to shine. Because right now there is 0 reason to be using a SMG loadout with a SMG-9 equipped. It is by far the worst guns I have used in this game, by far.

(KangaJoo) #2

[quote=“Advanced;11787”]I’m done using this gun. I got my very 1st Gold Loadout with it on my Medic with 20% supplies and Get Up.

I’ve been using it for over a month now, just switched to the Crotzni… Difference is night and day.

SMG-9 is harder to control (And thus not accurate/consistent at any decent range), has less range overall and has slower fire rate than the Crotzni. It is worse than every way and there is no reason to use a loadout other than CR73 Companion Operative, none. That isn’t balance or preference or anything, the gun is just flat out worse, to the point where the gun is a limiting factor in how well a player can actually play ingame.

If you’re doing 5v5 team vs team, you are not going to have a SMG-9 equipped, you will get outgunned in every duel, making any sort of “preference” in perks completely useless. If you’re dead, you’re not using your preferences.

Balance this, give it something to shine. Because right now there is 0 reason to be using a SMG loadout with a SMG-9 equipped. It is by far the worst guns I have used in this game, by far.[/quote]
As far as I know, the SMG-9 has less recoil, better spread, and a slightly higher ROF than the crotzni. The actual TTK of the SMG-9 does end up being a bit lower than the crotzni, though, and the accuracy of the crotzni is almost as good as the SMG-9 so it’s pretty much better in all situations.

If you think the smg-9 is bad just wait until you try the blishlok. Now that they nerfed it, it has worse accuracy, TTK, reload times, and ROF than every other smg in the game. #balanced

(Szakalot) #3

Big accuracy buff for SMG9 would be nice.

(Advanced) #4

[quote=“ChinaRep;27506”]
As far as I know, the SMG-9 has less recoil, better spread, and a slightly higher ROF than the crotzni. The actual TTK of the SMG-9 does end up being a bit lower than the crotzni, though, and the accuracy of the crotzni is almost as good as the SMG-9 so it’s pretty much better in all situations.

If you think the smg-9 is bad just wait until you try the blishlok. Now that they nerfed it, it has worse accuracy, TTK, reload times, and ROF than every other smg in the game. #balanced[/quote]

You’re wrong. Crotzni has higher RoF and has way easier to manage recoil (To me.) at any distance. I’m not sure where to check accuracy stats, but if there is any difference it’s little to none.

SMG-9 has no reason to be used (And thus why you don’t see it used in competitive.)

(Gi.Am) #5

The SMG-9 has higher accuracy then the crotzni. There is also not much to buff here imo the smg-9 pretty much is pin point accurate, already with ADS you can introduce aimpunch in a sniper all day long.
If you want to balance them out more imo you either make the crotzni a bit harder to use (slight stability decrease) or give the SMG-9 a bit of quality upgrade (faster reload or maybe a bit more bullets small things).

(omegaskorpion) #6

The SMG-9 is pretty much a nerfed crotzni, Crotzni is more accurate and has faster fire rate, but has more recoil that does not realy impact the use at all.

While the SMG-9 has less recoil it does not realy help when the accurazy is bad, aim croschair to head and fire the hole mag with only 1/3 shots landing in the head.

The SMG-9 and Crotzni are supposed to be just like M4A1 and TIMIK, But the difference is that Crotzni does not have enough recoil and SMG-9 ins’t accutate as it is suppose to be.

(Szakalot) #7

[quote=“Gi.Am;27595”]The SMG-9 has higher accuracy then the crotzni. There is also not much to buff here imo the smg-9 pretty much is pin point accurate, already with ADS you can introduce aimpunch in a sniper all day long.
If you want to balance them out more imo you either make the crotzni a bit harder to use (slight stability decrease) or give the SMG-9 a bit of quality upgrade (faster reload or maybe a bit more bullets small things).[/quote]

ADS accuracy is irrelevant imo, since almost all weapons are pin-point accurate with ADS.

SMG9 definitely loses accuracy in prolonged sprays, if it had accuracy closer to that of M4 people might actually pick it over Crotzni.

(KangaJoo) #8

[quote=“Advanced;27564”][quote=“ChinaRep;27506”]
As far as I know, the SMG-9 has less recoil, better spread, and a slightly higher ROF than the crotzni. The actual TTK of the SMG-9 does end up being a bit lower than the crotzni, though, and the accuracy of the crotzni is almost as good as the SMG-9 so it’s pretty much better in all situations.

If you think the smg-9 is bad just wait until you try the blishlok. Now that they nerfed it, it has worse accuracy, TTK, reload times, and ROF than every other smg in the game. #balanced[/quote]

You’re wrong. Crotzni has higher RoF and has way easier to manage recoil (To me.) at any distance. I’m not sure where to check accuracy stats, but if there is any difference it’s little to none.

SMG-9 has no reason to be used (And thus why you don’t see it used in competitive.)[/quote]
Oh yeah you’re right the RoF of the crotzni is a bit higher. And I never said the SMG-9 was useful, I always use crotzni with sawbonez, but I was just saying there are some redeeming qualities to it. It is more accurate but that accuracy doesn’t really matter in most situations and more importantly the title of this thread says that the smg-9 is the most useless gun in the game but that title should really go to the blishlok.

(Advanced) #9

Ehh… I actually prefer the Blishlock over the SMG-9 as well, the slower rate of fire but higher damage suits my playstyle. I didn’t know it was considered so bad? What makes it worse in your opinion?

(KangaJoo) #10

[quote=“Advanced;27816”][quote=“ChinaRep;27790”]
Oh yeah you’re right the RoF of the crotzni is a bit higher. And I never said the SMG-9 was useful, I always use crotzni with sawbonez, but I was just saying there are some redeeming qualities to it. It is more accurate but that accuracy doesn’t really matter in most situations and more importantly the title of this thread says that the smg-9 is the most useless gun in the game but that title should really go to the blishlok.
[/quote]

Ehh… I actually prefer the Blishlock over the SMG-9 as well, the slower rate of fire but higher damage suits my playstyle. I didn’t know it was considered so bad? What makes it worse in your opinion?
[/quote]

It has the longest TTK out of all the smg’s in the game at all ranges. In fact, it’s particularly bad at long range, despite having actual sights, because it’s spread increase is so high. Speaking of which, it has the highest spread increase out of all the smg’s and also the lowest RoF out of all the smg’s which makes it slightly harder to track people that are ADAD’ing. Usually guns with low RoF and high damage are supposed to have slightly lower TTKs than guns with high RoFs since they require more precise aim but for some reason the devs chose not to do that. Maybe they didn’t want to make the blishlok too effective because shotgun classes have access to it too.

(omegaskorpion) #11

[quote=“ChinaRep;27856”][quote=“Advanced;27816”][quote=“ChinaRep;27790”]
Oh yeah you’re right the RoF of the crotzni is a bit higher. And I never said the SMG-9 was useful, I always use crotzni with sawbonez, but I was just saying there are some redeeming qualities to it. It is more accurate but that accuracy doesn’t really matter in most situations and more importantly the title of this thread says that the smg-9 is the most useless gun in the game but that title should really go to the blishlok.
[/quote]

Ehh… I actually prefer the Blishlock over the SMG-9 as well, the slower rate of fire but higher damage suits my playstyle. I didn’t know it was considered so bad? What makes it worse in your opinion?
[/quote]

It has the longest TTK out of all the smg’s in the game at all ranges. In fact, it’s particularly bad at long range, despite having actual sights, because it’s spread increase is so high. Speaking of which, it has the highest spread increase out of all the smg’s and also the lowest RoF out of all the smg’s which makes it slightly harder to track people that are ADAD’ing. Usually guns with low RoF and high damage are supposed to have slightly lower TTKs than guns with high RoFs since they require more precise aim but for some reason the devs chose not to do that. Maybe they didn’t want to make the blishlok too effective because shotgun classes have access to it too.[/quote]

There have been enough damage tests on the move that are saying that Blishlock has the 3best TTK rate, yes its slow but that 18 damage does bring it up. SMG-9 in the other hand had (if i am right) the worst time to kill (or second).

Also about the whole range thing. Blishlock is particaly good at range and the recoil isnt too hard to controll, it just that other smg:s have pretty low recoil and are always easy to use so they are also easier to use in range, they however suffer more damage drop off than Blishlock. Also the SMG-9 feels to be the worst smg for range, the low damage gets even lower on range and accurazy suffers extreamly badly. crotzni has more range and better accuracy so its more usable and one of the best smg. SMG-9 does not realy have any redeeming factors to it.

(KangaJoo) #12

[quote=“omegaskorpion;27899”][quote=“ChinaRep;27856”][quote=“Advanced;27816”][quote=“ChinaRep;27790”]
Oh yeah you’re right the RoF of the crotzni is a bit higher. And I never said the SMG-9 was useful, I always use crotzni with sawbonez, but I was just saying there are some redeeming qualities to it. It is more accurate but that accuracy doesn’t really matter in most situations and more importantly the title of this thread says that the smg-9 is the most useless gun in the game but that title should really go to the blishlok.
[/quote]

Ehh… I actually prefer the Blishlock over the SMG-9 as well, the slower rate of fire but higher damage suits my playstyle. I didn’t know it was considered so bad? What makes it worse in your opinion?
[/quote]

It has the longest TTK out of all the smg’s in the game at all ranges. In fact, it’s particularly bad at long range, despite having actual sights, because it’s spread increase is so high. Speaking of which, it has the highest spread increase out of all the smg’s and also the lowest RoF out of all the smg’s which makes it slightly harder to track people that are ADAD’ing. Usually guns with low RoF and high damage are supposed to have slightly lower TTKs than guns with high RoFs since they require more precise aim but for some reason the devs chose not to do that. Maybe they didn’t want to make the blishlok too effective because shotgun classes have access to it too.[/quote]

There have been enough damage tests on the move that are saying that Blishlock has the 3best TTK rate, yes its slow but that 18 damage does bring it up. SMG-9 in the other hand had (if i am right) the worst time to kill (or second).

Also about the whole range thing. Blishlock is particaly good at range and the recoil isnt too hard to controll, it just that other smg:s have pretty low recoil and are always easy to use so they are also easier to use in range, they however suffer more damage drop off than Blishlock. Also the SMG-9 feels to be the worst smg for range, the low damage gets even lower on range and accurazy suffers extreamly badly. crotzni has more range and better accuracy so its more usable and one of the best smg. SMG-9 does not realy have any redeeming factors to it.
[/quote]

The recoil for every gun in this game is practically non-existent. The blishlok was very good about 2 patches ago before they nerfed it. Now it has the highest spread increase per shot, meaning it’s inaccurate at range. It does in fact have the slowest TTK out of all the SMG’s both at long and close range. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=490808091

I’ll admit the SMG-9 is pretty bad too but at least it’s better than blishlok and has much lower spread than the other SMG’s.

(Szakalot) #13

[quote=“ChinaRep;28252”][quote=“omegaskorpion;27899”][quote=“ChinaRep;27856”][quote=“Advanced;27816”][quote=“ChinaRep;27790”]
Oh yeah you’re right the RoF of the crotzni is a bit higher. And I never said the SMG-9 was useful, I always use crotzni with sawbonez, but I was just saying there are some redeeming qualities to it. It is more accurate but that accuracy doesn’t really matter in most situations and more importantly the title of this thread says that the smg-9 is the most useless gun in the game but that title should really go to the blishlok.
[/quote]

Ehh… I actually prefer the Blishlock over the SMG-9 as well, the slower rate of fire but higher damage suits my playstyle. I didn’t know it was considered so bad? What makes it worse in your opinion?
[/quote]

It has the longest TTK out of all the smg’s in the game at all ranges. In fact, it’s particularly bad at long range, despite having actual sights, because it’s spread increase is so high. Speaking of which, it has the highest spread increase out of all the smg’s and also the lowest RoF out of all the smg’s which makes it slightly harder to track people that are ADAD’ing. Usually guns with low RoF and high damage are supposed to have slightly lower TTKs than guns with high RoFs since they require more precise aim but for some reason the devs chose not to do that. Maybe they didn’t want to make the blishlok too effective because shotgun classes have access to it too.[/quote]

There have been enough damage tests on the move that are saying that Blishlock has the 3best TTK rate, yes its slow but that 18 damage does bring it up. SMG-9 in the other hand had (if i am right) the worst time to kill (or second).

Also about the whole range thing. Blishlock is particaly good at range and the recoil isnt too hard to controll, it just that other smg:s have pretty low recoil and are always easy to use so they are also easier to use in range, they however suffer more damage drop off than Blishlock. Also the SMG-9 feels to be the worst smg for range, the low damage gets even lower on range and accurazy suffers extreamly badly. crotzni has more range and better accuracy so its more usable and one of the best smg. SMG-9 does not realy have any redeeming factors to it.
[/quote]

The recoil for every gun in this game is practically non-existent. The blishlok was very good about 2 patches ago before they nerfed it. Now it has the highest spread increase per shot, meaning it’s inaccurate at range. It does in fact have the slowest TTK out of all the SMG’s both at long and close range. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=490808091

I’ll admit the SMG-9 is pretty bad too but at least it’s better than blishlok and has much lower spread than the other SMG’s. [/quote]

recoil is definitely noticable on many guns, esp. horizontal recoil ; which can really screw up your tracking.

Unless you meant accuracy. In this game:

  • accuracy - how much your bullets deviate from middle of crosshair
  • recoil - how much your crosshair (mouse) is being shaken around when firing
(KangaJoo) #14

[quote=“Szakalot;28285”][quote=“ChinaRep;28252”][quote=“omegaskorpion;27899”][quote=“ChinaRep;27856”][quote=“Advanced;27816”][quote=“ChinaRep;27790”]
Oh yeah you’re right the RoF of the crotzni is a bit higher. And I never said the SMG-9 was useful, I always use crotzni with sawbonez, but I was just saying there are some redeeming qualities to it. It is more accurate but that accuracy doesn’t really matter in most situations and more importantly the title of this thread says that the smg-9 is the most useless gun in the game but that title should really go to the blishlok.
[/quote]

Ehh… I actually prefer the Blishlock over the SMG-9 as well, the slower rate of fire but higher damage suits my playstyle. I didn’t know it was considered so bad? What makes it worse in your opinion?
[/quote]

It has the longest TTK out of all the smg’s in the game at all ranges. In fact, it’s particularly bad at long range, despite having actual sights, because it’s spread increase is so high. Speaking of which, it has the highest spread increase out of all the smg’s and also the lowest RoF out of all the smg’s which makes it slightly harder to track people that are ADAD’ing. Usually guns with low RoF and high damage are supposed to have slightly lower TTKs than guns with high RoFs since they require more precise aim but for some reason the devs chose not to do that. Maybe they didn’t want to make the blishlok too effective because shotgun classes have access to it too.[/quote]

There have been enough damage tests on the move that are saying that Blishlock has the 3best TTK rate, yes its slow but that 18 damage does bring it up. SMG-9 in the other hand had (if i am right) the worst time to kill (or second).

Also about the whole range thing. Blishlock is particaly good at range and the recoil isnt too hard to controll, it just that other smg:s have pretty low recoil and are always easy to use so they are also easier to use in range, they however suffer more damage drop off than Blishlock. Also the SMG-9 feels to be the worst smg for range, the low damage gets even lower on range and accurazy suffers extreamly badly. crotzni has more range and better accuracy so its more usable and one of the best smg. SMG-9 does not realy have any redeeming factors to it.
[/quote]

The recoil for every gun in this game is practically non-existent. The blishlok was very good about 2 patches ago before they nerfed it. Now it has the highest spread increase per shot, meaning it’s inaccurate at range. It does in fact have the slowest TTK out of all the SMG’s both at long and close range. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=490808091

I’ll admit the SMG-9 is pretty bad too but at least it’s better than blishlok and has much lower spread than the other SMG’s. [/quote]

recoil is definitely noticable on many guns, esp. horizontal recoil ; which can really screw up your tracking.

Unless you meant accuracy. In this game:

  • accuracy - how much your bullets deviate from middle of crosshair
  • recoil - how much your crosshair (mouse) is being shaken around when firing[/quote]
    That’s true about the bouncing about your aimpoint due to horizontal recoil being noticeable on some guns but I was just talking about vertical recoil. I sort of consider accuracy to be both spread (how far your bullet deviates from where you’re aiming) and spread due to horizontal recoil. Even when looking at horizontal recoil, the SMG-9 seems to be just as good and it also has a faster TTK, higher RoF (more forgiving for bad aim), and lower spread increase.
(Ardez1) #15

There will always be a ‘most useless’ gun in the game. If the SMG-9 gets a buff and becomes better then another weapon then people will just complain that the new worst weapon also needs a buff. Cycle will continue and that is how power creep happens.

Instead ~ Make the perks on the loadouts with the SMG-9 better. That way you get a benefit for using a worse weapon.

I have played Nader a lot over the last 3 days and I used the SMG-9 Exclusively.

This is because I LOVED the augments and melee weapon on the loadout card and didn’t care which SMG I was using.

In particular I have the SM72 ~ SMG - 9, Caulden and Stilnotto Stiletto. Augments include Unshakeable, Chopper and Spares.

Weapons
SMG-9 = Not the best SMG, but also not the worst smg(imho blishlok holds that title).
Caulden = Pretty much a terrible secondary.
Stilnotto Stiletto = My favorite melee weapon due to fantastic heavy attack damage(90).

Augments
Unshakeable ~ Takes less damage from explosives. This augment is amazing with Nader and allows me to survive many things that would normally kill.
Chopper ~ Deals more melee damage. This augment is amazing with the Stilnotto Stiletto as a heavy melee attack can 1shot all of the 100 health and less mercs.
Spares ~ More dakka! I can hold more ammo from my guns, which can make sustained fights(long range/lots of enemies) much easier and decreases my reliance on ammo dropping mercs significantly.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Naders martyrdom counts as melee damage, so Chopper gives that a bonus as well. Another reason to pick the SMG-9 Card.

So yeah, some weapons will be worse. This shouldn’t be fixed with buffs to the worse weapons, but with other bonuses that would make the loadout card system a little shinier(beyond skins). Obviously if one weapon is extremely over performing or underperforming a buff/nerf may be in order, but I haven’t had any issues with the SMG-9 personally.

(omegaskorpion) #16

If SMG-9 gets buffed, it would be small buff, to make it better, It would not replace anything but it would be good.
RIght now even with good percs, that gun sucks so much that those percs dont realy matter.
What is the point of percs if your gun cant help you to survive long enough to make them effecive.

People say that blishlok is bad but i would say its one of the best, its hard choise between Crotzni and blishlok for me, i can kill with both with mostly same effectiveness, I dont realy care what charts say so long as the weapon it self handless good in the battle field, maybe others feel that blishlok is useless but that could also mean that it has higher skill cap, i dont know which.

(Advanced) #17

[quote=“Ardez;28567”]
Instead ~ Make the perks on the loadouts with the SMG-9 better. That way you get a benefit for using a worse weapon.[/quote]

I would be fine with this. The issue with the medic class is the best perks and the best guns are all on 1 loadout: Crotzni with mechanic, potent packs and get up.

And the Crtozni is so much better in real in-game usage then the SMG-9 that it just overshadows any loadout that isn’t that. As far as the medic’s are concerned, the SMG-9 is useless… Though generally after using the gun for a month, it just feels so in effective at anything except “in your face” range… At which point just give me a fucking shotgun, please.

(GildedDark) #18

I LOVE the SMG-9 as it is. And IMO the crotzni is SH.IT. The SMG-9 reks with headshots and has better range than the Crotzni. I use the SMG-9 on my Nader class and score first or second place every time.

(GildedDark) #19

Maybe on medics the SMG-9 would be a different story but on Nader the crotzni sucks and I’ll take the SMG-9 anyday

(omegaskorpion) #20

Funny thing is, that if i can believe dirty bomb wiki. SMG-9 has overall worser: Range, Reload Speed, Fire rate and dps compared to Crotzni. And ingame i feel that the SMG-9 has no accuracy benefits, the Crotzni only has slightly more recoil that does not change the game at all.

Now if SMG-9 would get reload speed buff and Accuracy buff, then i would love it. Crotzni still would have better range and fire rate, but both would be more balanced.