You guys should play with SMART a bit more.
Just tap the button (dont hold it) and you will sprint without SMARTing all over everything. Hold the button down to SMART all over everything.
Its really quite simple. You just need to know when to pull up on that lead thumb and when to keep it pressed.
[QUOTE=Bittermetal;349720]You guys should play with SMART a bit more.
Just tap the button (dont hold it) and you will sprint without SMARTing all over everything. Hold the button down to SMART all over everything.
Its really quite simple. You just need to know when to pull up on that lead thumb and when to keep it pressed.[/QUOTE]
a lot of the time after you do a vault, jump, etc. you stop sprinting after. when jump down from somewhere i hold LS (sprint) so i hit the ground running, but i find when im halfway to the floor that ive pulled myself up on to the wall or ledge in front of me, thus slowing me down since i have to turn around and jump back down. please set a toggle smart option SD
Man that sucks. Not sure how to explain how to avoid that. But that’s not my experience.
However anytime I jump down I hit the crouch button while holding SMART/Sprint so I go into a slide, which eliminates fall damage. Jump down too far and trying to run wont work. You take damage and slow down for a sec or 2.
[QUOTE=Bittermetal;349720]You guys should play with SMART a bit more.
Just tap the button (dont hold it) and you will sprint without SMARTing all over everything. Hold the button down to SMART all over everything.
Its really quite simple. You just need to know when to pull up on that lead thumb and when to keep it pressed.[/QUOTE]
I swear, if one more person points out that I don’t have to hold the sprint key down and that it’s “really quite simple” 
I’ll hunt them down and torture them with the soft cushion and the comfy chair. Combined with fear and cunning. And surprise. And also fear. And cunning.
Anyhow as I said - I like to HOLD shift to run, and while there are toggle/hold options for crouch and aim, there is no toggle/hold for run. Why? Because sprint and SMART are on the same damn key. Our brand new friend the multi-talented binding, the one who nobody invited to the party. Which is why I want them on separate keys. This is really quite simple.
Mmkay? :infiltrator: lol
[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;349589]
I’ve tried with SMART but there’s so little room to innovate, and part of thrill in the other games was landing insane jumps with hours of practice that your average, or even above average player couldn’t dream of landing. I don’t envision anything of the sort with SMART, for me the movement has been mainstreamed and made a little too accessible. Not that that’s a bad thing, I know I’m part of a niche crowd here and quite rightly so the masses should have priority, but as I said… I’m selfish 
[/QUOTE]
This is an argument as old as the hills, or as old as quakeworld at least, i’ve had the same discussion in many different games and it generally always comes down to the same points. The bunnyhopping / air acceleration mechanics of the Quake engines were accidental and never initially intended by id, but they were accidentally really bloody brilliant game mechanics. It’s such a great mechanic because it’s a deep granular skill that is easy to perform to a certain degree, but scales up indefinitely in difficulty and reward. It’s a system that people really can spend years playing with and still have room to improve their skills. It integrates perfectly into the game so every second of play where you are moving you can be pushing yourself to perform better by moving faster through your own skill, it makes simply getting from A to B incredibly entertaining before you even fire a weapon.
There have been various attempts to artificially create ‘replacement’ movement skills in FPS games, things like UTs special movement tricks, double jumping scouts in TF2, several games with things like wall bouncing and SMART in Brink. None of them come close to matching the accidental quirks of id’s physics engines for gameplay depth or usability. This has always been because the developers didn’t understand why Quake movement is so loved, and attempted to create a system that was over designed. Over design largely describes the problem with so many recent games - Instead of creating a broad set of game rules that potentially allow a great deal of experimentation and exploitation by the playerbase, the current trend is for devs to specifically design every single thing that you could do in the game as a player. It’s all tagged, with a name and a command for it, and a unique animation, you have to perform it in this specific way, and it always has the same rigid outcome. The result of this is, we’re left with games where the limits of what you can do as a player, are defined by the limits of what a group of designers can think up around a table over lunch. And they take about as long to master.
So Brink’s movement as a system is simple and limited, because it’s ultimately a series of designed moves that are easy to perform, and come out the same every time. A good player can’t wall bounce faster, or slide faster, or mantle better than any new player that’s just picked up the game and learnt how to run at a wall and press the jump button. There’s no granular reward of skill that allows you to continually develop your movement, so it has very minimal depth to it. As a movement system, SMART is an inferior gameplay mechanic to the hopping and air control/acceleration of any of the Quake series.
[QUOTE=dazman76;349741]I swear, if one more person points out that I don’t have to hold the sprint key down and that it’s “really quite simple” I’ll hunt them down and torture them with the soft cushion and the comfy chair. Combined with fear and cunning. And surprise. And also fear. And cunning.
Anyhow as I said - I like to HOLD shift to run, and while there are toggle/hold options for crouch and aim, there is no toggle/hold for run. Why? Because sprint and SMART are on the same damn key. Our brand new friend the multi-talented binding, the one who nobody invited to the party. Which is why I want them on separate keys. This is really quite simple.
Mmkay? :infiltrator: lol[/QUOTE]
Ok ok. I concede on that point. Another binding/key customization option is what you are asking for not necessarily a change. I agree then. Since they are there for crouch and what not. Wouldn’t hurt.
Unlike you’re dreaded and highly abrasive soft comfy chair cushion. Ouch it chafes!
And thank god for that. Bunny hopping and dolphin diving have always been lame since 2000. It looks stupid as H.E.double hockey sticks and has never been as much fun as SMART.
That’s just my opinion which seems to be what everyone is airing out on these forums like dirty drawers.
Now. I do believe a true jump feature would go a long way. The limited jumping is massively bothersome. I go nowhere when I hit the jump button.
When you say ‘bunny hopping’, I’m going to assume you mean the petty jumping done in games like CS or CoD. For some reason it always annoyed me when Quakes strafing got called ‘bunny hopping’, like it’s as simple as just mashing the spacebar.
[QUOTE=Bittermetal;349743]Ok ok. I concede on that point. Another binding/key customization option is what you are asking for not necessarily a change. I agree then. Since they are there for crouch and what not. Wouldn’t hurt.
Unlike you’re dreaded and highly abrasive soft comfy chair cushion. Ouch it chafes![/QUOTE]
I’m glad we could come to an understanding! 
I was about to unleash the fluffy feather, and then things would really be out of control.
Edit: Oops you were talking to whatsisface, nevermind i’ll leave the reply just for his benefit.
Personally i was always annoyed at the use of ‘strafe jumping’ to refer generally to a whole spectrum of physics tricks which in many cases had nothing to do with strafing. I’m old, and i recall the introduction of the term, and it has been reappropriated many times.
I use bunnyhopping in it’s original sense. Jumping immediately as you land in Quake games will cause you to continue bouncing forward at the same speed you were travelling when you hit the floor, because the effect of friction from the ground in id games is handled as a form of quick deceleration based on the amount of time you spend on the ground. Jumping immediately as you land means time on the ground is 0, so you lose no speed.
It’s the principle that allows most of the interesting movement in all Quake engine games as it allows you to maintain momentum, making speed you generate from any of the game specific tricks really useful. It’s also the only constant physics quirk that has continued between each engine - you’ll notice acceleration in the air works much differently in Q1/Quakeworld/Halflife and derivatives of that engine including source than it does in Q3 / ET. Those games build speed in the air by using the ‘air brakes’ effect of the Q1 engine to pivot and accelerate. Ramp physics also vary between the engines, and there are other little quirks like Q2 double jumping. The only consistant quirk that ties everything together is ‘Bunnyhopping’ which i use to refer to the ability to negate all friction by jumping immediately on landing. Without the hopping, all the other tricks wouldn’t be nearly as interesting.
It was a long time later when the term was bastardised by people who didn’t understand the physics at all to just refer to anyone who jumps a lot.
I´ve never been a fan of repeated jumping, regardless of the reason/mechanic behind it mainly because it looks silly. I know it isn´t meant to be RL but you would never ever ever get somewhere faster by bounding the whole time instead of just sprinting there. If you want a mechanic to work similarly, in a skill based way to increase movement speed, work it into sprinting, require similar button pressing/timing as strafe jumping without the silly bouncing.
I believe tribes skiing came from a similar error in coding as strafe jumping, except skiing didn´t involve bouncing up and down. You would just ski.
[QUOTE=taodemon;349770]I´ve never been a fan of repeated jumping, regardless of the reason/mechanic behind it mainly because it looks silly. I know it isn´t meant to be RL but you would never ever ever get somewhere faster by bounding the whole time instead of just sprinting there. If you want a mechanic to work similarly, in a skill based way to increase movement speed, work it into sprinting, require similar button pressing/timing as strafe jumping without the silly bouncing.
I believe tribes skiing came from a similar error in coding as strafe jumping, except skiing didn´t involve bouncing up and down. You would just ski.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. It always looked horrible to me in CS. Sure you got to the choke point faster but it looked utterly ridiculous. So I never invested. One of my biggest problems…I guess you could call it…is I need to like what my characters look like and like what it looks like when they are doing their thing. One of the major reasons I like BRINK. My characters looks so cool [to me] when they are cleverly and strategically out-maneuvering the enemies using SMART.
Skiing in TRIBES one was a glitch. They kept it in and marketed it in TRIBES 2. I remember the press event quite vividly. Press all got a free copy of TRIBES 2 and Immersion vibration technology was there supporting Sierra at the time.
Then in TRIBES Vengeance the whole skiing thing was perfected to the point where you could actually see mini ski like ice-skates on the characters’ feet. In Vengeance they also lit up very cool when you held down the spacebar to ski. Too bad Venegeance was a pale comparison to its predecessors.
Actually Tribes skiing was originally just bouncing up and down, they turned it into a frictionless ‘ski’ move later and kind of adopted it as an intentional game mechanic. In tribes 1 the skiing was really just people jumping repeatedly when they hit the floor, and it worked identically to bunnyhopping in Q1, sans the airbrakes/pivoting - you avoided all friction if you jumped immediately on landing, and bouncing on ramps redirected your motion vertically in the same fashion as Q1, so you got the effect of skiing up and down hills.
Tribes had really awesome movement, but it was created accidentally in exactly the same way as the Quake series, rather than being designed in.
But because of how it was used mainly on downhills/uphills your character didn´t visually look like he was repeatedly bouncing up and down like a spazzing rabbit and the bouncing up and down is the part that annoys me, not the movement boosts, those I love. 
a server admin can set commands (CVARS begging with “PM_”) to allow for plenty of romanticized “accidental” movement. bunnyhopping in brink actually gains momentum after each jump instead of just maintaining speed. you can even slide faster depending on the height you fall from. SDK will improve this further and i would love to see some of the pm_ cvars changed in a pub mod with custom maps with the proper space to break out with skilled movement.
BRINK brings alot more to movement the table than any idtech title but it just isn’t set by default.
a server admin can set commands to allow for plenty of praiseworthy “accidental” movement. bunnyhopping actually gains momentum after each jump instead of just maintaining speed. you can even slide faster depending on the height you fall from with a well timed smart button press. ppl here need see just what is possible if they break out of the default movement settings in brink. sdk would really help this along further but for now experimenting with all cvars beginning with “pm_” should produce interesting results. cant wait to see some actual changes to some of these in a pub mod.
ok, just as a proof…
pm_jumpheight 18-36 (best range, multiples of 9)
pm_bunnyhopfriction 0
pm_slidefriction 0
pm_slideminduration 800 (decrease distance from default but increase in speed)
pm_sliderate 100 (recovers from slide faster but not ridiculous)
pm_slidevelocity 1 (keep it 1)
pm_powerslide 4 (values higher than 1 is the magic to BRINK’s bunnyhop behavior atm)
all i want now is better control for changing direction after each jump so i can zig zag and control strafejumping better.
voted on nothing, cause I would love to have the best of all. rtcw/w:et bunnyhoping, strafing, circlejumping to gain speed heading for an enormous et:qw rampjump to finally mantle at the roof of the founders tower for example ;). …I hope u know what I mean.
Its summer for us Yanks and no one skis in the summer.
J/K I know what you mean.