slide to finish off downed enemies? POLL

(Kurushi) #21

I like the idea but it’d be too easy as is.

(R_Shackelford) #22

Wish I still had the Ren & Stimpy map/mod I made for Doom.

eg: Rocket launcher: “Joy! Joy! Joy! Joy!”

“Invincible” face on HUD was Powdered Toast Man.

(Crytiqal) #23

The melee gib is totally borked. I often find myself performing the melee finish move animation and the guys STILL lives and I have to do it AGAIN.

I hate it.

(BROTOX) #24

If you slide with a bayonete then it also deals knife damage, but this doesnt work when the enemy is already down. I think it would be too OP so I vote no.

(Jimmy James) #25

I’m sorry, I do not understand this logic at all. Can you please explain in more detail how this proposed mechanic would be overpowered? Or maybe, how the bayonet attachment would make this proposed mechanic unbalanced?

-JJ

(SebaSOFT) #26

doesn’t make sense at all.

(illmeister80) #27

[QUOTE=neg0ne;371346]yes.

i think its an imrovement to be able to take out an enemy that has been shot down and is incaped.

a compromise would be:

If you slide into and incap enemy his “Downed fire” doesn´t work anymore cos you kicked away his gun with the slide.
then its not that big problem to need two melees to finish him off.[/QUOTE]

i really like this idea! there are plenty of times where my finishing melee doesn’t hit for some stupid reason and the guy on the ground gets an easy downed fire kill on me. i ran over to his body, i hit the melee button, and I DIE. that’s just an unfair death in my book.

but this idea does sound like it would be a fair compromise to the clunky melee finish mechanic.

(Kurushi) #28

[QUOTE=Crytiqal;371403]The melee gib is totally borked. I often find myself performing the melee finish move animation and the guys STILL lives and I have to do it AGAIN.

I hate it.[/QUOTE]

Haha yeah but…

it seems easier to me since the dlc came out, maybe I’m imagining it?

(BROTOX) #29

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;371429]I’m sorry, I do not understand this logic at all. Can you please explain in more detail how this proposed mechanic would be overpowered? Or maybe, how the bayonet attachment would make this proposed mechanic unbalanced?

-JJ[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I was typing on my phone so I couldn’t elaborate. I understand this frustration, not only with the melee but with with repairing objectives. I literally have to push square twice before it locks and sometimes it really goofs me up.
What I meant to say in long form is originally before we got bayonets, I wanted to melee mid slide (to stab guys in the nuts)… but then we learned that sliding with the bayonet equipt dealt additional knife damage on top of knocking them down. I found this to be a satisfying compromise. But if this mechanic could be used on downed opponents then I feel like it will greatly reduce the usefulness of DF while incap, to the point where it will become useless because it will be too easy. We already have enough people slide spamming without this additional benefit. I’m just trying to see this from the other side… I have had some real intense/awesome moments where I’ve kept a wave of enemies off me until a medic showed up to revive me. If this mechanic you want actually happens then moments like the one mentioned above will become all but extinct and I don’t want that. If anything, SD should improve the hit detection for meleeing downed players or maybe make the bayonets range a tad longer but sliding kills on downed players would be too much.

(Jimmy James) #30

As a Downed Fire fanboy I have to admit that I can understand this concern but frankly I find that the only enemies willing to gib a downed opponent are bots. The human players tend to ignore people with Downed Fire for some odd reason. (Has anyone else experienced this or is it just me?)

-JJ

(BROTOX) #31

As it is, bots make waiting for a medic almost pointless because they always finish you off with their bullets before a medic can even reach you… or even more annoying, your in mid revive when the AI put a bullet in your head. AI are OCD when it comes to finishing off incap players.

(illmeister80) #32

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;371515]As a Downed Fire fanboy I have to admit that I can understand this concern but frankly I find that the only enemies willing to gib a downed opponent are bots. The human players tend to ignore people with Downed Fire for some odd reason. (Has anyone else experienced this or is it just me?)

-JJ[/QUOTE]

i’ve seen plenty of people ignore downed enemies, and i’ve seen these downed fire guys kill way more than they should have as a result. i always try to run over and melee downs if they are near me, and if at a distance, i don’t risk running over so i’ll just burst fire into the body till it dies. but yes, i think in the majority of games i’ve played, people tend to ignore the downs more often than not.

(Rahdo) #33

We didn’t have sliding killed downed because we wanted players to have to “commit” to the kill instead of doing it blithely and easily without a second thought. You’ve got to slow down and see it through to finish them off with melee. Though you can still do it fairly quickly if you practice… IIRC basically you’ve got to have them under your crosshair on a particular frame of the animation, so with timing, you can get it quicker.

Basically the notion was that we didn’t want it to be super easy to kill downed guys, so that there was a better chance that medics would get a chance to revive them. If everyone is incredibly easy to finish off, then what’s the reason to have incapped state in the first place?

That said, remember that headshots still work on a downed character, so if your angle is right, you can finish them quicker with guns. And even more important (I’m surprised how many people don’t realize this), if they’ve got downed fire (which you can clearly see even if they’re not shooting, because they still have their gun in their hands while they’re down), definitely don’t bother with a melee finisher at all, because they have almost no hitpoints, and just a quick burst should finish them off. That’s the big negative balancer for downed fire, sure it’s great and powerful, but you’re as fragile as an egg shell, and anyone can finish you off quickly and easily from any distance. If you don’t have downed fire, it’s tougher to finish you off, and the enemy has to commit time or ammo to get it done.

That’s the thinking anyway… :slight_smile:

(Rahdo) #34

If you’ve got downed fire, and you’re incredibly easy to kill if you do have downed fire. They’re more inclined to ignore you if you don’t because you’re not as much of a threat…

(Smoochy) #35

[QUOTE=Rahdo;371575]We didn’t have sliding killed downed because we wanted players to have to “commit” to the kill instead of doing it blithely and easily without a second thought. You’ve got to slow down and see it through to finish them off with melee. Though you can still do it fairly quickly if you practice… IIRC basically you’ve got to have them under your crosshair on a particular frame of the animation, so with timing, you can get it quicker.

Basically the notion was that we didn’t want it to be super easy to kill downed guys, so that there was a better chance that medics would get a chance to revive them. If everyone is incredibly easy to finish off, then what’s the reason to have incapped state in the first place?

That said, remember that headshots still work on a downed character, so if your angle is right, you can finish them quicker with guns. And even more important (I’m surprised how many people don’t realize this), if they’ve got downed fire (which you can clearly see even if they’re not shooting, because they still have their gun in their hands while they’re down), definitely don’t bother with a melee finisher at all, because they have almost no hitpoints, and just a quick burst should finish them off. That’s the big negative balancer for downed fire, sure it’s great and powerful, but you’re as fragile as an egg shell, and anyone can finish you off quickly and easily from any distance. If you don’t have downed fire, it’s tougher to finish you off, and the enemy has to commit time or ammo to get it done.

That’s the thinking anyway… :)[/QUOTE]

fair point. ive tried to shoot people in the head many times and not seen it being any quicker.

im not too bothered about the slide but i think the melee needs to work slightly more reliably. i now just shoot people as the melee (ON PC) is often unreliable

(Zekariah) #36

[QUOTE=Smoochy;371584]fair point. ive tried to shoot people in the head many times and not seen it being any quicker.

im not too bothered about the slide but i think the melee needs to work slightly more reliably. i now just shoot people as the melee (ON PC) is often unreliable[/QUOTE]

I agree with this statement.

I know where you were going with the slide idea, Smoochy, but downed opponents are taken out enough without making it easier.

But the Melee Finisher NEEDS to be fixed. I have serious trouble on my Xbox controller giving them the final blow, and I programmed it to the B button! It’s often that i get taken out by an enemy while I’m lining by melee up on a DO for the 7th time!

(Stormchild) #37

It’s also different if this is occuring in an open battle at a choke point or with a lone encounter near a CP, for example.
During the showdown at the battlefront, you don’t really have leisure to kill every incap because of the other enemies around, that’s when the dreaded downed fire is most effective I suppose.

The melee finished being a bit botched is, I think, linked to the “locking” mechanism. I don’t know if it uses the same kind of code as the other locking-related actions, only without the visual clues, but often it doesn’t work and there is no way to tell why, compared to when it worked.

Also, speaking of incap, I have a question:

Does many of you guys actually wait sometimes before using a received syringe ? I know I do it sometimes, but quite rarely because after a little while someone will start to gib you.

(wolfnemesis75) #38

After playing the game extensively, the most effective way to kill downed enemies hands down is by using the Ritchie Revolver. Sliding is very ineffective in general. Ritchie is the Closer. If you aim right, one bullet does the trick, or 2 at most. I have it as my secondary for this reason. Knock someone down, hit Y and switch to Ritchie to finish. :slight_smile:

(Jimmy James) #39

[QUOTE=Rahdo;371575]
That said, remember that headshots still work on a downed character, so if your angle is right, you can finish them quicker with guns.[/QUOTE]
Yes! Thanks for confirming that my OCD has actually worked out to my benefit for once. I always try to headshot downed enemies if I’m at a distance.

I find that sometimes I have to unload a significant amount of ammo from my CARB-9 or Gerund to finish off a downed enemy. Even a grenade tossed close to them doesn’t always do the job and I always have to hit at least 2 or 3 times with a melee hit.

Could it be that they are buffed with Kevlar Vest or Metabolism? Do those kind of buffs still apply to downed players? (I don’t have any problems finishing off downed players with the Gotlung btw, I just stand there and watch the corpses fly away in comical rag-doll fashion.)

-JJ

(Tandem) #40

Yes to slide gib
and add grenades to the list.

[QUOTE=Rahdo;371575]definitely don’t bother with a melee finisher at all, because they have almost no hitpoints, and just a quick burst should finish them off. That’s the big negative balancer for downed fire, sure it’s great and powerful, but you’re as fragile as an egg shell, and anyone can finish you off quickly and easily from any distance. If you don’t have downed fire, it’s tougher to finish you off, and the enemy has to commit time or ammo to get it done.

That’s the thinking anyway… :)[/QUOTE]

This feels broken on PC.
A player with downed fire is not as fragile as implied here.