'Skill' in Brink

(wolfnemesis75) #161

[QUOTE=*goo;372486]Can you explain that in more detail to me, please?

I’d like to know what I need to re-learn, why it takes hours of practice and what the subtle nuances are.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]Hard to teach something that takes hours of practice in a forum. Sometimes what appears simple on the surface, takes tons of practice to hone to a high degree of skill. Golf seems easy on the surface, right? Hit a ball into a hole with a stick and everyone uses the same bag of sticks. What’s so hard about that, lol?

You got to go to the salt mines and play Brink a TON and then the possibilities start to open up. What some respond to is surface stuff that any knucklehead with a pointer can do, but Brink requires a higher level of practice to separate from the crowd. That’s why sooo many did not stick out Brink when the going got rough. Hardcore know this. :slight_smile:

(Nexolate) #162

This made me laugh a bit.

Talking seriously though, I’ve played Brink for a fair bit now. My XFire counter says at least 152 hours, but it’s probably more than that due to how glitchy the XFire overlay is with Brink. I can tell you from experience that there’s really not a whole lot to “learn” in Brink.

[ul]
[li]Gunplay is the same as any other game, it just takes longer to kill people and headshots are less of a factor. You do have to tap more, which is nice but not difficult.[/li][li]Objectives are similar to what’s been done before (CTF, Escort, KotH, etc.) so there’s not much learning there other than what class is needed.[/li][li]Maps are relatively small so you can memorize key spots and paths with only a few games.[/li][li]Abilities take a while to unlock but are all pretty straight-forward, with the exception of placed abilities which factors into the previous point.[/li][li]Classes are simple, just more tedious. Most of what you do is giving people quick buffs and doing primary objectives, nothing too involved.[/li][/ul]

The only thing to really “learn” is how SMART works and what places are good to use it. That takes the longest but not by any significant amount. After that it’s pretty much standard affair; go out, shoot people, buff team mates and do objectives. The only difference is the heightened emphasis on Objectives and teamplay, which I like.

Regards,
Nexo

EDIT: As for the whole “Brink is more involved than BFBC2” thing, Brink is more involved because it places more emphasis on the objective in regards to classes. Not just anyone can complete an Objective, which means that there’s less dog-piling and more covering. That and, as previously mentioned, killing someone takes longer due to the inaccuracy.

(gooey79) #163

[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;372493]Hard to teach something that takes hours of practice in a forum. Sometimes what appears simple on the surface, takes tons of practice to hone to a high degree of skill. Golf seems easy on the surface, right? Hit a ball into a hole with a stick and everyone uses the same bag of sticks. What’s so hard about that, lol?

You got to go to the salt mines and play Brink a TON and then the possibilities start to open up. What some respond to is surface stuff that any knucklehead with a pointer can do, but Brink requires a higher level of practice to separate from the crowd. That’s why sooo many did not stick out Brink when the going got rough. Hardcore know this. :)[/QUOTE]

You can’t give me one example under each area? Just talk in riddles like it means something? Come on, help me out…

(wolfnemesis75) #164

[QUOTE=*goo;372496]You can’t give me one example under each area? Just talk in riddles like it means something? Come on, help me out…[/QUOTE]All I can tell you, is you got to log the hours. The good players know this. :slight_smile:

(gooey79) #165

Why the non committal?

You spend so much time preaching and little to none explaining. I’m looking for you to help me by explaining what you mean and you back off citing some reason that makes no sense.

You’ve put the hours in, so you’ve got the experience to explain what you mean, I haven’t. Step up and help me out by explaining what you mean and giving examples, please.

Let’s start easy. What do I need to re-learn?

(montheponies) #166

[QUOTE=Nexolate;372450] Originally Posted by montheponies
Accurate guns in CSS…hmm okaay.

…Yes. What’s so odd about that?[/QUOTE]

Because funnily enough CSS has a fair number of folk that are critical of the recoil and other game mechanics since Valve/HPE upgraded the engine.

example:

original post:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1934287

on your other points I broadly agree

(Crytiqal) #167

wolfnemesis75 if you cannot discuss or add anything to this thread, please leave

Absolutly none of your comments are backed up by reason, experience or examples and all you do is talk in riddles like you are in some sort of cult.

Again, if you are not here to discuss or bring anything relevant to this thread then leave.

(sachewan) #168

There are multiple facets of Brink that seem designed from the get go explicitly to make things easier or simpler for players (‘dumbing down’ if you will). This isn’t anything new, it’s been a trend with Splash Damage games that finally went too far with their latest outing and showed in it’s massive abandonment.

All these little things they add in have a simple objective of making any random public player get the ‘feel’ of high-level teamplay. The problem is it’s all an illusion and its very obvious even to the laymen. You simply cannot replace real human interaction and teamplay with an automated, faked replacement and expect people to not realize the difference.

Just look at the ‘mission system’ from ETQW that is now the objective wheel in Brink. Do THIS objective instead of the one you naturally learned your team needs from them either telling you or you sensing it yourself. Spam ‘F’ to give whatever buff your class has instead of have it be requested by a real person and have that request fulfilled. Have your character automatically say out loud whatever the game thinks you should be saying, because god forbid you have to choose your own VSays and have real communication. Hold down your SMART button instead of learning to trickjump. Shoot everyone instead of using class priority! Spray bullets everywhere because it’s pointless to have pinpoint accuracy with the gigantic weapon spread!

Other ‘modern’ games have built in a new treadmill of leveling and unlocks to retain their playerbase for good amount of time before moving on to the next game or next DLC pack. Why did they do this? Because otherwise people feel there is no ‘point’ to playing random games on random servers/matches over and over if they aren’t making some sort of progress, the latest trend is to make that progress artificial and in chart form. Splash Damage did an admirable thing by making the weapon unlocks so quick and easy and not fall to the pressure of the current industry trend to make you play 50 hours to get all the weapons, but they failed in one very important thing:

The ‘progression’ that people who don’t care about unlocks and leveling is REAL progression of getting better as a player. Your aim actually getting better. Your tactics actually improving. Your teamplay, communication skills and crossfire setups actually evolving as you spend more time with the game. This is what the people who don’t care about seeing bars go up every match are really interested in, and this is where Brink fails.

First you lost the crowd who wants to see bars go up and weapons unlock for 50 hours so they can feel they’ve ‘completed’ a multiplayer game. But then by intentionally putting a low skill cap on how good one person can play in almost every facet of the game, you lost the other crowd that wants to play a game for a long time (think years) and see themselves and their teams improve and see and participate in high level matches. Both sides lost.

(Crytiqal) #169

[QUOTE=montheponies;372500]Because funnily enough CSS has a fair number of folk that are critical of the recoil and other game mechanics since Valve/HPE upgraded the engine.

example:

original post:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1934287

on your other points I broadly agree[/QUOTE]

Haha :D.
And then we get slandered for saying the guns in BRINK are inaccurate
Seriously, have you (not personal) seen the spread/recoil in BRINK?

Would love to have it like in CSS :smiley:

(Nexolate) #170

I don’t doubt that CS1.6 plays better than CSS, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many folk still playing it.
To say that the guns aren’t accurate in CSS though is just silly, I hope we can agree on that.

Regards,
Nexo

EDIT: [QUOTE=Crytiqal;372505]Would love to have it like in CSS :D[/QUOTE]

You and me both, brother.

I’ve been praying, no, begging for a CS2 since the X360 was released. Thankfully Valve are finally taking up the challenge. Can’t wait to see footage of it from PAX Prime in a week’s time.

Regards,
Nexo

(wolfnemesis75) #171

[QUOTE=*goo;372499]Why the non committal?

You spend so much time preaching and little to none explaining. I’m looking for you to help me by explaining what you mean and you back off citing some reason that makes no sense.

You’ve put the hours in, so you’ve got the experience to explain what you mean, I haven’t. Step up and help me out by explaining what you mean and giving examples, please.

Let’s start easy. What do I need to re-learn?[/QUOTE]The folly of many with regard to Brink, is believing because they are good in other games, or even a previous ET game, it will mean they will be good in Brink or even if they’ve played in other tournaments and had some measure of success, they should in Brink (or the game is broken). Just not the case. This is the reason that many professional gamers don’t have time to play newer games, because of the amount of time they’ve spent honing their craft in another game to a specialized level. Which won’t necessarily translate to a new game with its own unique parameters at all. The great players know this, that in order to truly separate from the crowd, it takes tons of practice and dedication. Sometimes this means literally years of playing a game.

Often, a deep understanding of the limitations in the game, is the first step to unlocking the possibilities through practice when one adapts and overcomes them. This is true for ALL games! :slight_smile:

(montheponies) #172

Personally I’d prefer the recoil/spread of RTCW - I don’t find CSS’ gun play anything to aspire to tbh.

(Crytiqal) #173

Except all the players who ARE good at the game are leaving/have left

You got your wires crossed

Too bad I recently bought an PS3 and don’t have the desire to pick up another copy of BRINK or I would have bought an Xbox + BRINK and would have come there to totally own you <_<
Rofl, a “deep understanding” of the game. The learning curve of this game is as flat as a pancake under a steamroller

You qualify for being the biggest troll on this forum

Avoid reasoning and discussion and keep shouting how good of a player you are in BRINK <_<

(wolfnemesis75) #174

[QUOTE=Crytiqal;372510]Except all the players who ARE good at the game are leaving/have left
<_<[/QUOTE]
Some players are gonna leave for different reasons. Many left because the game was too hard. Some, the top percentage who are trying to play in Tournaments are not gonna stick around to play the game to death if there’s little sign of viability from a popularity standpoint. Again, please refer to my early point about the time and dedication necessary to spend if one wants to achieve a high level of skill compared to the crowd. The problem with Brink is at launch, it got hammered by a host of problems and mostly do to critical reception that has a ripple-down effect on competitive gamers. Commercial appeal impacts sponsored tournaments, and the stable viability of other games (more popular) with a higher purse is gonna draw the focus of a competitive player and sponsors, even if its an older game, such games have a track record of sponsorship, leagues, and tournaments to validate it. But I am sure that it took time for those older games to build up to that level and get the necessary settings to be viable AND the popularity to warrant sponsorship. Still think that can happen for Brink, but its in the infancy phase. Games like Star Craft have built up a stable viability through commercial success first, thus making for more viability for a competitive standpoint. One good point I’d like to add, so as not to sound all doom and gloomy, is with the DLC and patches, Brink has gotten a kind of re-boot, resurrection. With some more Free Weekends, and some more work, it can become much more popular, user friendly, casual friendly, AND thus more viable for sponsored tournaments with more people and teams looking to compete.

…And, some of the best players, and the most Hardcore have never left at all. Still here. :slight_smile:

Some of the best players in any game play purely for the love of the game. :slight_smile:

(H0RSE) #175

No, I play on xbox, but I am a PC gamer at heart. I have done all my past gaming on PC exclusively. Unfortunately, my current rig is old and ****ty.

(gooey79) #176

[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;372508]The folly of many with regard to Brink, is believing because they are good in other games, or even a previous ET game, it will mean they will be good in Brink or even if they’ve played in other tournaments and had some measure of success, they should in Brink (or the game is broken). Just not the case. This is the reason that many professional gamers don’t have time to play newer games, because of the amount of time they’ve spent honing their craft in another game to a specialized level. Which won’t necessarily translate to a new game with its own unique parameters at all. The great players know this, that in order to truly separate from the crowd, it takes tons of practice and dedication. Sometimes this means literally years of playing a game.

Often, a deep understanding of the limitations in the game, is the first step to unlocking the possibilities through practice when one adapts and overcomes them. This is true for ALL games! :)[/QUOTE]

But what do I need to re-learn?

(MrFoxer) #177

Is it silly to think that there’s no such thing as skill in a video game? Like if I kill a bunch of guys in a row, I don’t think I’m skilled, I think I was either lucky, or the other team just sucks.

(wolfnemesis75) #178

[QUOTE=H0RSE;372521]No, I play on xbox, but I am a PC gamer at heart. I have done all my past gaming on PC exclusively. Unfortunately, my current rig is old and ****ty.[/QUOTE]I am simply a gamer at heart. Many more people to play with that way. Still love arcades too. :slight_smile:

(gooey79) #179

Any chance of the help yet, Wolf?

Again, thanks in advance. I’d like you to get involved in the conversation.

(Cep) #180

[QUOTE=*goo;372550]Any chance of the help yet, Wolf?

Again, thanks in advance. I’d like you to get involved in the conversation.[/QUOTE]

Oh goo your starting to crack me up now. I respect Wolfs enthusiasm but your never going to get any help because he hasn’t got any to give except the advice of playing the game…which… wait a minute, you already do, so by his logic you must be awesome!!

Sorry Wolfie but so far you have not made one valid point except to claim people who disagree with you are not skilled. That’s just plain EGM Noey talk. Others in this thread whether for or against the skill level in Brink have made valid points, please take a leaf from their book and try yourself.