'Skill' in Brink

[Crytiqal]

[quote=wolfnemesis75;371995]tons of skill in brink. High learning curve compared to other “current” popular fps games within a changing gaming culture/industry. Brink pushes the challenge bar up higher stressing team and cooperation to the point of being too hard for many players used to cod style play and game mechanics. Some balance tweaks to the weapons in brink to further flesh out the strengths and weaknesses of each body type will diversify the battlefield a bit more. Until then, lights and heavies seem the most popular choices. The recent patch definitely expanded the game’s weapon viability selection. Introducing clan support would up the bar on high skill teams showing up to prove their worth and the very real separation already present between good players, good teams and the noobs. The skill gap in brink is wider than this thread tries to imply already!

Edit: 99% on here squawking about no skill in brink would get absolutely destroyed by the team i run with on a regular basis. :)[/quote]

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA

stop you"re killing me!! :'D :'D

HAHHAHAHAHAHA

tons of skill in brink. High learning curve compared to other “current” popular fps games within a changing gaming culture/industry.

WHAT learning curve? You run towards the objective (shooting in the general direction of enemies) and once you arrive you press F. Omg such a learning curve!

Brink pushes the challenge bar up higher stressing team and cooperation to the point of being too hard for many players used to cod style play and game mechanics.

There is NO team coorporation. Looking at your teammate and pressing F is NOT teamwork.

Some balance tweaks to the weapons in brink to further flesh out the strengths and weaknesses of each body type will diversify the battlefield a bit more. Until then, lights and heavies seem the most popular choices.

Yes, they should definitaly weakin the light body type weapons even more. In fact, they should replace the gus with a pillow.

The recent patch definitely expanded the game’s weapon viability selection. Introducing clan support would up the bar on high skill teams showing up to prove their worth and the very real separation already present between good players, good teams and the noobs. The skill gap in brink is wider than this thread tries to imply already!

Yes, everyone left BECAUSE the game is for noobs.
Clan support? All the good teams left already.

[quote=wolfnemesis75;371995]
Edit: 99% on here squawking about no skill in brink would get absolutely destroyed by the team i run with on a regular basis. :)[/quote]

99% here squawking about no skill are PC gamers and they’d kick your ASS if you’d compete with them

[H0RSE]

There is NO team coorporation. Looking at your teammate and pressing F is NOT teamwork.

But equipping medkit/ammo, tossing it, and requipping weapon is? Either they both are or both are not.

[Crytiqal]

At least you could place medpacks on the ground before you walked into a room to fall back to (thinking strategy here for your team). TK revive was also a valid tactic. Also having to come close to your teammate (and have to check to make sure everything is clear or there is a window of opportunity) to revive him also requires skill, awareness and tactic.

So yea, pressing F while running passed someone seems pretty lame

[nephandys]

txt. Increase speed of body types.

Just wanted to point out in another thread the devs said it is impossible to adjust the speed of the body types due to it’s relation to SMART. They said something like they’d have to redo all the animations, etc. This seems like a strange answer to me considering that the speed buff is present in game. Therefore, I guess theoretically like you are saying they could just make the Speed Buff permanent across all characters. This might be a good way for them to accomplish what players have requested without having to redo everything all over.

[Chris2]

But equipping medkit/ammo, tossing it, and requipping weapon is? Either they both are or both are not.

It’s a common argument that buffs and such promote teamwork and cooporation when in reality they almost don’t some would argue back, they just force you to have a buff party each spawn otherwise you may as well not bother leaving the spawn due to been under powered, also you get some nice XP bonus for this teamwork which was said by the dev’s themselves is a bribe to make people buff and such, either way it just feels artificial, like you’re going through the motions rather than actually working together.

I wouldn’t say the old system required much coordination either, maybe slightly more as the recipient has to actually pick up your health or ammo but the old system did allow for some variation in tactics, pre dropping health to fall back on as crytiqal mentions but that is a separate area of discussion but still a valid point for this topic as a whole.

[cheezespread]

I can actually relate to many a things posted here with the main reason being i am a lousy shot in FPSs and BRINK sort of made me feel good. Wait , don’t make any assumptions now. The game seemed to be driving towards making the casual gamer feel he owned it on the servers while the flawed gunplay made the good folks go crazy.

A lot many assumptions were made as in how everyone would want it to be.

[ul]
[li]Unpolished.
[/li][li]Attempted to include a lot of fancy stuff to entice the casual gamer.
[/li][li] Where the heck is the Single player ?
[/li][/ul]

[MoonOnAStick]

[QUOTE=shirosae;372016]… loads of good stuff …

All in all, it’s for this reason that I hope there isn’t a Brink 2; a sequel would probably tie SD to Bethesda, and SD desperately need to drop Bethesda like they were Activision. Brink sold copies on the strength of WET and QWET, but after Brink that’s not going to work again. I really don’t want to see SD go under, but they need to find a publisher that knows wtf it’s doing.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Bethesda put their foot down once they’d paid for the marketing slots which hurt Brink because it clearly needed a bit more development time. But they also managed a successful advertising campaign which shifted a lot of full price launch copies. Compared to Activision (sod all advertising for ETQW and a heavily hyped competitor released at the same time) this seems like a positive step (also, idtech 5).

The reason I (and most other players I believe) are playing light isn’t solely because they are the strongest class wrt speed and weapons atm, it is mainly because their movement speed is actually fun. Even IF the medium weapons were effective, I still wouldn’t like to play them because of how terribly slow the player speed is.

This is the thing that depresses me most because Brink was sold as being all about the movement and it just isn’t very much fun. I can’t see this changing for future titles. Slow and steady FPS movement speeds are what sells on consoles because they fit better with the limitations of analogue nubs, making the game more enjoyable for 70% of your audience. Exciting movement in multiplatform titles isn’t coming back until someone sorts out a new input mechanism for the consoles (in one of his Quakecon interviews, John Carmack stated that he thinks it’ll be a pupil tracking device that you wear ,like a monocle I suppose, which sounds like a good bet.)

On the other hand, I think it’s pretty clear that the gun play isn’t amazing, having fallen between the COD and Quake stools, so for Brink 2 I’m confident this will change in some direction. I did hold out some hope that SD would pull a rabbit out of the hat and introduce an ‘old school’ (ETQW/WET) spread setting for PC users, but realistically that would be a large amount of work.

[montheponies]

I think it’s a subjective statement to say there are no skilled players in Brink. I totally get and agree with most of the complaints about Brink - particularly spread, F key does everything (along with latency), buffs and ‘character’ customisation trumping readily identifiable classes - my biggest gripe however is the lack of an SDK.

That said there were/are as many things that I could complain about W:ET (superpubtastic when first produced by SD) or it’s bastard offspring ETQW (even more superpubtastic this time with vehicles…). Basically SD have a history of taking a skilled/classed based fps (RTCW) and adding a lot of stuff that makes it bloated and crap, leading to the community creating mods that fix the things they don’t like or creating artificial rules to limit they’re use.

I wonder why everyone expected SD to create anything other than a game with general mass appeal, broadly in line with what they had done before… The confusing thing for me is that I seem, for the first time to actually like what SD have done as I think the core game is closest to a pure skilled FPS, just let down at the moment by a few things that could be readily patched out.

anyway if you want real skill check this guy out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShbC5yVqOdI

[Cynix]

While I agree with almost all of the points I have to ask why all the console gamer bashing?

Rightly so or not, a lot of PC gamers blame consoles for Brink’s failure. At the top end there is a common perception that certain design decisions in Brink that make it unsuitable for competition were done explicitly to improve its appeal to console players (things like having to hold buttons to perform actions, having high gun spread, having a single button perform all of the SMART actions, etc.).

Basically for exactly the reasons SinDonor gave, a lot of PC gamers feel that the game was dumbed down to appeal to console players:

This game is harder, or perhaps, more complicated than most console FPS games. I had ten RL friends try Brink. Only 4 liked it. The rest said it was either too difficult, they want TDM, or they’d rather pilot tanks/helis. They didn’t like the multiple Objective style gameplay. Too confusing.

And this points out yet another inherent contraction in Brink’s design. Why go through all the trouble to make the Smart system and focus/market the movement possibilities of your game, then make 2 out of 3 of the classes unable to fully utilize it? It makes no sense.

QFT. This makes no sense to me either. Tons of marketing and focus went into Smart; they went on and on about it during previews of the game, but in the end it’s worthless unless you’re playing light. It just underscores that this game has been intended from the beginning to focus on the light class. The medium and heavy class were not designed to be equal to the light class.

So please SD nerf all the damn pistols and SMGs so that at mid to long range they are completely useless!

SMGs are already utterly worthless at mid to long range because of the spread. You can’t hit jack with an SMG at more than about 15 feet. On labs, you can’t even fight effectively with an SMG from one balcony to the other on the second objective. Lights are only effective with SMGs because they are good at close range and lights are fast, which allows them to get close to you fast.

[Stormchild]

Basically for exactly the reasons SinDonor gave, a lot of PC gamers feel that the game was dumbed down to appeal to console players:

I don’t think it should be seen this way. It was not that much “dumbed down to appeal console players”, but more “dumbed down to fit in gamepad playstyle”, along, indeed, with some consolesque gameplay trends.

But it’s harsh to consider that console players need dumbed down versions. Some aspects need to be because of controller limitations. If all consoles came with mouse/trackball and a small keyboard included, it would probably be much different.

Still, PC or Console, the fact is that a gamepad based gameplay and a mouse+kb based gameplay are hard to unite in the FPS genre, unless maybe you got for something like Bioshock.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=Crytiqal;372100]HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA
stop you"re killing me!! :'D :'D
HAHHAHAHAHAHA
WHAT learning curve? You run towards the objective (shooting in the general direction of enemies) and once you arrive you press F. Omg such a learning curve!
There is NO team coorporation. Looking at your teammate and pressing F is NOT teamwork.
Yes, they should definitaly weakin the light body type weapons even more. In fact, they should replace the gus with a pillow.
Yes, everyone left BECAUSE the game is for noobs.
Clan support? All the good teams left already.
99% here squawking about no skill are PC gamers and they’d kick your ASS if you’d compete with them[/QUOTE]…And next time try saying something.

[Cynix]

I don’t think it should be seen this way. It was not that much “dumbed down to appeal console players”, but more “dumbed down to fit in gamepad playstyle”, along, indeed, with some consolesque gameplay trends.

But it’s harsh to consider that console players need dumbed down versions. Some aspects need to be because of controller limitations. If all consoles came with mouse/trackball and a small keyboard included, it would probably be much different.

Yes, indeed you are correct. Most of the console-related limitations of the game are control related. Brink is dumbed down though in other aspects too though. After ETQW, Brink feels like it’s missing a lot. Even simple things like being able to double plant on objectives.

I didn’t mean to imply that console players need dumbed down versions of the game, that’s clearly not the case at all. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if at least 4 out of 10 or more PC players found Brink to be too complicated also. However, the number of console players absolutely dwarfs the number of PC players, so absolutely speaking there are more dumb console players, even if the percentage is exactly the same (and the game publisher really only cares about absolute sales).

The difference in market size is why console players are blamed. Since they are the majority, the minority feels as if the design decisions in the game were made to please the majority.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=montheponies;372131]I think it’s a subjective statement to say there are no skilled players in Brink. I totally get and agree with most of the complaints about Brink - particularly spread, F key does everything (along with latency), buffs and ‘character’ customisation trumping readily identifiable classes - my biggest gripe however is the lack of an SDK.

That said there were/are as many things that I could complain about W:ET (superpubtastic when first produced by SD) or it’s bastard offspring ETQW (even more superpubtastic this time with vehicles…). Basically SD have a history of taking a skilled/classed based fps (RTCW) and adding a lot of stuff that makes it bloated and crap, leading to the community creating mods that fix the things they don’t like or creating artificial rules to limit they’re use.

I wonder why everyone expected SD to create anything other than a game with general mass appeal, broadly in line with what they had done before… The confusing thing for me is that I seem, for the first time to actually like what SD have done as I think the core game is closest to a pure skilled FPS, just let down at the moment by a few things that could be readily patched out.

anyway if you want real skill check this guy out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShbC5yVqOdI[/QUOTE]That’s real skill for sure. Thanks.

[Humate]

But equipping medkit/ammo, tossing it, and requipping weapon is? Either they both are or both are not.

Having an item bank isnt so much about team-work, but the ability to put one’s self in a position where its appropriate to be helpful. Brink is designed, so that its the thought or the intent that counts - and not the ability to perform the action.

The average clueless joe in Brink, assumes that they are an asset to their team because they can smash the F key. When the reality is - their actions are cancelled out by everyone else’s ability to do the same.

With banks, this is not the case. You have to pick and choose your moments.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=Rex;372019]Of course. In what leagues do you play atm, or have you played? (A public server isn’t a league btw)
:rolleyes: facepalm Exactly this happened. Best example: You.
Ever thought of why all the good teams left this game? Because it was too hard?
Yeah, I am damn sure they were all frustrated about the complex gameplay and left.
If this is true, then I just realized that I wasted my time talking to a console player who talks about skill in Brink -.-
This was the most retarded post I read for the last 6 months. But I must admit, the players posting here (for example this wolfnemesis) fit perfect to Brink. :D[/QUOTE]Er. Next time save some strain on your keyboard.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=Humate;372234]Having an item bank isnt so much about team-work, but the ability to put one’s self in a position where its appropriate to be helpful. Brink is designed, so that its the thought or the intent that counts - and not the ability to perform the action.

The average clueless joe in Brink, assumes that they are an asset to their team because they can smash the F key. When the reality is - their actions are cancelled out by everyone else’s ability to do the same.

With banks, this is not the case. You have to pick and choose your moments.[/QUOTE]Grasping at straws much?
Teamwork is an abstract concept that has little to do with pressing F key.

[Humate]

[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;372240]Grasping at straws much?
Teamwork is an abstract concept that has little to do with pressing F key. :)[/QUOTE]

Out of your depth much?

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=Humate;372242]Out of your depth much?[/QUOTE]Your post certainly was lacking any. Unless nonsensical is the norm. Stick with ETQW. Old Folks Home 4 Gaming.

[H0RSE]

[QUOTE=Crytiqal;372108]At least you could place medpacks on the ground before you walked into a room to fall back to (thinking strategy here for your team). TK revive was also a valid tactic. Also having to come close to your teammate (and have to check to make sure everything is clear or there is a window of opportunity) to revive him also requires skill, awareness and tactic.

So yea, pressing F while running passed someone seems pretty lame[/QUOTE]

You are missing the point - They both require skill/tactics, just different skills and tactics since obtaining the same goal (healing, resupply, etc) is reached by different means in each game. From your response, it appears that you would just rather have buffs/resupply work like they traditionally do in FPS games - with equipable medkits/ammo that you can toss on the ground, regardless how much “skill” it takes or not.

I personally wish they could merge the 2 techniques - Have it like it is in Brink now, but without the need to “lock on” to people. have it be optional.

Rightly so or not, a lot of PC gamers blame consoles for Brink’s failure.

A lot of PC gamers blame consoles for failure in games in general…

[Thundermuffin]

How do you make a tactic around pushing the F key? You can’t lay the syringes down so people can run back around cover and grab them, nor can you strategically use them to lure an enemy around a corner by tossing them around it. If you call hitting the F key a skill then it makes one worry, because will the next “pro skill” BRINK 2 offers be pushing mouse1 as the game aims the gun for you?