'Skill' in Brink

[GLUGLUG]

I truly don’t understand this OBSESSIVE NEED for “skill” in games. Is it not enough to be good at the game and have fun playing it?
You all act like if you can’t have the classic “mine’s bigger” “I have more xyz” and " my dad can beat up your dad" arguments then the game sucks.
My god, why does everyone feel that they have to be “BIGGEST SKILZ ON TEH SRVR” guy. Nothing in your ACTUAL LIVES to be proud of?
Even if you were the MOST SKILLED GAMER IN THE UNIVERSE. Guess what? No one else gives a *.

[INF3RN0]

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;373932]I truly don’t understand this OBSESSIVE NEED for “skill” in games. Is it not enough to be good at the game and have fun playing it?
You all act like if you can’t have the classic “mine’s bigger” “I have more xyz” and " my dad can beat up your dad" arguments then the game sucks.
My god, why does everyone feel that they have to be “BIGGEST SKILZ ON TEH SRVR” guy. Nothing in your ACTUAL LIVES to be proud of?
Even if you were the MOST SKILLED GAMER IN THE UNIVERSE. Guess what? No one else gives a *.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe people want a game that actually challenges you, instead of spoon feeding you “skill” and making everyone feel competent. Hurrrrdurrr? But yea no one cares if your good at Brink because it’s just about as difficult as completing a 4 piece puzzle. Maybe you have Brink-level reading skills… because you obviously are missing the point of this thread.

[Thundermuffin]

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;373932]I truly don’t understand this OBSESSIVE NEED for “skill” in games. Is it not enough to be good at the game and have fun playing it?
You all act like if you can’t have the classic “mine’s bigger” “I have more xyz” and " my dad can beat up your dad" arguments then the game sucks.
My god, why does everyone feel that they have to be “BIGGEST SKILZ ON TEH SRVR” guy. Nothing in your ACTUAL LIVES to be proud of?
Even if you were the MOST SKILLED GAMER IN THE UNIVERSE. Guess what? No one else gives a *.[/QUOTE]
Ever think that maybe being good at the game is fun for us? I don’t like to play a game where I’m not challenged. I don’t like to play a game where I’m on the same level as everyone, because I know either everyone is being brought down to my level or I’m being brought down to their level. That isn’t fun.

I do like how this counter argument people who think BRINK is skilled come up with always involves our personal lives, as if you can’t be good at a game and have a job, go to school, or have a family.

[GLUGLUG]

Or maybe people want a game that actually challenges you, instead of spoon feeding you “skill” and making everyone feel competent. Hurrrrdurrr? But yea no one cares if your good at Brink because it’s just about as difficult as completing a 4 piece puzzle. Maybe you have Brink-level reading skills… because you obviously are missing the point of this thread.

DUDE, no one cares if you are the best QW player, best W:ET player, most likely to be a *, or best anything.
There are good players at this game. There are GREAt players at this game. Thinking that it makes everyone equal is just plain ignorant.
If it’s SOOOO easy then hey, maybe YOU can be the best. That’s obviously what you’re after.
You want a challenge in BRINK? How about no Carb 9, No light body and no GS. Think you still “got the skills”?

EDIT: I never even said I think this game is extremely skill based. I just have a great time playing it.
FUN is what I base GOOD games around. NOT how long it takes to get good.

[V1cK_dB]

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;373939]DUDE, no one cares if you are the best QW player, best W:ET player, most likely to be a *, or best anything.
There are good players at this game. There are GREAt players at this game. Thinking that it makes everyone equal is just plain ignorant.
If it’s SOOOO easy then hey, maybe YOU can be the best. That’s obviously what you’re after.
You want a challenge in BRINK? How about no Carb 9, No light body and no GS. Think you still “got the skills”?

So you speak for everyone? Nobody cares because you say so? Please kid. Congrats you’re a casual. Is that how you go through life? Not caring…not competitive, winning isn’t everything?

I guess you didn’t check with me when you were speaking for everyone because I DO care. I like to win at everything I do. That makes me some type of loser? I run a business, have a six figure salary and own a home…AND I like to be the best player in every match I play. What’s it to you?

[GLUGLUG]

Yeah, I LOVE to win, I play to WIN. But I do not care if I am the worst player in the match as long as we win and I know I tried my best.
It is after all, A TEAM GAME. If YOU want to be the best every round, maybe you should try Deathmatch type games.

EDIT:

How would you even categorize BEST in a game such as this?
Most Kills? Most XP? Best Accuracy? Most Buffs? Most Revives? Most Objectives Completed?
It is about the team. This is why you need a solid team of people and there needs to be competitive play.
But no, this game isn’t worth playing competitively because I can’t consistantly Headshot. :rolleyes:

[V1cK_dB]

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;373946]Yeah, I LOVE to win, I play to WIN. But I do not care if I am the worst player in the match as long as we win and I know I tried my best.
It is after all, A TEAM GAME. If YOU want to be the best every round, maybe you should try Deathmatch type games.

EDIT:

How would you even categorize BEST in a game such as this?
Most Kills? Most XP? Best Accuracy? Most Buffs? Most Revives? Most Objectives Completed?
It is about the team. This is why you need a solid team of people and there needs to be competitive play.
But no, this game isn’t worth playing competitively because I can’t consistantly Headshot. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Well…we agree on one thing. This game doesn’t reward headshots because of the randomness of the weapon spread.

If you play to win I don’t see how you don’t care if you play poorly in a match but I guess that’s just the way you feel about it. I personally can’t stand it if I have a bad match…win OR lose. Sure I’m glad we won but it doesn’t feel good to be carried.

[INF3RN0]

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;373939]DUDE, no one cares if you are the best QW player, best W:ET player, most likely to be a *, or best anything.
There are good players at this game. There are GREAt players at this game. Thinking that it makes everyone equal is just plain ignorant.
If it’s SOOOO easy then hey, maybe YOU can be the best. That’s obviously what you’re after.
You want a challenge in BRINK? How about no Carb 9, No light body and no GS. Think you still “got the skills”?

EDIT: I never even said I think this game is extremely skill based. I just have a great time playing it.
FUN is what I base GOOD games around. NOT how long it takes to get good.[/QUOTE]

No one ever said they were or wanted to be the best br0, nor was that ever the intention… What made the ET games different than other games? They were FUN because they were complex and challenging in every aspect! And Brink is sub-par in every area. It’s not about being the best, but instead the fact that you can never perfectly master what the game has to offer and it has waaay more versatility in the overall game play. Get that through your head because you are just spamming this thread with your ignorance…

[V1cK_dB]

No one ever said they were or wanted to be the best br0, nor was that ever the intention… What made the ET games different than other games? They were FUN because they were complex and challenging in every aspect! And Brink is sub-par in every area. It’s not about being the best, but instead the fact that you can never perfectly master what the game has to offer. Get that through your head because you are just spamming this thread with your ignorance…

This conversation is WAY over that dude’s head. He is a casual. Doesn’t understand that a high skill gap = fun for competitive people. When I say competitive I don’t just mean people in clans. You don’t have to be in a clan or in a tournament to like that style of play. You just have to like the game to take skill to play. You know…the things that SD was hyping before release, no OHK, no camping, no noobtubes, rewarding aim, etc.

[GLUGLUG]

So you’re saying that every Comp player is at the same skill level? I doubt that.
Skill is WAAAYYY more than Aim and Trickjumps. Creative and effective use of all tools at your disposal is skill.
No wonder you think everyone is the same, you all use the exact same loadout and tactics.
Light body, Carb 9, Seagul or Ritchie. Lots of Grenade Shooting and random strafing.
Yeah, that will be boring.

I have played games since 1985 when I got the NES. I play 25-30 hrs a week and own around 70 games.
But since I don’t wanna be the best every time at every game that makes me a casual?
I like a challenge myself. When I get a new game I go for hard right out of the gate. I like to feel as if I’m getting better at a game. Finally beating that level or that boss.

I feel like I’m still getting better at BRINK every week. So are my friends who ARE at the top of the skill chain.
They get better every week too. You could even get better with practice.

[zenstar]

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;374066]I have played games since 1985 when I got the NES. I play 25-30 hrs a week and own around 70 games.
But since I don’t wanna be the best every time at every game that makes me a casual?[/QUOTE]
Illogical Captain.
I’ve been playing games since the Commadore 64 days and own more than 70 games on my Steam account alone ignoring any of my other PC games and Xbox games (and DS games and PSP games and Iphone games) and I play around 25 hours a week.
Am I a casual? I say yes.
Playing since a certain date / owning a certain number of games / playing a certain number of hours a week do not make you a hardcore gamer. In fact the only metric in that list that indicates hardcore is the “number of hours a week spent gaming” and even then it’s only an indication of possible hardcoreness. And 25 - 30 hours is not in the “definite indication of hardcore” category.

Skill is WAAAYYY more than Aim and Trickjumps. Creative and effective use of all tools at your disposal is skill.

Aren’t “Aim” and “Trickjumps” tools?

[nephandys]

No wonder you think everyone is the same, you all use the exact same loadout and tactics.
Light body, Carb 9, Seagul or Ritchie. Lots of Grenade Shooting and random strafing.

I wish there were other options that were equally as viable if not better. The other options are all fun, but don’t seem as good all around to me.

[zenstar]

I wish there were other options that were equally as viable if not better. The other options are all fun, but don’t seem as good all around to me.

Agreed.

Light body is the most fun. For a game that pushes movement over all else it’s obvious that the light body would tend to be the best. Random strafing / sliding is an obvious choice to prevent being hit. Grenade shooting is powerful.
The Carb 9 and Seagull / Ritchie ??? meh. whatever. I tend to use the Kross for the RPM because I normally play an operative and need to unload quickly at close range when I drop disguise.

The medium and heavy are fun but you lose a lot of movement.
Grenade shooting is too useful not to use and besides, I believe the same person complaining about everyone using grenade shooting also said this (in the same post no less):

Creative and effective use of all tools at your disposal is skill.

[GLUGLUG]

So, enlighten me on what “hardcore is”
All I do is think about gaming. When I’m at work, all I wanna do is go home and play. When I’m at home I’m either playing games, eating or sleeping.
That’s pretty much it. I don’t nesessarily consider myself HC, but definately not casual.

Maybe the will to exploit every little OPd thing in a game is HC.
Maybe desire to be #1 on the leaderboards is indication of HC.
Maybe a PC that makes the NSA jealous is HC.
Maybe playing 80 hrs a week is HC.
Maybe playing in tournaments is HC.

I don’t do any of these. But I’m not a casual.

I use 'nade shooting. Never said I didn’t. It’s just one of those things that everyone uses to excess.
IE, starting every engagement with it. When you can do just as well with a heavy using the rockstedi and kalt,
then you’re skilled. Until then, you haven’t hit the skill ceiling.

[H0RSE]

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;374087]So, enlighten me on what “hardcore is”
All I do is think about gaming. When I’m at work, all I wanna do is go home and play. When I’m at home I’m either playing games, eating or sleeping.
That’s pretty much it. I don’t nesessarily consider myself HC, but definately not casual.

Maybe the will to exploit every little OPd thing in a game is HC.
Maybe desire to be #1 on the leaderboards is indication of HC.
Maybe a PC that makes the NSA jealous is HC.
Maybe playing 80 hrs a week is HC.
Maybe playing in tournaments is HC.

I don’t do any of these. But I’m not a casual.[/QUOTE]

I’ve been playing video games since 1985, on the Atari 5200. I was hooked to games like ‘Joust’ and ‘Vanguard’ and would play them for hours after school. I’m 30 years old now, and I still have the same love and passion video games that I did as a child.

To me, a hardcore gamer is one that not only plays games, but loves playing games. Win or lose, just the act of playing games gives them satisfaction. They also have some sense of understanding of the inner workings of games, whether it be from a technical side or about the games industry in general. They can find enjoyment in a vast array of games and not just the AAA blockbuster titles or new releases.They follow news in the gameworld, anticipate release dates and/or upcoming gaming events and contribute (constructively) to the gaming community. They do not need to be the best or even be good at video games - they just need to truly enjoy them and the gaming world as a whole.

Players who play to be the best, practicing tactics and strategies, fine tuning their skills, searching for the best loadouts/gear, etc. are not necessarily “hardcore” gamers - they are competitive gamers. I also believe that players who make a living playing tournaments and such, also are not necessarily hardcore gamers - they are professional gamers. Hardcore, professional, competitive - you can be one of these, all of these or a combination.

And to stay on topic with Brink - I exclusively play Heavy and do not use Grenade Shooting.

[zenstar]

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;374087]So, enlighten me on what “hardcore is”
All I do is think about gaming. When I’m at work, all I wanna do is go home and play. When I’m at home I’m either playing games, eating or sleeping.
That’s pretty much it. I don’t nesessarily consider myself HC, but definately not casual.

Maybe the will to exploit every little OPd thing in a game is HC.
Maybe desire to be #1 on the leaderboards is indication of HC.
Maybe a PC that makes the NSA jealous is HC.
Maybe playing 80 hrs a week is HC.
Maybe playing in tournaments is HC.

I don’t do any of these. But I’m not a casual.

I use 'nade shooting. Never said I didn’t. It’s just one of those things that everyone uses to excess.
IE, starting every engagement with it. When you can do just as well with a heavy using the lobster and kalt,
then you’re skilled. Until then, you haven’t hit the skill ceiling.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t say you were casual or you were hardcore. I said your argument was not cogent. This neither proves nor disproves your claim, it says that your argument is not cogent. I then gave a counter example that uses your reasoning to come to a completely different conclusion to show you that your argument was not cogent.

And everyone uses grenade shooting “to excess” because it is so powerful that it is basically an automatic buy.
The lobster + kalt + heavy + grenade shooting combo may be rough but it’s not the best combo. Light bodytype still outperforms heavy in almost every situation and as such the heavy combination, while it may be fun to play, is not the competative best choice. It doesn’t matter if the skill ceiling of the heavy is more difficult than juggling rabid and annoyed wolverines, that just makes it worse. The fact that it’s easier to outperform him with less skill shows that the body types need more tweaking.

And again: the game emphasises movement > everything. The heavy is the most gimped in the movement arena and as such is a big walking target that takes too long to get to a fight, is easy to hit and doesn’t last much longer than everyone else at the end of the day. Sure he brings some big guns but if he’s shooting at fast moving lights then he doesn’t hit that much and his bonus is negated by all the slow jogging he has to do.

Don’t get me wrong. As Neph says: the other options are fun, but if you’re talking competition grade decision making then you’re going to be making some cookie-cutter choices and they don’t include the heavy.

[GLUGLUG]

This is what I mean. A skilled player will be able to dominate with everything. Not just the cookie cutter loadouts.
A NOOB has to use the OPd loadouts/tactics to be good. A skilled player will be able to pick up anything and make it work.
Most folks don’t have the SKILL to be as good with the other body types. Therefore, they haven’t hit the skill ceiling that everyone talks about.

[Chris2]

I play games just wearing my grundies, what does that make me?

[zenstar]

I play games just wearing my grundies, what does that make me?

Either slackcore or perverted depending on what games you’re playing

[QUOTE=GLUGLUG;374100]This is what I mean. A skilled player will be able to dominate with everything. Not just the cookie cutter loadouts.
A NOOB has to use the OPd loadouts/tactics to be good. A skilled player will be able to pick up anything and make it work.
Most folks don’t have the SKILL to be as good with the other body types. Therefore, they haven’t hit the skill ceiling that everyone talks about.[/QUOTE]

Talking competatively (why are we suddenly bringing noobs into this?) the skill ceiling on a heavy doesn’t matter because he is an invalid choice. For fun he may be a laugh but for effectiveness the light is better. Most people derive fun from being an effective part of their team and hence most people will prefer light over heavy even if they have hit the heavy skill cap (if it even is higher than the light skill cap. it makes no real difference if it isn’t).

And if you’re effective with the best choice /loadout possible then you’ve pretty much hit the game’s skill ceiling. It may take skill to make some crazy 5 minute long chain of jumps but if it doesn’t do anything it’s not a valid addition to the skill ceiling.

[Verticae]

Most folks don’t have the SKILL to be as good with the other body types.

Stop being a casual. Once you enter into high-level competitive play, you lose the moment you start putting yourself at a disadvantage. From all your posts, the only thing that becomes very clear, is that you have little to no understanding of how high-level gaming works.

Tell me: do you think people like rapha and cooller are ‘unskilled’ because they don’t play entire matches using the MG?

I play games just wearing my grundies, what does that make me?

British.