If you’re defending aim punch for the sake of new players, you’re wrong, why? Because there’s no need for it, new players will have to learn how to play, there shouldn’t be mechanics in place thst cater to them. It’s the same thing with random crits in tf2.
If you’re defending for a comp perspective, sorry, wrong again, it stacks fights heavily in favor of defenders who have crazy amounts of good sightlines.
[quote=“srswizard;69971”]
You guys keep defending aimpunch from a pub player’s POV, and pub player’s POV alone.[/quote]
But viewkick is even less of an issue in comp games because people there are good enough to win most of the fights that they get the first shot in anyways.
Ok I have a hard time wraping my head around the argumentation.
On one hand it is said that aimpunch is dumping down the game and there to help non competive players. Implying that they get an unfair advantage they shouldn’t get, while at the same time arguing that aimpunch is only a problem in competive, when players are high skilled.
So why isn’t a good player benefiting from aimpunch and if he doesn’t, why is it influencing fights of similar skill level then?
When he does benefit from it, then how is it helping players, that are less skilled than him and likewise how does it give him a upper hand against someone on his level that can utilize it just aswell?
And more interesting, if aimpunch gives such a huge combat advantage. How is it, that playing in a way, that one is utilizing that huge advantage to the fullest, not deemed part of the skillset. That distinguishes good players from bad players in DirtyBomb?
Sure aimpunch takes away, from aim being the main deciding factor in a fight. But so does every single Merc ability, the differences in HP, in Weapon Damage, in Teamplayer presence, mapdesign, and so on and on.
Simply said winning fights fair and square, only depending on aiming skills, is not what this game is about. Its asymetric nature pretty much prevents this on every corner. And therefore aim is simply not the Yardstick by which skill is measured in this game.
Doesn’t mean that it can’t be competive, just that you have to compete in another field compared to other shooters you might be used to.
CS:GO’s aimpunch isn’t part of the core gunplay. It’s part of the core gameplay and its role is to emphasize the importance of managing your economy properly so you can afford armor, but there is no aimpunch at all on buy rounds. The fact that you can do something about aimpunch and that it’s your fault for screwing up your economy if you have to deal with aimpunch is the reason why it’s OK in CS:GO.
Dirty Bomb has no way to prevent the player from experiencing aimpunch and telling people to “dodge” isn’t very helpful either when you’re going up against players that are half decent. Contrary to what you seem to believe, the movement in this game is actually very tame and anybody that has played quake, unreal, tribes, or even tf2 will have no problem tracking a proxy that’s wall jumping all over the place.
If you really want to understand things…look at how god like the guns feel now compared to before, that sums it up.
Fire fights FEEL better because of less aim punch, THAT is what people are trying to stress here. Gunfights aren’t fun when aimpunch is such a huge factor in how someone aims, when it’s like it is now…sure it’s there, but it doesn’t determine who wins a fight NEARLY as much as it used to.
Agree. And ffs, as one “beeing raised” by Quake-engines it simply feels unnatural. 
[quote=“Gi.Am;70021”]On one hand it is said that aimpunch is dumping down the game and there to help non competive players. Implying that they get an unfair advantage they shouldn’t get, while at the same time arguing that aimpunch is only a problem in competive, when players are high skilled.
So why isn’t a good player benefiting from aimpunch and if he doesn’t, why is it influencing fights of similar skill level then?
When he does benefit from it, then how is it helping players, that are less skilled than him and likewise how does it give him a upper hand against someone on his level that can utilize it just aswell?[/quote]
The assumption srswizard made is that it’s in the game to give new players an advantage because no matter how good a player is there are going to be times he gets shot first. Whether that’s the real reason it’s in the game I don’t know. But as for the high vs high skill level part,
It’s like if they suddenly had a patch that removed all aim punch but gave the first shot double damage. It’s minor enough that at high level it makes a significant difference.
Does it affect the ‘intended’ low skill people in pubs as well? Yes. Is this a bad thing. Yep. Does anyone give a fuck? Not really, not compared to competitive play, which is why we’re not too upset about that. Yes I hate those 1/10 times where the guy gets lucky enough to land really good shots first and the kick goes all wrong and I lose by a fraction, but it’s 1/10 and it’s pub play. Losing a fight in competitive because you fired 1/10 of a second late on the other hand is a big deal.
Both players are affected by aim punch, but the guy that hits first gets 2 - maybe even 5 depending on the gun - shots where he doesn’t have to deal with it at all. The other guy has to deal with it for the whole fight.
[quote=“god1;69995”][quote=“srswizard;69971”]
You guys keep defending aimpunch from a pub player’s POV, and pub player’s POV alone.[/quote]
But viewkick is even less of an issue in comp games because people there are good enough to win most of the fights that they get the first shot in anyways.
[/quote]
What? That’s like the opposite of the truth lol. In pubs people are bad enough where you can kill them while hardly getting hit at all. Aimpunch is way worse in actual matches and scrims because all of a sudden aiming for the head is a bad thing. It’s better to just aim for the body at medium and long range cause you’re constantly getting aimpunched too hard to reliably get headshots.
@Gi.Am The reasons people hate aimpunch and are fine with other non-aim related gameplay elements is because things like abilities usually take skill or intelligence to use properly and because there are clear ways to counter those other aspects of the game. Aimpunch is unavoidable and encourages people to go for easier shots than they would if there was no aimpunch. Not only is there no counter to this mechanic, but it’s the only one in the game that rewards people for going for easy shots instead of going for harder ones.
Aimpunch is in the game for balance reasons. I think, in DB at least, it has more to do with balancing guns and making it a dial that allows them to differentiate a lot of guns that do similar functions. Without it the guns will mostly be the same outside of damage per bullet, recoil and spread. Aimpunch gives them another dial to tinker with. That’s my opinion and it’s supported by something I believe Exedore said during his last dev stream.
This also makes sense, but it’s a lame method of weapon balance imo. At the end of the day there’s always a gun of each type that rises above anyway so it doesn’t even make a difference. Unless you mean balancing between types, then yes it does, still lame though.
Aimpunch is a terrible mechanism for balance because of how it innately favors defense. Having another way to make guns different is unnecessary beyond range, fire rate, damage per bullet, max spread, how fast spread grows, etc. etc. etc.
It doesn’t help gun balance, it doesn’t make it more exciting or varied, it doesn’t do anything but artificially emphasize the impact of hitting first, which is a big enough advantage on its own anyways.
There’s a reason most objectives end in the favor of defenders. That would definitely go down if aimpunch were removed.
This also makes sense, but it’s a lame method of weapon balance imo. At the end of the day there’s always a gun of each type that rises above anyway so it doesn’t even make a difference. Unless you mean balancing between types, then yes it does, still lame though.[/quote]
I agree that it’s lame. But that doesn’t change the fact that it can be and is used as a weapon differentiation dial. Everyone wants the guns in this game to be different but nobody is willing for them to act terribly different either.
This is the problem with games that have a huge range of weapons that all do the same thing. Ultimately there’s going to be a best choice. This is in contrast to Quake where every single weapon is relevant because of situation and thus they can be balanced properly.
You simply cannot have 5 assault rifles and make them all good, 4 are gonna suck.
The only way that comes even close to achieving this is putting the good weapons on loadouts with inferior perks, forcing players to choose guns or perks. Even then, ultimately there will be a ‘best’ loadout, even if it doesn’t have the ‘best’ gun. This is the type of game that was chosen.
This is the problem with games that have a huge range of weapons that all do the same thing. Ultimately there’s going to be a best choice. This is in contrast to Quake where every single weapon is relevant because of situation and thus they can be balanced properly.
You simply cannot have 5 assault rifles and make them all good, 4 are gonna suck.
The only way that comes even close to achieving this is putting the good weapons on loadouts with inferior perks, forcing players to choose guns or perks. Even then, ultimately there will be a ‘best’ loadout, even if it doesn’t have the ‘best’ gun. This is the type of game that was chosen.[/quote]
I don’t think using it for balance is a good excuse and I also don’t think it’s impossible to have multiple guns of the same class be equally viable. As long as they have clear weaknesses and strengths, there’ll always be a rotation of different guns. A good example of this is BF4. As terrible as that game was overall, competitive players would rotate between the ACE-23, ACE-52, SCAR-H, AEK, FAMAS, ACW-R, and in some cases the M16A4 depending on what role they were playing for their team because each of these guns were the best at something but not everything.
The only stat I can think of that would do that is damage fall off. Damage/spread etc won’t do it because there’ll be one gun that has enough of both that it’s the best.
Said it before, I’ll say it again; still topping the leaderboards in almost every game I play with at least a 2:1 K/D. Still barely noticing aimpunch. Still compensating for it just fine, only now it’s even easier and I’m getting headshots all day every day.
Aimpunch is not Satan, or Hitler, it is simply a mechanic that requires the player to keep an eye on their aim and compensate for flinching. You cannot aim at head-height, run round corners into enemy fire, and be guaranteed headshots.
It also gives lower-health mercs like Sparks a chance against higher-health mercs like Fragger at any range if they take them by surprise. Shooting first is not a sufficient advantage against someone with nearly twice your health and superior weaponry. Assault rifle mercs and snipers would dominate this game without aimpunch. Mounted turrets would be even more lethal without aimpunch.
If you cannot provide a reasonable alternative to those problems then please, kindly, do everyone a favour and stop screaming and wailing about having to actually aim your gun in a firefight. If you can think of a way to solve these problems whilst still removing aimpunch, then go ahead and actually contribute something to these threads for once.
Maybe we should just remove recoil altogether? Why not give everyone a free aimbot when they install Dirty Bomb? Aiming is hard, after all. Things like aimpunch and recoil make my crosshair move and that’s bad.
Better yet, please lower the movement speed of Sparks and Proxy and Aura. It’s too high and they move randomly from side to side. There’s no predicting that pattern and it’s too hard to manually adjust my aim.
Feel free to tell me how awful I am for not being terribly affected by something that apparently cripples you, as usual. It doesn’t change the fact that I somehow get consistent headshots and you don’t.
Don’t notice viewkick now, and never noticed it before, so i think they should move it back so all the poor aim whiners have something to blame their poor aim on.
Ffs…what part of it makes gun fights less fun is so hard to understand?
What part of first shot advantage is, you deal damage first, stacking the fight in your favor, making throwing off their aim totally unneccssary, is so hard to get? And how it favors defense so much?
It’s not difficult to see how the game has changed since the update last week, fire fights are noticeably quicker, and you’re more likely to land your headshots more easily since your aim isn’t being thrown off every time you get hit.
If they want aim punch to stay, then it needs to be purely visual, having someone take damage and have their gun kick up upon doing so just makes the gun fights less fun in a fast paced shooter like this.
It makes sense for Counter Strike, it does not make sense for this game, plain and simple. And if you can’t grasp that, go play Call of Booty for a bit…notice how ever since they added flinch, having the Anti Flinch perk has basically become standard on everyone’s loadout.
Even Call of Duty players realize how annoying it is…and they play the most annoying game out there.
CS:GO’s aimpunch isn’t part of the core gunplay. It’s part of the core gameplay and its role is to emphasize the importance of managing your economy properly so you can afford armor, but there is no aimpunch at all on buy rounds. The fact that you can do something about aimpunch and that it’s your fault for screwing up your economy if you have to deal with aimpunch is the reason why it’s OK in CS:GO.
Dirty Bomb has no way to prevent the player from experiencing aimpunch and telling people to “dodge” isn’t very helpful either when you’re going up against players that are half decent. Contrary to what you seem to believe, the movement in this game is actually very tame and anybody that has played quake, unreal, tribes, or even tf2 will have no problem tracking a proxy that’s wall jumping all over the place.
[/quote]
Actually CS:GO does still have aimpunch w/ armor+helmet. It is subtle, but there are videos showing it still exists. It’s also random, for example headshot’s don’t cause aimpunch, but other areas do. Much like this game, CS has been dumbed down to cater to more casual players. Competing in pro matches is now more about team synchronization, and well placed smokes and flashes.
The day that I can shoot at a sniper and he can’t headshot me just as easily is the day that I can play comfortably. That and a fix for audio lag.