sick6 newb's feedback post. Is it that time again?


(fubar) #1

These are, without exception, strictly competitively oriented.

Gamplay:

  • Spawntimes
    This has been brought up over and over again.
    There are multiple issues with the current system in place: One being the synchronized timer between Attacker and Defender team, another the extremely inaccurate representation of it (too much leeway given, ie: Dying on 22-23 will in most cases not result in a missed wave but instead allow you to respawn regardless).
    As many of you are aware, in the current state of the game: Attackers and Defenders both (Stopwatch only) will always be spawning at the exact same time.
    This creates a heavily unbalanced pace towards the attacker side, not only are they already put at a disadvantage of having longer attack routes, they now also are thrown into a situation that will, always, result in attacks being executed on their own fullspawn. What this does is further slow down the game and break the pace.
    There’s no safe way to upkeep pressure as an Attacker without being at constant risk of being taken out at a full spawnwave and as such you are, as Attacker, severely punished for timed attacks. Even if you were to execute an attack on a primary objective, with getting the Defender team on a fullspawn as focus, it currently gives you no benefit due to the attack routes.
    As an example we can take the first stage of Bridge, from an attackers point of view (this applies all maps):
    Attackers synchronize their entry with the spawntimes to take full effect of wiping Defenders for the longest amount possible, standard stuff, every team does it or at the very least tries to utilize it.
    But what if your attack fails? Let’s assume your team manages to take 4 Defending players out for a 20+ second wave timer, what happens next? Absolutely Nothing. Due to the fact that both teams will always spawn at the same time and attackers additionally to that, having a way longer route to the objective. We’ve accomplished absolutely nothing. We did not get rewarded - at all - for having killed 4 Players all of whom are advantageously positioned already due to Defender bias. The entire map has reset, we’ve just wasted a whole minute on attack without having accomplished ANYTHING.
    It’s a simple problem with a simple solution. Introduce an offset between the spawntimes. Something random that changes on a per-game basis. 1-10 seconds is all it takes. Or even better, to give attackers a little of that advantage they need, decrease their spawnwavetimer from 24 seconds to 19 seconds. This would not only promote much better gameflow, for both viewers and players, but allow attackers to upkeep pressure on objectives.
    Not to mention adds another, albeit small, skill gap between players that are able to keep track of spawntimes (ie counting 19 and 24 seconds) and players that simply aren’t. This positively affects “spawnrapes” just as much, as you now have to time your explosives according to your Enemy’s spawntime as opposed to your own. Also, this would take having to figure out your opponent’s spawntime in first place, whether it be by scouting it out or actually paying attention to the game and judging it based off of selfkills and their arrivals to certain areas.

    A few forum related discussions, showcasing several suggestions made by the community for a change to this system, such as introducing Dynamic offsets, “Dystopia spawnsystem”, and more. Whether you’re a fan of the one or the other is highly irrelevant, the fact is that this game drastically needs a change.

    Personally I’d vote for something as simple as reducing the Attacker’s wavetimer to 19seconds from 24 and leave Defenders as is.

    http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/40807-Simple-idea-for-a-new-Respawn-System?highlight=spawntime
    http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/40365-Spawn-times?highlight=spawntime
    http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/37557-Thoughts-on-Dirty-bombs-Spawn-system?highlight=spawntime

  • C4 explosive timer
    I believe the timer on C4 explosives could benefit from a small buff. 35 seconds perhaps.
    This would promote more side objectives actually being planted, as opposed to focus fired with explosive and… Give attackers a little of that edge they need.
    Having to defend 2 plants on Terminal, or even just a single plant on Underground, for TWO full spawn waves is a little bit extreme.
    The fact that you’ve essentially wiped the Defenders once already and planted the charge is, in most cases, a massive feat by itself, but now being presented by having to wipe the Defending team twice, in a row? (Notice how spawntimes are related to this as well?)
    Again, nothing but a simple fix. Defenders wouldn’t have to be so worry free, all the while the game pace is being sped up and attackers will actually be rewarded, as opposed to punished, for having accomplished something.

  • PRIVATE SERVERS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
    Why isn’t this a priority? Everyone wants them. Casuals as well as competitive players. You’ve hinted time and time again about wanting to introduce a “system”, why the secrecy? This needs to be done asap if you want to upkeep a competitive scene.

  • Ragdoll animations
    This is a bug more than anything. (I hope?)
    Gibbing is tough. Ragdoll animations are on acid. 9 out of 10 times I can’t headshot the downed player I just killed due to the simple fact that his entire body is spinning around and breakdancing on the floor.

    Hilarious bonus gif to showcase funky animations. (Credits go to iNytz)
    [video]https://fat.gfycat.com/DrearyPitifulHeron.webm[/video]

  • Attacker spawn last stage Trainyard
    Heavily related to spawntimes (gosh, shut up already!), but attackers could benefit from a slight buff by having their spawns moved a little closer (perhaps inside the first building, you know the one, the one that gets smashed in by the train?)

  • Community Maps
    Very needed. Be it via steam workshop or even something as dull as creators having to submit them to you directly. As the chances of us actually getting dedicated servers, on which we could run said maps/mods/others are slim to none. The default 5 maps are… linear, boring, bad, whatever other adjective you can come up with.

  • Unit collision…
    Please? I see absolutely no reason against it. Are you afraid of player stacking people to get out of map ranges? Don’t worry, that’s happening already.

  • Separation of sounds, voice chat, announcer, cutscenes etc.:
    The Dialogue volume slider bundles all of these, I’d much like to be able to turn off the in-game chat sounds as well as cutscenes and the frequent, unnecessary yelling of my character without being penalized at the loss of important objective announcers.

  • ZoomFov and Sensitivity: SetFovSensitivityScale is not a viable option.
    Self explanatory. Either keep a 1:1 Sensitivity for scopes or give us an option for such. FOV can be argued an intended feature, I leave this up to you. All it takes is a secondary sensitivity slider for scopes/ironsights.

  • Viewmodel aka drawgun:
    Any possibility at all to be granted a feature that removes the gun and hand models from your screen entirely? They take up way too much screen space, block important information and are otherwise just utterly obnoxious and intrusive.
    I understand that, given your weapon skinning and ironsights this is unlikely to happen, but… pretty please?

  • Video cut scenes:
    Please. Please don’t make me watch them anymore. I beg you


  • Accessibility to seeing opponent team classes:
    I should not ever be able to see my opponents team’s selected merc by a simple press of TAB. I can understand wanting to see the loadout POSSIBILITIES the opponent has, but not the currently selected merc. Too much information is being handed out for free.
    Same deal as spawntimes really, it just takes out any and all surprise out of the game. These are things I shouldn’t just… know without ever even having seen a single opponent.

  • Healthbar + Ghostsystem on enemies
    Again… too much information is being given away for free. Arguably we have hitsounds, hit markers, what not. We can judge how much damage we’ve dealt, but in no way should I be able to just look at my opponent and know. This takes away important decision making, not to mention an extra layer of clutter on my screen.

  • Separation/Rework of HUD Elements
    I’d love to see the Spawnwave timer and Gametime to be separated from eachother. Also, let us edit/rework the fireteam, or at the very least move and resize it?
    Mini map needs to be re-sizable. At higher resolutions it’s just too tiny and the 2-step zoom is useless as it’ll either zoom in too far or zoom out entirely.
    Objective Icons are drawn and displayed as overlays, it blocks out your crosshair entirely and should be re-sizable without having to change your entire HUD’s resolution.
    Option to remove HUD elements entirely? If I wanted to not display the chat at all, or my ammo, or hp, or anything really. Right now the only two options you’re given are HUD and… no HUD.

  • Demos.
    Self-explanatory

  • Underground bugged airstrikes
    Few areas will detonate your airstrike and give you the full cooldown timer, even though the airstrike didn’t go through at all.


  • Mounted MG buggyness
    Player models acting up, hit registrations being wonky. Stuck in MGs. Not being able to use it at all… Tons of bugs.
    Perhaps work in a feature such as ETs in which you can destroy a mounted gun with explosives and be able to reconstruct would be worthy consideration as well?

  • Walking/Moving while Crouched
    What’s the point? It still produces sound and offers otherwise no benefits.

Balancing:

[ul][li] Instagibs vs freedom of movement[/li]
We really can’t have both. Sniping is, in comparison to any FPS title ever, way too easy and rewarding.
Currently Vasili is just straight up overpowered. Personally I’d love for the instagib to go, seeing as how it breaks the game pace and renders medics useless. Good snipers in this game have become a hardcarry to the point where you’re FORCED to snipe as a counter-measure due to the effectiveness of the instagib.
This would not affect his viability at all, really. You can still relatively fast gib a person in a single shot, you can still put a stop or at the very least delay a push with well placed headshots. Taking away the instagib would draw the sniper’s attention towards taking out supportive classes (medics) as opposed to straight up taking out the damage dealers and call it a day.
You already have all the positional advantages as a sniper to begin with. You can 1shot kill a person, you can jump/strafe snipe without any real punishment to your aim and you aren’t affected by fall-off damage as every other merc is in this game. Why would you be rewarded with an instagib as well?
Teams should be allowed to make decisions in their merc picks rather than being forced to have a sniper due to his extreme effectiveness.

However. I do propose a removal of scope sway and crosshair displacement upon ADS to counteract above nerf and effectively increase headshot consistency.

[li] Sparks gun[/li]
I hate it. I hate it so much.
The revive mechanic is silly enough, but the fact that you can spam tap fire the gun ALL GAME LONG without ever overcharging/overheating or being punished by cooldowns is ridiculous.
Sparks can singlehandedly take out Generators and E.V’s in a fashion unlike any other merc due to the way it’s gun works as well (intended? bug? can we all just agree it does too much damage regardless?)

[li] Kek-10[/li]
Currently the most overpowered SMG there is. It’s accuracy combined with damage, clipsize and firerate outshines every single gun there is. People even sacrifice ability enhancing augments for it. It needs a nerf badly.

[li] Nader direct hits close range[/li]
Direct hits with the Grenade Launcher should immediately detonate, always, regardless of distance and fuse-time.

[li] Sentry headshots[/li]
Why is this a thing? Sentries should not be able to headshot.

[li] Fletcher/Aura more smg access[/li]
Either the blishlok needs a massive buff to set it on-par with the other SMGs or Fletcher/Aura need to be given access to the other SMGs in this game. Both classes, while interesting and having fun abilities, are not played simply because their gun/killing potential is, in comparison with every other SMG based class, useless.

[li] Arty ability[/li]
I like arty. I like the idea of an artillery, but in order for him to be viable we need to see a drastic change in Ability. He’s already at a severe disadvantage due to this weapon loadouts. Borrowing from RtCW/ET mechanic, have his artillery drop multiple shells over time.
ie: ET’s Artillery: Call in Artillery -> 5 seconds later the target area gets market with smoke -> 5 seconds later the first projectile flies in. In the next 5 seconds 4 more projectiles fly in a squared area close to the marked spot.

Picture to illustrate: 
<img src="//sd-forums-uploads.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/2X/e/e27d2dde667823670a49d1f12e3bdd7606918170.jpg" width="666" height="500"><br/>

<img src="//sd-forums-uploads.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/2X/3/3758c9e031b7588794050c69e4b79ed82eb4123c.jpg" width="666" height="500"><br/>

[li] Rotation of airstrikes:[/li]
Any possibility of being able to rotate/steer airstrikes in the near future? You kept similar in the way ET/RtCW handles, by striking in a 90° angle from the originating point, but left out the ability to rotate the airstrike by switching one’s position before it’s being fully executed or called in.
Feels like I could just throw an airstrike and… selfkill, because my job’s done, I wasted my ability and there’s nothing further I can do to control it or otherwise aid it.
Being able to rotate it adds another factor of skill to it, something that isn’t too complicated to learn and otherwise nothing of too much importance if not utilized at all if you choose to do, or rather not do so.

[li] Differing Character model height[/li]
Another thing: Please fix character model heights. It feels absolutely ridiculous and weird switching between regular sized characters to smaller ones (ie kira and sparks) and having to aim UP to get the crosshair onto head height. Right now in default position the crosshair of Kira barely reaches the nipples of a Sawbonez.

Where as the Sawbonez is aiming WAY above the Kira but is not affected by it because she has a ridiculously large head hitbox that goes far beyond her actual model.
[/ul]


(Glottis-3D) #2

good stuff. strange, we didnt speak about all those suggestions before…

…oh wait!!!

=) agree on 100%


(47__) #3

I agree with everything honestly. Especially private servers.


(poiuasd) #4

They said on the last night’s stream that instead of private servers there’s gonna be custom game lobbies.


(alphabeta) #5

Fantastic post. I can’t agree enough on sniper headshot. One sniper on Trainyard can own most of the last objective by headshot and insta-gib.


(BMXer) #6

Best feedback post yet. SD, stop drop and do everything suggested!

To add to the sniper discussion… the OP didn’t mention the wall hack nade… kinda piles onto the problem/issue imo.

And about Arty and his strike ability… ETQW had a really cool mechanic that may or may not be cool with arty… You could target one spot then quickly redirect the target to another spot before the shots actually hit. And the coolest part was you could redirect them up into the sky. They would fly around up there for a sec and you could redirect again to a target and they would all hit at once. You could get the arty strike to come in almost horizontal in some spots. Kinda hard to explain but if you played ETQW you know what Im talking about and it was super cool.


(light_sh4v0r) #7

Yes, great feedback.
Not sure redirected artillery works in DB, with all the high buildings etc. In ETQW it worked because the maps were much more open.
I agree it was supercool though :slight_smile:


(Glottis-3D) #8

sniper instagib is overpowered to retardness.
no counter to a good sniper in a good position.


(spookify) #9

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;532926]sniper instagib is overpowered to retardness.
no counter to a good sniper in a good position.[/QUOTE]

Short spawn times, small maps and no forced spawns hurt the sniper. You have to contantly pull off great shots over and over and over to be effective. Its possible but hard because one screw up and the attackers are through.


(montheponies) #10

Excellent post.

Missing anti-cheat, but then mebbe less of an issue if your doing pugs/scrims mainly.

Private servers arent just needed for clan practice / scrims, but for community based pubs. Allowing the server owner to extend the player numbers and set a specific rotation (ideally without the interruption of lobbies every map change)…as a relaxing alternative to MM I’d like to just jump on a server with a group of known ‘names’ not necessarily friends but regulars that you can banter with and generally be relatively sure arent sporting the latest and greatest cheat.

On the subject of pubs and lobbies, find a way to sort out merc choice sync in-game. Every map change collapses the player numbers meaning far more time wasted just trying to get into the bloody game. Ditch the lobby.


(imfakeyo) #11

Honestly, all this hate about Vassili and you even point out that other games aren’t as easy? CoD Promod, Counter Strike, TF2 all are well known competitive games and all of them have snipers as a MUST in a team. CoD - bodyshot kills, CS - bodyshot kills, TF2 - HS kills. This game even has a random scope location every time you scope in so you are punished slightly on longer ranges. The only thing with Vass I don’t agree with is the jump shots, it’s annoying, it’s obnoxious and it’s something you shouldn’t have to focus on. I feel like he needs a nerf in that regard. Without instagibs he’s almost worthless.

A sniper not being able to be effective at range is mindless. Expanding on that so you’re not like watwhy!!!.. is that you take away instagibs and you down a player that’s at range, behind a wall, in a window, body falls around a corner, etc . Vassili can’t do anything about that, a medic jumps over and defibs instantly and it’s like you never shot a bullet. Your impact went from fragger to annoyance. People won’t play Vassili in comp just because of that change that you think won’t make a difference or it’s a fair change so you can play your AR with no threat of running or sitting openly? People in CS, CoD, TF2, BF… all learned how to play around a good sniper. You can already see how hard it is to play Vassili on a close quarters map is (Terminal), imagine how hard it would be to have an impact on certain sections of that map if your change was to be implemented… it would be an almost useless merc if the opponent played around it correctly.

I agree with all your other points, but please, spend a bit more time thinking about Vassili and his impact on the game.


(fubar) #12

[QUOTE=imfakeyo;532940]Honestly, all this hate about Vassili and you even point out that other games aren’t as easy? CoD Promod, Counter Strike, TF2 all are well known competitive games and all of them have snipers as a MUST in a team. CoD - bodyshot kills, CS - bodyshot kills, TF2 - HS kills. This game even has a random scope location every time you scope in so you are punished slightly on longer ranges. The only thing with Vass I don’t agree with is the jump shots, it’s annoying, it’s obnoxious and it’s something you shouldn’t have to focus on. I feel like he needs a nerf in that regard. Without instagibs he’s almost worthless.

A sniper not being able to be effective at range is mindless. Expanding on that so you’re not like watwhy!!!.. is that you take away instagibs and you down a player that’s at range, behind a wall, in a window, body falls around a corner, etc . Vassili can’t do anything about that, a medic jumps over and defibs instantly and it’s like you never shot a bullet. Your impact went from fragger to annoyance. People won’t play Vassili in comp just because of that change that you think won’t make a difference or it’s a fair change so you can play your AR with no threat of running or sitting openly? People in CS, CoD, TF2, BF… all learned how to play around a good sniper. You can already see how hard it is to play Vassili on a close quarters map is (Terminal), imagine how hard it would be to have an impact on certain sections of that map if your change was to be implemented… it would be an almost useless merc if the opponent played around it correctly.

I agree with all your other points, but please, spend a bit more time thinking about Vassili and his impact on the game.[/QUOTE]

Last I checked you can’t strafe at full speed, jump and shoot in any of those games without having it affect your bullet path MASSIVELY(or even to the point where it’s straight up impossible to land any shots, period). The scope sway is nothing really, it’s minor and very easily dealt with. I’m a mediocre sniper at most and I’m absolutely terrified of the day a good sniper starts playing this game. He has too much of an impact on the flow as of right now. As said in my original post, you can’t have BOTH. The freedom in movement without being affected in your shooting and the instagib. One or the other, not both.


(imfakeyo) #13

None of the games I mentioned bar Battlefield have scope sway, they were never there or removed from the games for competitive. I come from Counter Strike and I stop before I shoot either way and still play well as Vassili. I don’t see this being a problem if it was removed and wouldn’t really fix a lot if it was. You could jump and shoot in Call of Duty 4 Promod without any negatives at all. Then again, this game is a lot different to that and I feel it should be removed. I don’t think you should be able to jump and shoot, at least not with any more accuracy than a noscope. I feel you should be able to noscope in this game with a little bit more accuracy as at the moment, it’s WAY too random if you’re pushed or flanked unexpectedly, I gasp if I hit one, let alone two when a guy is near touching me. In every other competitive game there is at least a decent chance of hitting one, in this game, it’s not even worth trying in a competitive match.

In CS, CoD, TF2, BF, etc you can counter strafe and stop yourself more or less instantly to take a shot. It’s not hard to get used to but it would make Vassili a little less OP if it is how you say, move and shoot. It shouldn’t be like that and I’ve never noticed it because I counter strafe as a habit from playing a **** ton of Counter Strike.

-moving whilst firing
-jumping whilst firing
+more scope-in inaccuracy (you’re not on your targets head as soon as you ADS)
+slight noscope accuracy
+slight fall-off damage on longer ranges (nothing drastic, but not able to oneshot a fragger from across the map. It SHOULD still be a threat)


(Malkara) #14

I like the jumping moving headshots, reminds of the thousands of hours I put into call of duty 2 on rifle only servers.

People always say it’s stupid how much impact a good vasili makes on gameplay, but then a good (class) should always impact gameplay, tis what makes a person good. Yes you can instagib if you manage a headshot, good luck doing that [consistently!] vs a moving aura or proxy.

There is a reason small corridors are smoked and stuff in CS:GO, to prevent the sniper shots, maybe that’s all this game needs, a smoke, which is included in the (final) class list and might be what the game needs.

I think it’s silly to start heavily nerfing classes at this point, when it seems that skill is the deciding factor, not the classes themselves.


(fubar) #15

Plenty of people already do it, in competitive games nonetheless. I’d like to argue the skill ceiling and movement of a player is a lot higher than of those in public servers, where even I, a horrible sniper, can easily rack up 50-60 kills playing Vasili. Players like taimou, Linkzr, chickenwaffles and valen consistently DESTROY top teams with relative ease.

Nonetheless. I thought some more about my Vasili suggestions, while… I still want the instagib removed, having the scope sway and crosshair-displacement of ADS’ing removed may just be something to counteract the nerf. I’m sure most snipers would welcome this with open arms.


(Kroad) #16

[QUOTE=montheponies;532929]Excellent post.

Missing anti-cheat, but then mebbe less of an issue if your doing pugs/scrims mainly.[/QUOTE]

more of an issue if anything, you dont want cheaters playing and winning cups


(Kroad) #17

[QUOTE=montheponies;532929]Excellent post.

Missing anti-cheat, but then mebbe less of an issue if your doing pugs/scrims mainly.[/QUOTE]

more of an issue if anything, you dont want cheaters playing and winning cups

skadoodle played and he wasn’t all that hot :wink:

And meh, I don’t really find snipers to be overpowered. If you consider it to be a support class then yeah, it gets too many kills, but if it’s considered a fragging class (and i don’t see any reason as to why it shouldn’t be) then sniper is around as strong as fragger.
I’m not opposed to some nerfs, but I just feel like removing the instagib would make sniper completely useless, since he plays at a range where he won’t be able to gib without it. Snipers never get as many kills as their fraggers, the only reason those kills are worth as much as a fragger’s is that a higher ratio of the sniper’s kills are gibs.

vasili will be a lot more balanced with mercs like phantom and especially red eye, but of course devs can’t release finished content yet


(DogGunn) #18

Good post. Despite custom lobbies, I would like to see private servers.


(Talespin) #19

d e l e t e
v a s s i l i


(sunshinefats) #20

I would say Vas is indeed overpowered and would also like the instagib gone. IMHO a sniper class is, by nature, a support class traditionally, and as such shouldn’t be able to shut down an enemy team by himself(which is currently the case with average or better snipers). Rather, I think he should be geared more towards slowing the enemy down by dropping key players and punishing the opposing team for coming into the areas he’s covering. And he can do all this without an instagib. Ultimately this game is all about time, and without instagib you can still delay the opposing players a good amount without it seeming unfair. The way it currently is a decent sniper can watch the timer, and then drop most of the enemy team for an entire spawn wave when the time is right basically. I don’t believe 1 player should be able to do this quite so effectively. If this maps were designed a little differently I wouldn’t feel it was an issue, but we know they’re not going to change much at this point, and as they are you are literally forced(at some points) to run through a sniper’s line of sight…a sniper who can instagib pretty easily…I suppose it is possible that the introduction of some of the remaining classes could counteract this, but by that logic fragger shouldn’t have been nerfed like he was either…yet he was. My grandma used to say, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander and I think that applies here to an extent. But then again, as you can tell, I’m still bitter about the fragger nerfs so maybe I’m not as objective about nerfing other classes as I should be :wink: