If someone is already downed, why shouldn’t headshots deal more damage to them than they do currently?
You already killed them, you shouldn’t have to essentially kill them twice to deny a revive.
And yes you can knife them but often times that isn’t an option, especially if you’re trying to be quick since the Revive is basically instant and has protection until they fire back.
if you can hit their head when they’re down, chances are he’s being gibbed in no time
bigger problems arise when your angle doesn’t allow you to hit his head, so I would argue to rather change something there (or gibbing hp in general)
Well, i think the principal issue is the INVULNIRABILITY when you got revive.
It’s a game when you need more bullets than the others games. So when you kill some one, and the guy is revive but you can’t fight back vs him…The only solution is to fire to the medic but the guy just revived gonna kill you.
[quote=“peridotLava;18607”]Well, i think the principal issue is the INVULNIRABILITY when you got revive.
It’s a game when you need more bullets than the others games. So when you kill some one, and the guy is revive but you can’t fight back vs him…The only solution is to fire to the medic but the guy just revived gonna kill you.[/quote]
Even then though I don’t think that’s the main issue for me personally, cause once they start shooting they lose the shield. Though that is entirely up to your opinion and I won’t bash you for it.
For me it just frustrates how much effort I have to put it to deny a revive, when all the Medic has to do is be in the area and press a key to get him up.
Maybe the idea is to make it so finishing and revive are all within the same range to work, but the problem is, if the Medic isn’t already there to revive, or isn’t helping to keep his team mates alive, then he shouldn’t undo the work. Because despite what people may think the kill time is quite slow compared to most shooters.
I’d just be happy if a body didn’t spin after going down. This is a huge problem for Vassili since you can’t pump 2 shots (FEL IX or Moa) into a spinning body to gib them before a medic can easily get a revive on them. So you have to hit the head…which is nearly impossible on a randomly spinning body.
It would be nice if the body always did the stand up then fall animation and stayed in one spot. This would allow you to hit the head on the way down predictably regardless of gun use and it would offset some of a good medics effectiveness. However, it could be by design that the bodies fall and spin like they do to make sure that medics have some time to revive. That’s a question for SD to answer.
Can a medic instantly revive someone who just instantly died?
If so, there needs to be a small gap of time (~1second or lower) where the medic can’t revive someone that immediately went down. If you do that, you’ll have enough time to down someone with a medic close by.
That will give you the choice to keep that guy out of the fight for good, or try your luck at finishing off the medic.
But a medic should be able to revive chain 4 teammates down in a room if the enemy fails to finish them off. That’s on them.
several possibilities exist to nerf the medic trains:
[quote=“Szakalot;18688”]several possibilities exist to nerf the medic trains:
These two I’d prefer, either or both sound like a good start
Also, there should be no shield upon revive
You shouldn’t be benefited from a revive with a ‘instant-block all damage’ shield. Getting revived is benefit enough.
Do those changes Szakalot said, plus remove the shield and see how that plays out to fix the issue and go from there.
[quote=“triteTongs;18711”]
Do those changes Szakalot said, plus remove the shield and see how that plays out to fix the issue and go from there.[/quote]
thx but i didnt mean ‘put all those changes in’, that would make reviving useless. Removing revive shield would make reviving useless as well, NOBODY WOULD WANT TO REVIVE OR GET REVIVED! Id welcome some slowdown to the revive itself though, like walking speed during the revive shield
[quote=“triteTongs;18711”]Also, there should be no shield upon revive
You shouldn’t be benefited from a revive with a ‘instant-block all damage’ shield. Getting revived is benefit enough.
Do those changes Szakalot said, plus remove the shield and see how that plays out to fix the issue and go from there.[/quote]
For me it’s not the revive itself so much as it is trying to prevent it.
The amount of hp people have when they are downed is basically just as much as they have when they are alive. So if you can’t get their head, it takes about 1/2 to a whole second to put them down for good. Now consider this, you have to do that to each person you kill, and the Medic can basically revive them in a 1/6 of second. Now you have two or more people fighting you, and in it’s situation that you really can’t control or do much about.
I have no problem with revive as a mechanic, but prevention or denying it is incredibly frustrating, especially now. Why is it the Fragger’s explosives can gib, but a direct sticky does not? Or a direct nade to the face?
And also, counter a Medic train with your own? I’m sorry but this isn’t W:ET, that logic that it worked in that game is not the same here since even tho they are similar, they are still very different games.
The Revive shield gives people incentive to revive, I’ll give you that. But what incentive do I have to finish opponents when 3/4 of the time I’m going to fucked over because the effort it takes to down someone is much greater than it is to Revive them.
Would love to see a dedicated gibber merc. Something like a crossbow special ability or sth that gibs the player outright xd
I was under the impression that was what Assault Mercs like Nader and Fragger were for, or mechanics like headshots or gibs.
I don’t think splash damage from nades should gib, that’s not what I mean, but landing a nade at someone’s feet, or a direct hit to the face with the launcher, or a direct sticky bomb to someone’s body, stuff that actually takes effort and time to learn, I think that’s fair to allow that as a reward.
That’s just my opinion, coming from a Unreal Tournament and TF2 background
+1 for lower Gib HP
+1 for FIxed, or normalized Gib HP (i.e. Fragger - 60HP to gib, Proxy - 50 HP to gib).
and also
make fullcharged revive not a 100% but a 75% HP
and combine that with a low dmg, not-instagib AOE merc (chain-lightning??)
First downs the enemies, second gibs them!
[quote=“Glottis-3D;18797”]+1 for lower Gib HP
+1 for FIxed, or normalized Gib HP (i.e. Fragger - 60HP to gib, Proxy - 50 HP to gib).
and also
make fullcharged revive not a 100% but a 75% HP[/quote]
Why?
To get a fullcharge you have to wind it up basically, so it’s only useful for Reviving one person at a time. You can’t chain with it, very situational.
i find it very easy to do.
it gives too much of an advantage (revive shield included) over a enemy, who just downed a player and wasnt lucky enough to gib him.
even 75% is not fair imho, but 100% is very far from fair.
keep in mind, that the whole game is very long TTK you rarely can kill and gib a fragger with one SMG clip on mid (let alone long) range.
so if you face a fragger in midrange and manage to kill him, and didnt have enough bullets to gib, and have to reload. next thing you see is He is fullHP revived and he with his fellow medic rip you apart in no time.
Should one person expect to take on a Fragger and Medic and have an easy time of it?
tbh standard health for downed mercs sounds like a good idea to me.
[quote=“McCrorie;18936”]Should one person expect to take on a Fragger and Medic and have an easy time of it?
tbh standard health for downed mercs sounds like a good idea to me.[/quote]
One person who kills a fragger should also be able to gib him in the same clip with any gun they kill him with. With a medic there, he should die to the medic in a trade. Providing decent aim of course.
However, you can outplay the fragger in every sense of the word only to get killed. Simply because you do not have the ammo to reliably kill + gib the fragger in one clip. Due to damage fall off, corpse spinning etc. Of course that is not counting the medic that is not in your fov and thus not a 1v2. Yet they still manage to get the res off, due to the time it takes fire off the rest of your clip + reload.
Normalizing downed players hp would go a long way towards preventing this. I can almost assure you it will happen. If not soon, it will be shortly after Rhino and his 200 hp are back in the game. (P.S. If the timeline video build is any indication he will be one of the next 3 updates- Rhino, Phoenix and red eye were all selectable in the video. Yes, even before stoker 
)
You don’t have the ammo if you used a lot of body shots and don’t get a clear shot at his head when he’s prone. Still, this is all assuming a 1 on 1 duel, at some range, without team involvement. It’s possible and it’s difficult. I’ve done it.