Should headshots deal more damage to downed enemies?

[riptide]

You don’t have the ammo if you used a lot of body shots and don’t get a clear shot at his head when he’s prone. Still, this is all assuming a 1 on 1 duel, at some range, without team involvement. It’s possible and it’s difficult. I’ve done it.

That’s why I said

“Simply because you do not have the ammo to reliably kill + gib the fragger in one clip.”

[Kroad1]

it’s not an ammo problem, players can literally be revived the moment they die so with a good medic behind the enemy, it’s basically impossible to gib without killing the medic first

[Szakalot]

What Kroad said.

Defibbing in DB is faster, longer range, and gives more HP than in ET. It also doesnt make you do a super slow syringe animation, after which it takes forever to pull out your weapon again. And the revived person isnt immobile while invulnerable, unlike ET

edit: typically in the cup we saw a Fragger push with a medic reviving them as soon as they are down. Rinse repeat, between the two teams, until the first medic dies (usually from a crossfire/nade/sniper)

There is little sense in trying to pick off singular enemies, as they will be revived before they hit the ground.

[riptide]

it’s not an ammo problem, players can literally be revived the moment they die so with a good medic behind the enemy, it’s basically impossible to gib without killing the medic first

I agree that defibbing is too fast with too little risk. However, that does not mean gibbing is not a problem due to ammo. Because it very much is. It’s simple math and you’ll see that when you will not have the ammo to kill + gib a rhino in a single smg clip at 2 ev lengths + a spinning corpse.

The scenario I posted that you responded to but didn’t quote happens ALL the time in pubs. Unsuspecting medics react to the X on the map and still get the res off because it can take 2 seconds to gib a player in the open, due to having to reload . As in they can be 2 ev lengths around a corner completely unaware of the situation and still manage to res the player.

But yeah, you’re going to run 3 ev lengths through a fragger, rhino or thunder to kill the medic in another room. While said medic may or may not be busy doing something other than waiting to defib that specific player.

What you would really do is try to kill the player and either ;

a. run up and try to knife him, putting you in bad position, because of how much ammo it takes to gib. Of course you still have to decide whether to reload and increase your chances of dying to that medic. Or maybe you have just enough bullets and hp to kill him with headshots only.

b. attempt to gib him from range before the medic res’s. Which may or may not be possible, because ammo and corpse spinning. Then you still have deal with the medic that was late to the party.

c. shoot the medic trying to res the player. Of course you have to decide if you have enough ammo left in the clip or if you have to reload. In this case, the chance of dying for nothing is the highest.

d. run away and pick another fight.

[triteTongs]

b. Attempt to gib him from range before the medic res’s. Which may or may not be possible, because ammo and corpse spinning. Then you still have deal with the medic that was late to the party.

If you are shooting from range (medium to long range), it seems to take double the amount of ammo to finish a player off. I’m not sure if there is damage falloff or not. But I’m pretty sure four headshots can’t even kill a downed player at a distance (and with the aug, it’s more like 8 headshots).

[riptide]

[quote=“triteTongs;19086”][quote=“riptide;19072”]
b. Attempt to gib him from range before the medic res’s. Which may or may not be possible, because ammo and corpse spinning. Then you still have deal with the medic that was late to the party.
[/quote]

If you are shooting from range (medium to long range), it seems to take double the amount of ammo to finish a player off. I’m not sure if there is damage falloff or not. But I’m pretty sure four headshots can’t even kill a downed player at a distance (and with the aug, it’s more like 8 headshots).

[/quote]

There is damage fall off and it’s most noticeable on smgs.

[APRenpsy]

Why not make revives not instantaneous, instead have medic revive teammates twice as fast as any other class.

Would be similar to how engineers repair/defuse/plant faster then any other class. They don’t plant instantly after all.

Kill the instant revives, make the medic choose, do I revive or do I fight or do I retreat.

[Szakalot]

[quote=“APRenpsy;19108”]Why not make revives not instantaneous, instead have medic revive teammates twice as fast as any other class.

Would be similar to how engineers repair/defuse/plant faster then any other class. They don’t plant instantly after all.

Kill the instant revives, make the medic choose, do I revive or do I fight or do I retreat.[/quote]

hm dont really like it, the UI is already clunky with defuses etc. it would be hard to make epic revives; and most likely medics would never bother reviving under fire.

[APRenpsy]

[quote=“Szakalot;19114”][quote=“APRenpsy;19108”]Why not make revives not instantaneous, instead have medic revive teammates twice as fast as any other class.

Would be similar to how engineers repair/defuse/plant faster then any other class. They don’t plant instantly after all.

Kill the instant revives, make the medic choose, do I revive or do I fight or do I retreat.[/quote]

hm dont really like it, the UI is already clunky with defuses etc. it would be hard to make epic revives; and most likely medics would never bother reviving under fire.
[/quote]

Forgot to mention that with this method they would have to make it so you revive at full hp to balance out the longer revive time. Get rid of the revive shield as well. Make the 50% revive augment act as overcharge.

Would that be better?

[avidCow]

No.

[Chirs]

tl;dr Downed players have too much health. Reduce it instead of targeting the revive shield to resolve the problem and make revive chains harder to pull off.

Seems to me that the issue is the amount of damage it takes to finish off a downed player. When I play medic it certainly feels like a lot of bullets, especially at medium range and when you contrast that with the one stab it takes with the knife.

If the downed health was lowered then I think you’d get a more pronounced struggle - revive trains could still be strung together but also crushed, but the outcome would be down to greater skill. In eSport terms that’s likely to add a bit more tension and viewing gold. Last ditch medic revives creating a comeback or a lone player thwarting a push with a few choice shots to a downed player and nailing the medic in the back of the head (in slow-mo) as they run away - that kind of thing.

If you drop the revive shield to deal with the inability to finish off downed players quickly, you just won’t get medics diving into a firefight or players bothering to wait for a revive. That might solve your issues with the shield but it will make the game less interesting and the medic class a lot duller to play.

[triteTongs]

You don’t have to completely lower all the health of players to 1HP, or completely remove the shield.
The shield can be 50% instead of 100%. Downed HP could slightly be reduced.
There’s ways to balance but those are the simplest solutions.

Because seriously, I knifed a guy who was revived and it counted the kill for the knife, but they were all still alive since the shield was up. I don’t know who I knifed, there was no body. The proxy and the two medics were both alive.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“triteTongs;19258”]You don’t have to completely lower all the health of players to 1HP, or completely remove the shield.
The shield can be 50% instead of 100%. Downed HP could slightly be reduced.
There’s ways to balance but those are the simplest solutions. [/quote]

I def like the idea of damage reduction rather than invulnerability. No lower than 50% I say