Should empty spots be filled in matchmaking?

(doxjq) #1

We’ve been informed that teams in the new matchmaking system will be locked. Players can leave as often as they want without penalty, but new players can not join a game that is already running to help fill in for a rage quitter. The team who is a person (or multiple people) down is forced to play with less players, or callvote a surrender. If some one quits, no one new can join the server until the match ends.

I’m just curious as to how other people feel about this, because I personally think rage quitting is too common in Dirty Bomb and it’s going to disturb gameplay like it never has before, especially since there is no penalty. Personally I think no penalty is fine, it is pub play after all, but I do think empty spots should be filled, even if it’s optional. There will be nothing worse than someone quitting a Stopwatch game after 2 minutes and you’re forced to play a smaller team for a long period of time.

I think there should be an option in the game menu that lets you choose whether or not you want to join games that are already running.

(RazielWarmonic) #2

Players who rage quit during Casual Matchmaking will receive a penalty. It’s akin to the Ranked Matchmaking penalty. :smile:

(doxjq) #3

Am I the only person here who thought they remembered reading that there would be no penalties in place for public games? I swear I remember shoe or someone saying this, because we have had this discussion on the forums before. Something about too many factors to consider about people not being leaving public games as they please. My point isn’t really about the penalty any way, it’s more about the options available.

Having penalties could be even worse. If you’re on the team who is a person down and your team refuses to surrender, you’re forced to play outnumbered.

(RazielWarmonic) #4

[quote=“Dox;190672”]Am I the only person here who thought they remembered reading that there would be no penalties in place for public games? I swear I remember shoe or someone saying this, because we have had this discussion on the forums before. Something about too many factors to consider about people not being leaving public games as they please. My point isn’t really about the penalty any way, it’s more about the options available.

[/quote]

I just touched base with @stayfreshshoe and he reassured me there was a penalty. A good example how things can change in development, I understand it’s not the MAIN point to your argument, however it still is a point. :3

(Equanimity) #5

There definitely shouldn’t be a penalty for PUB games, either…

(doxjq) #6

[quote=“RazielWarmonic;190674”][quote=“Dox;190672”]Am I the only person here who thought they remembered reading that there would be no penalties in place for public games? I swear I remember shoe or someone saying this, because we have had this discussion on the forums before. Something about too many factors to consider about people not being leaving public games as they please. My point isn’t really about the penalty any way, it’s more about the options available.

[/quote]

I just touched base with @stayfreshshoe and he reassured me there was a penalty. A good example how things can change in development, I understand it’s not the MAIN point to your argument, however it still is a point. :3[/quote]

Tbh this brings up a whole new conversation. I’m pretty sure most of the community agreed penalties were a horrible idea for public matches, but when we mostly agreed on this we never considered the possibility of locked matches with no way to compensate for rage quitters.

Hopefully people are just too scared to rage quit now then, so maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel after all :smiley:

(yesser) #7

i dont think someone joining a 5vs6 necessary isnt that why we have different spawn time dpending of number of players ?

(terminal) #8

This would just most likely result in players being put in games that are already losing or seconds before losing.
Let’s be honest, who leaves a match that they’re winning knowing they’ll get a penalty?

(doxjq) #9

[quote=“terminal;190682”]This would just most likely result in players being put in games that are already losing or seconds before losing.
Let’s be honest, who leaves a match that they’re winning knowing they’ll get a penalty?[/quote]

That’s why I said it should be an optional extra. Those who don’t want to risk it, can leave the option unselected.

(ClemClem7) #10

Personally, I prefer playing and trying to win, rather than waiting. And if this can help a team with 1 man down, I’ll be happy to help. What is a lost in this game, it happens everytime.

(Equanimity) #11

[quote=“terminal;190682”]This would just most likely result in players being put in games that are already losing or seconds before losing.
Let’s be honest, who leaves a match that they’re winning knowing they’ll get a penalty?[/quote]

Technical difficulties? Real life obligations? There’s a million factors. People shouldn’t be punished for playing CASUALLY and not being able to see a match through until the very end due to unforeseen consequences. Yeah I’m sure that’ll be GREATTTTT for player retention.

If there is even the slightest of incentives for joining a game in progress the majority of people would do it without a problem. Hell people do it all the time now just to get in to a near-full / full server with a decent ping. It doesn’t matter if the match is about to end if another one is going to start up in just a minute. People would especially be willing if they could trust the matchmaking system to provide them with a spot in a match with similarly skilled players.

[quote=“yesser;190679”]i dont think someone joining a 5vs6 necessary isnt that why we have different spawn time dpending of number of players ?
[/quote]

Still not an equivalent exchange for being up a player, and that is only applicable to Objective mode.

[quote=“Black;190687”]
However I think allowing players to join in progress games already is just going to start more crap and whining because usually when rage quitters leave it because the game wasn’t going their way. So usually when another person joins to fill the same point they are put in a position where the odds are against them, hence not a fun game.

Either way we go I believe penalties should still exist. If not penalties atleast some mechanic that rewards players for completing their matches. That behavior should not be tolerated. Maybe you get an increase in credits percentage wise for every game you complete in consecutive row.[/quote]

Typically the person who rage quits, IF they left the game for that reason, was a large contributor to the shortcomings of that team. Someone new coming in, if playing intelligently, is all that may have been needed to turn the tides. Even if the person who joins the game in progress is fighting an uphill battle, IF there is even the slightest of incentives for them doing so, they can still have an ‘enjoyable experience’.

I agree that there should be rewards/incentives for players who join games in progress and complete consecutive games without leaving themselves. It just makes sense. But actively punishing the entirety of the casual player base for situations that largely can be out of their control is NOT the correct approach.

(Black) #12

I’m kind of indifferent to which way the matchmaking goes because either way it will solve this balance dilemma.

However I think allowing players to join in progress games already is just going to start more crap and whining because usually when rage quitters leave it because the game wasn’t going their way. So usually when another person joins to fill the same point they are put in a position where the odds are against them, hence not a fun game.

Either way we go I believe penalties should still exist. If not penalties atleast some mechanic that rewards players for completing their matches. That behavior should not be tolerated. Maybe you get an increase in credits percentage wise for every game you complete in consecutive row.

(RazielWarmonic) #13

While I agree, these things DO happen - they shouldn’t happen often.
If you quit one time, you won’t be penalized as harsh - we get it, we’re human, shit just happens sometimes that is out of your control. It sucks that you get penalized, yes, but by the time you get back with dealing with whatever you should probably be fine. (If you constantly have to leave for IRL stuff, maybe server browser or taking care of your stuff is a better option for you ;P)

The biggest example I can think of a game doing this is League, one person leaving just sucks, especially with the time commitment with each match that game has. But you go onto your next game and start fresh. The good news is, for Dirty Bomb, a match doesn’t usually last more than 10-15 mins.

Just some food for thought. :blush:

(KUST__LunarTM) #14

My brother plays a lot of Dota 2, and pretty much every game I’ve watched him play where a person disconnected, that team lost almost 90% of the time. True, Dota 2 and Dirty Bomb are not the same style of game, but when you lose a teammate with no chance of getting any back, you might as well just stop trying.

(Equanimity) #15

[quote=“RazielWarmonic;190689”][quote=“Equanimity;190686”]
Technical difficulties? Real life obligations? There’s a million factors. People shouldn’t be punished for playing CASUALLY and not being able to see a match through until the very end due to unforeseen consequences. Yeah I’m sure that’ll be GREATTTTT for player retention.
[/quote]

While I agree, these things DO happen - they shouldn’t happen often.
If you quit one time, you won’t be penalized as harsh - we get it, we’re human, @$!# just happens sometimes that is out of your control. It sucks that you get penalized, yes, but by the time you get back with dealing with whatever you should probably be fine. (If you constantly have to leave for IRL stuff, maybe server browser or taking care of your stuff is a better option for you ;P)

The biggest example I can think of a game doing this is League, one person leaving just sucks, especially with the time commitment with each match that game has. But you go onto your next game and start fresh. The good news is, for Dirty Bomb, a match doesn’t usually last more than 10-15 mins.

Just some food for thought. :blush: [/quote]

The comparison is entirely null.

In League of Legends you make active progress as an individual character for time spent in the game. You level up throughout the game. This makes it impossible for someone to replace the player, and hence they’ve made it so early leavers cause the game to be reset back to queue. They have to punish leavers because it does cause an irreversible problem per individual game. League games can run almost as long as an hour.

All players start at a baseline strength with baseline characteristics balanced against each other on each 20~ second spawn wave in Dirty Bomb based on the mercenary they’ve selected. This makes it possible for players to be replaced if they do leave the game. This being the case, a player leaving may actually be BENEFICIAL to the team in the long run, if replaced by a more competent player. An average dirty bomb match as you mentioned is probably 10 - 20 minutes.

Fair point about the server browser I suppose. That being said why would I bother ever using the matchmaking queue? Why would anyone? I get the feeling, especially once private servers are purchasable, a large portion of the community will gravitate towards the server browser. Especially if they have to put up with 5v6s and no one to join for leavers. Especially if the MMR system is insufficient in providing actually even matches (yet to be seen). Especially if queues are going to take forever because joining games in progress is impossible. Especially if queues take forever because everyone is using the server browser. Especially if they’re going to be punished any time something comes up and they need to step away.

Let us not forget we’re talking about CASUAL MATCHMAKING in a FPS GAME.

(BananaSlug) #16

[quote=“Dox;190672”]Am I the only person here who thought they remembered reading that there would be no penalties in place for public games? I swear I remember shoe or someone saying this, because we have had this discussion on the forums before. Something about too many factors to consider about people not being leaving public games as they please. My point isn’t really about the penalty any way, it’s more about the options available.

Having penalties could be even worse. If you’re on the team who is a person down and your team refuses to surrender, you’re forced to play outnumbered.

[/quote]

@RazielWarmonic i know a lot of people are asking for telling us what are you thinking in dev team and you probably know that this is an example of saying ideas in “alpha”,
i would rather see information like “we are doing casual matchmaking, stay tuned!” than this
sorry for going off topic, i just think this is something that devs need to remember (and probably do remember)

to the idea
i think it is not that big deal, it should only be reduced soo it wont fill ending soon match, it would probably also reduce the time it takes to find a match

(RazielWarmonic) #17

[quote=“BananaSlug;190697”]
@RazielWarmonic i know a lot of people are asking for telling us what are you thinking in dev team and you probably know that this is an example of saying ideas in “alpha”,
i would rather see information like “we are doing casual matchmaking, stay tuned!” than this
sorry for going off topic, i just think this is something that devs need to remember (and probably do re[/quote]

Not to derail the thread either… But I honestly have no idea what you are asking/stating. I’m rather confused at the moment. :sweat: If you could clarify I would appreciate it!

(Jostabeere) #18

Players who rage quit during Casual Matchmaking will receive a penalty. It’s akin to the Ranked Matchmaking penalty. :smile: [/quote]

I don’t care about the penalty of a single one when he leaves, but for the penalty for the whole team, since they have to play with less people and it won’t be balanced or filled up.
When 1-2 people on my team leave, the rest is doomed to lose Since the teams are sooo balanced for the full room and not for 4v5 for example, as the devteam tells us.

I just hope SD/Nexon don’t have smartasses who completely turn off the server browser and casual non-matchmaking games where I can leave everytime. Or the games actually get filled when someone leaves.

(yesser) #19

the time change is really useful and i’am not sure about if it aplly in obj only but its REALLY useful during the casual MM i played a match in 4vs6 (attacking) and won it in bridge where people say its defender sided
and in another side its like CS GO why do people play ranked ? just to increase in the rank ? i guess its more cause a 5vs5 match is what cs go was intended to and thats probably better then some rondom zombie mode or death match where you non stop only hear shooting

(RazielWarmonic) #20

[quote=“Equanimity;190696”]
Fair point about the server browser I suppose. That being said why would I bother ever using the matchmaking queue? Why would anyone? I get the feeling, especially once private servers are purchasable, a large portion of the community will gravitate towards the server browser. Especially if they have to put up with 5v6s and no one to join for leavers. Especially if the MMR system is insufficient in providing actually even matches (yet to be seen). Especially if queues are going to take forever because joining games in progress is impossible. Especially if queues take forever because everyone is using the server browser. Especially if they’re going to be punished any time something comes up and they need to step away.

Let us not forget we’re talking about CASUAL MATCHMAKING in a FPS GAME.[/quote]

People transitioning from the Casual Matchmaking queue to server browser is perfectly acceptable.

We aren’t making Casual Matchmaking for the old players who know their way around Dirty Bomb, we are making it for those new players who don’t know what is going on and are intimidated by the server browser - To be honest, when I first started, I sure was!

Players who rage quit during Casual Matchmaking will receive a penalty. It’s akin to the Ranked Matchmaking penalty. :smile: [/quote]

I don’t care about the penalty of a single one when he leaves, but for the penalty for the whole team, since they have to play with less people and it won’t be balanced or filled up.
When 1-2 people on my team leave, the rest is doomed to lose Since the teams are sooo balanced for the full room and not for 4v5 for example, as the devteam tells us. [/quote]

They don’t get a “loss” on their record, and after an amount of time, like rank, can leave the game if they so desire.

Server browser is not going away. We need it for several reasons, one of those being the hardcore players who prefer it, and for when we eventually get private servers going.