Shotguns & Bolt-Action Snipers Are Still Ridiculously Strong

(Demolama) #41

@Melinder said:
That’s the entire point of this thread… Bodyshots shouldn’t be the norm, headshots should be.

It’s like I’m talking to a brick wall.

That has always been my point since day one. Tracking the body is much easier than tracking the head, yet many of the point and click weapons give too much reward for hitting the body.

I know it wasn’t mentioned in this thread but a good player that can control what little spread and recoil burst rifles have, which can be spammed as fast as you can click, can and often does beat a player using an m4 ( who lands several headshots ) just by aiming at the body.

(Melinder) #42

You shouldn’t reward players for the use of shotguns at any range other than extremely short/point blank. Giving them damage over range creates the exact same issue we have with body shot snipers, except at a shorter range - being able to position yourself safely, and deal 50%+ health to enemies with minimal punish opportunity, and minimal effort required.

Today playing last stage Underground on Defence, holding yellow alone, all I had to do was sit at the far corner (20-25 ft away), shoot a shot as they came through the door and immediately move behind cover. I’ve already left them on approx -60 hp. If I repeek, peekers advantage means I shoot first and get the kill. There’s no way to punish me in that position other than rush me with 4+ people, and even then I guarantee at least 1 frag.

(GatoCommodore) #43

@Melinder said:
You shouldn’t reward players for the use of shotguns at any range other than extremely short/point blank. Giving them damage over range creates the exact same issue we have with body shot snipers, except at a shorter range - being able to position yourself safely, and deal 50%+ health to enemies with minimal punish opportunity, and minimal effort required.

Today playing last stage Underground on Defence, holding yellow alone, all I had to do was sit at the far corner (20-25 ft away), shoot a shot as they came through the door and immediately move behind cover. I’ve already left them on approx -60 hp. There’s no way to punish me in that position other than rush me with 4+ people, and even then I guarantee at least 1 frag.

-gets close up without getting wrecked by enemy sniper and burst rifle user
-manage to get close and deal 50 dmg
-proceed to die because you can only kill 2 people with 5 shell and 80-90hp

or

-walljumps to enemy face
-proceed to shot pointblank
-misses because nearly no spread on extremely short range
-chambers a shell
-dies getting tracked by automatic rifle and smgs

more like minimal effort with maximum risk compared to any gun in the game…

(Eox) #44

If anything, playing shotguns is still a gigantic liability for any good player due to the total inability to fight at longer range. Remburg and to an extent Hollunds still allow for some cheap kills, but that’s about it. I tried to play shotgun Fletcher yesterday with Ahnuhld : it went as terrible as usual.

(Melinder) #45

@GatoCommodore said:
-gets close up without getting wrecked by enemy sniper and burst rifle user
-manage to get close and deal 50 dmg
-proceed to die because you can only kill 2 people with 5 shell and 80-90hp

Ah, so they’re balanced because you can’t 1v3 with them… makes sense.

(Melinder) #46

@Eox
I understand that they put you at a disadvantage against longer ranged weaponry, but if you choose to use them in situations they’re suitable for, these “liabilities” arent enough to warrant the power they provide in the certain environments, and thinking of the maps right now, a lot of the fighting takes place at mid range or closer.

(Nail) #47

20 feet is EXTREMELY close, if you think that’s “medium distance” you’re broken

(Melinder) #48

When you think shotgun you think barrel to the chest, not 2 seconds worth of running distance. In terms of a shotguns max range, it’s viable to the medium range mark, beyond that point you’re long ranging the shotgun and only dealing 5-20 damage.

If a shotguns damage diminishes at 10m, then I would consider 5m to be medium range for a shotgun. For a rifle that’s close range, but we aren’t talking about rifles, we are talking about pump action snipers.

@Eox I’ll assume u didn’t see my previous close request, so here’s me asking again please… this isn’t going anywhere, it’s just a battle of the lovers and the haters of shotguns.

(GatoCommodore) #49

@Melinder said:

@GatoCommodore said:
-gets close up without getting wrecked by enemy sniper and burst rifle user
-manage to get close and deal 50 dmg
-proceed to die because you can only kill 2 people with 5 shell and 80-90hp

Ah, so they’re balanced because you can’t 1v3 with them… makes sense.

equip proxy with timik/stark i can kill 2-3 without getting touched easy at any range.
see where im getting at? Sure you can kill with 2 shot per merc if youre lucky, but its definetly riskier than having something like hochfir or timik for instance.

also
20 feet is 6m

do you remember shotgun effective range?
das rite
more than 6m now…

(Guziol) #50

I hate the idea that shotgun in a videogame is supposed to blast everything into oblivion when it’s right in front but just one step after it’s useless. Those things are never fun, on both recreiving end and in users hands. If anything shotguns need even more range and maybe less damage. I’d even trade some damage for more fire rate so it’s not so upfront but it might look silly.

(Eox) #51

@Melinder said:
@Eox I’ll assume u didn’t see my previous close request, so here’s me asking again please… this isn’t going anywhere, it’s just a battle of the lovers and the haters of shotguns.

If you want a lock please say it explicitely next time.

Closing.