Shotguns & Bolt-Action Snipers Are Still Ridiculously Strong

[Melinder]

Having played admittedly way more than I should have since the Javelin update, I’ve come to one very obvious conclusion; Shotguns and Snipers feel unchanged.

As it was before, Vassili’s who are unable to hit a single headshot the entire game are still having an insane impact in fights with their low-skill body shot prowess.

As for shotguns, being one shotted by an ADHD jump-spamming Proxy was indeed a problem, and therefore the damage reduction was a step in the right direction (admittedly not a big enough step), the other problem, perhaps more important than the damage itself, was the range at which the shotguns could deal significant damage, which is why i’m puzzled to see their range increased rather than decreased.

[Nail]

big guns, big damage
afaik spread was untouched

[STARRYSOCK]

One of the thoughts I had was, shotguns could be made into a sort of nerf weapon for loadouts with exceptionally good stats. Like, sparks with SMGs would be too good, so she has machine pistols. And rather than try to make machine pistols a viable primary, the devs have kept them nerfed. The same could theoretically be applied to shotguns.
So basically, shotguns could be underpowered, as long as the rest of the loadout was very good compared to other loadouts on that merc.
Sniper rifles aren’t really as simple though. Imo they’re honestly something that had no real place in dirty bomb. They just slow down matches, make things feel restricted in a game that’s supposed to be fast paced.

I kinda want to see a shotgun with fan-shaped spread too though. Good for hitting multiple targets.

[ImSploosh]

Some people hate shotguns and snipers, but to be honest, I don’t have a problem with them for the most part. You rarely ever see an A+ Vassili hitting consistent headshots. The bodyshots don’t bother me much, just requires a change in tactics to either take out or avoid the Vassili. Generally a team Redeye or counter-sniper works fairly well. Even a bad counter-sniper helps to keep the Vassili off our team’s back.

As for shotguns, my only gripe with them is the inconsistency. For some reason, they do very little damage when I use them, despite hitting pointblank, barrel-stuffing shots and I’m not sure why. It’s baffled me for about 2 years now. When I started DB, I was a huge Execution player (RIP), and rather than being that jumping Proxy, I was a flanking Aura who utilized my health station to annihilate the enemy team with a big ol’ shotty. However, sometime later I noticed that the damage just sorta vanished. I understand the star shaped pattern of the shotgun and the range. However, they just stopped working. I’ve been 1-shotted at 100 HP and consistently 1-shotted at 90 HP, no headshots. Yet, I’ll shoot a Bushwacker and it will take off only 1/5 of his health. Just very weird.

My guess is that it has something to do with the FOV/ Sounds odd, but I remember I was getting big into sniping back in Execution and started moving away from the shotgun. I made a huge change, which some people will debate as being good or bad, but it helped me nonetheless- I lowered my FOV from max to minimum (50 or 60). I haven’t tested this or anything, but I suppose I should. Seems like it could have the potential to make a difference, like give the appearance of direct hits, but maybe I’m just chipping the enemy?

Long rambling post, but in short, I feel like any more nerfing and it’s gonna be overdone. Leave them as is, add a little more cover in some maps with long stretches to protect from snipers, and rework shotguns slightly. Personally, I’m worried about this game turning into CoD where submachine guns are king. Effective variety is much better.

[Melinder]

@STARRYSOCK said:
Sniper rifles aren’t really as simple though. Imo they’re honestly something that had no real place in dirty bomb. They just slow down matches, make things feel restricted in a game that’s supposed to be fast paced.

I’d say the same regarding Shotguns, and to a lesser extent Snipers.

The problem I have with both of them is how they can deal significant amounts of damage with minimal effort, whilst giving opponents little chance to counter.

Shotguns are an easier topic to cover. My main problems with them are:

• The range at which they can deal critical damage.
• The amount of damage dealt per shot in comparison to their rate of fire.

Damage Dealt At Range
With the way they are now, I find myself being frequently two pieced from a medium range. Having the capability to deal significant amounts of damage from a range means that players using shotguns are not forced to gap-close, and can choose to shoulder-peek cover and knock 50-60 damage per shot from a safe distance.

Damage Per Shot & Fire Rate
My other issue is that, if they do choose to close the gap (generally through smashing spacebar, a rant for another time), they are able to one shot 80% of the Mercs, and if the first shot fails to instantly kill the player, they can fire another shot in around 0.5 seconds, all the while they’re mashing spacebar, bouncing around like someone pegged a bouncy-ball in a small room, making them annoying to track.

[jjpdn]

The problem with Snipers is that they are too good in good hands. I’ve had games where I almost couldn’t poke my head out without getting body shot/instakilled. Plus, it was annoying when a sniper can just hit you with a body shot then kill you with a few shots from his pistol. The damage nerf on the body shot made all that a lot more tolerable.

…shotguns, well, they are shotguns. Don’t have a solid opinion on them.

[Guziol]

Medium-long range is king in this game. There is a reason why nobody uses shotguns seriously in competetive setting.

[Melinder]

@Guziol said:
Medium-long range is king in this game. There is a reason why nobody uses shotguns seriously in competetive setting.

The only place I don’t see shotguns used are in PUG’s, and the only reason I don’t see them there is because we ban them. I often see them in the DBN Cups, and shed a tear every time a player is killed by one.

[Guziol]

You are right. It is always a tear inducing view when somebody let’s a shotgun character get into only range where the weapon works and get’s killed by it.

[Melinder]

@Guziol said:
only range where the weapon works

Sadly, that includes medium range. Let’s fix that.

I’m sorry, but I’m not okay with shotguns two hitting at this range, and I struggle to understand how anyone can be:

[Guziol]

A stationary fragger sure showed me. All i see is a smart use of a shotgun and somebody who does not know to deal with shotguns. And i hardly consider this medium range but that’s just me.

[B_Montiel]

@Melinder said:

@Guziol said:
only range where the weapon works

Sadly, that includes medium range. Let’s fix that.

I’m sorry, but I’m not okay with this, and I struggle to understand how anyone can be:

Even if I’d like shotguns to promote head aiming slightly more, there’s nothing to discuss about here. Fragger’s fault all the way and I barely understand why people don’t agree with shotguns doing that amount of damage on that kind of range if used accurately. Most of people, including very good players, whining about shotguns generally pay bad attention to not getting flanked or ambushed. That’s the exact purpose of shotguns in this game. They are annoying weapons to play against, yes, but the flip side of the coin is huge with them.

By any means, they should not be limited to point blank unless you’d only see them in newcomers hands. Yes there are adjustments to make, but they’re not so out of the general mix, pretty much like any other weapon which is not full auto in this game. Bursts, snipers, dreiss, sparks’s revivr and even fragger/thunder lmgs have good or bad points that make them awkward compared to the “standard” smgs and full auto ARs.

[Melinder]

That was a demonstration of range, not an outplay…

[Sorotia]

@Guziol said:
A stationary fragger sure showed me. All i see is a smart use of a shotgun and somebody who does not know to deal with shotguns. And i hardly consider this medium range but that’s just me.

70 damage from medium range…for a weapon that is supposed to be a close quarters weapon…doesn’t matter how stupid that Fragger played…still a lot of damage from what is supposed to be a short range weapon.

[Nail]

that “range” in the vid is about 20 ft, that’s no where near medium range

[Sorotia]

It definitely isn’t close…

[GatoCommodore]

@Melinder said:
That was a demonstration of range, not an outplay…

adjust your FOV into standard one
then you will see how close everything should be.

[GatoCommodore]

@Melinder said:
Having played admittedly way more than I should have since the Javelin update, I’ve come to one very obvious conclusion; Shotguns and Snipers feel unchanged.

As it was before, Vassili’s who are unable to hit a single headshot the entire game are still having an insane impact in fights with their low-skill body shot prowess.

As for shotguns, being one shotted by an ADHD jump-spamming Proxy was indeed a problem, and therefore the damage reduction was a step in the right direction (admittedly not a big enough step), the other problem, perhaps more important than the damage itself, was the range at which the shotguns could deal significant damage, which is why i’m puzzled to see their range increased rather than decreased.

shotgun damage overall is reduced while the range is increased a bit to level playing field with SMG.

the old shotgun was 144 dmg while after nerf is 125 dmg
that is a very big nerf.

also, you can counter bunny hopping proxy with backpedaling
i dont bunny hop again because its making me slow
instead proxy should learn how to dodge with her speed.

[Melinder]

@GatoCommodore
FOV is 75, not as high as you’re making out, and if that is the change in damage, then it has only affected Fragger being one shouted. So now Fragger is safe from 1 shot, but him and everyone else are in danger of being shot from a further range. The range is more the issue than the point blank damage - it is too high, but it’s a shotgun, it’s going to deal critical damage. The range was the main reason people complained, im just a bit confused about their choices with regards to extending range. We needed a nerf not a rework/tweak.

[GatoCommodore]

@Melinder said:
@GatoCommodore
FOV is 75, not as high as you’re making out, and if that is the change in damage, then it has only affected Fragger being one shouted. So now Fragger is safe from 1 shot, but him and everyone else are in danger of being shot from a further range. The range is more the issue than the point blank damage - it is too high, but it’s a shotgun, it’s going to deal critical damage. The range was the main reason people complained, im just a bit confused on their choices with regards to extending range. We needed a nerf not a rework/tweak.

this is spread if you dont chuck shotgun on people face
if you try to do it at even closer the spread got smaller- nearly as small as a normal sniper bullet hole.

the gun is not actually the be-all end-all weapon with wall of lead like everyone makes it to be. The gun does require practice and a little bit of skill to use.

(note that this is standard FoV thus everything is as close they are supposed to be.)