REVIVE INVINCIBILITY NEEDS TO GO

(deliberateEmpire) #1

I briefly touched the subject in an earlier post but I guess it was too lenghty and the issue didn’t get much attention so I’m coming back to it.

First of all, I’m not completely sure how the mechanic works and I’d appreciate some insight if someone tested things out or has access to the data. From what I understood from playing the game, you are invincible on revive for something like 2 seconds, and shooting ends it.

In my sense, it is a big issue. I understand the need for players not to get frustrated but it often feels really wrong:
When someone gets rezzed it creates a 1v2 situation which means every bullet counts : you’re dead if you don’t kill both enemies with a single mag so you really can’t afford shooting someone that’s invincible. Revive invicibility creates some very awkward: « Should I shoot this enemy player or what » moments. The fact that they are people who might or might not be invincible running around kind of breaks the flow of the game (which is Dirty Bomb’s main strength), in an FPS it should always be safe to shoot an enemy player. Getting punished (and killed) because you emptied your mag on someone who happens to have just been rezed around the corner creates the worst kind of frustration because it’s out of your control.
Getting killed right after respawning does feel frustrating but it’s a necessary evil, and I don’t think it’s really that bad: when you get rezzed in the middle of a firefight it’s pretty obvious that you might just die again. I know it can cause griefing in some games but we already have the ability to suicide, if you feel frustrated you can just press k, which means you keep control on wether you wish to take the “risk” of being revived or not.

(Humbug) #2

It needs to stay, but i would prefer the way it was in enemy territory.
It has to be more obvious wether the revived guy is invincible or not.

(Kroad) #3

First of all, lower the amount of damage needed to gib a player.

Then if reviving is still a problem, that’s when you can start touching other factors. Right now, finishing someone just takes too much time and so it’s very hard to prevent a medic from reviving if he’s right behind the enemy.

(Eox) #4

I think the time to gib an enemy is okay. Just don’t use your quickmelee (takes to much time to make the animation, because it’s like using the stab/right clic), just switch to your melee weapon and make a light cut (left clic) : it’ll always gib the target in one hit, even if it’s a light cut. Also, headshots also work on downed targets, and there’s a specially augment that allows you to perform quick gibs from afar : throwing knife. You also DO NOT need to crouch to finish I guy. I finished some downed targets without even crouching plenty of times : try it.

(Runeforce) #5

Revive Invincibility is here to stay. It is really simple, shoot the medic and gib your targets. Don’t waste your bullets on targets with shield icons over them. Use your knife (or defibs) for gibbing.

(RuleofBooKz) #6

REVIVE INVINCIBILITY IS TOTALLY FINE

see other intelligent comments as to what may be tweaked, time / shots to gib, the animation of downed players could be less like a serpent snaking all over the ground on some characters etc etc, but the invincibility if fine as is

(JPB) #7

This is understood and effective if you are using a shotgun, however it’s simply not a viable option for any kills you get from distance. Even mid-range kills with a proxy SMG are not viable to knife if the medic is nearby and alert; in that situation you are forced to get the finish with your SMG bullets, if it’s a downed fragger/skyhammer if they fell in a way that their head doesn’t face towards you then you have no chance to get a finish.

If the enemy falls without their head facing your direction it will take a lot of bullets to gib them with bodyshots; even the moa sniper doesn’t insta gib with a bodyshot which is pretty fucking ridiculous.

(Szakalot) #8

it seems that the incapacitated players have same base HP as their normal HPs. If you down skyhammer, you still have to deal 120damage to gib. Thats A LOT of damage.

(Eox) #9

This is understood and effective if you are using a shotgun, however it’s simply not a viable option for any kills you get from distance. Even mid-range kills with a proxy SMG are not viable to knife if the medic is nearby and alert; in that situation you are forced to get the finish with your SMG bullets, if it’s a downed fragger/skyhammer if they fell in a way that their head doesn’t face towards you then you have no chance to get a finish.

If the enemy falls without their head facing your direction it will take a lot of bullets to gib them with bodyshots; even the moa sniper doesn’t insta gib with a bodyshot which is pretty fucking ridiculous.[/quote]

Of couse it’s not made to be the easiest thing. You have to find a way to deny from the medic the access to the downed target. Also some characters or loadouts will be more useful to finish targets, this is part of the balance IMO.

(Zenity) #10

It’s actually interesting that a single knife slash always gibs the targets, since that is clearly by design. A knife slash doesn’t do that much damage, and this seems to be the only obvious exception where gibbing is not simply based on damage dealt. Even in ET you couldn’t gib with a single knife slash.

I think it’s good design. Can you gib somebody reliably from a distance when a medic is nearby? No. But that’s not the question, the question is why that is actually a bad thing.

I personally see it more as a positive. It balances out crossfire setups to some extend, and ensures that medics are always relevant. There is a reason why medics should be primary targets, and you can always overcome a medic train with equal or superior firepower.

Sometimes, killing somebody is nothing more than a tactic to draw out a medic into the open, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

(crooKk) #11

It’s fine!

(Szakalot) #12

in ETPRO you can slash a body from an angle imitating backstab for instagib. Honestly dont remember how it was in etmain, but im pretty sure DB’s knife-gib is based on W:ET design.

(crooKk) #13

[quote=“Zenity;15006”]Even in ET you couldn’t gib with a single knife slash.

[/quote]
Standing on head facing feet was a one hit gib with a knife.

(avidCow) #14

knife stabs and headshots make gibbing quite easy. You’re not supposed to get easy gibs from far away or during an intense firefight.

OP: I had not even realized that there is two seconds of invulnerability. I’m going to consider that a sign that it’s ok at the moment.

(Furiosus) #15

Revive invuln needs to go. It’s a terrible mechanic that detracts from good plays. It means medics can create invulnerable zombies who can then begin firing whenever they want within the 2 second window.

If getting ressed multiple times is a problem, then there should be a confirmation dialogue. Failing that, if this terrible mechanic that takes away from skillful plays is going to stay then they need to make invulnerable characters transparent, no longer block bullets and force them to be unable to shoot for 2 seconds. Oh, and seriously reduce the amount of damage needed to gib.

(Zenity) #16

in ETPRO you can slash a body from an angle imitating backstab for instagib. Honestly dont remember how it was in etmain, but im pretty sure DB’s knife-gib is based on W:ET design.
[/quote]

I think it was two hits sometimes, unless this was changed in ETPro. I find it hard to remember this because the knife slashes had a very fast repetition rate anyway, so there wasn’t much difference between one or two slashes. Somebody said two hits, and I found a video which said the same, though it’s not clear whether it refers to ETPro.

In any case this was based on the “backstab” mechanic, which doesn’t make a lot of sense for enemies lying on a ground… So ultimately this looked more like an oversight than a designed feature (or perhaps a bug that turned into a feature), unlike the instagibbing in Dirty Bomb.

(Szakalot) #17

it could have been two slashes, don’t remember either.

Strafe-jumping was also an oversight when Quake came out : )

(Runeforce) #18

…

(Zenity) #19

[quote=“Szakalot;15123”]it could have been two slashes, don’t remember either.

Strafe-jumping was also an oversight when Quake came out : )[/quote]

I’m not saying it was bad, just contrasting it to the insta knife gib in Dirty Bomb which is clearly by design. :slight_smile:

(sinKrin) #20

I’ve started to leave some mercs ungibbed to draw out that medic. Drop the medic when he runs out with the paddles, wait for the shield to wear off on the resuscitated merc and then drop him again. 3 kills for the price of one :slight_smile: