Revive/Help Up Counts As Death.

(PixelTwitch) #1

I have thought about this for quite a while (more so when Sparks was in the game). I have recently just had a game that threw this right into my firing line once again. Now I am not one to worry too much about Kill/Death ratio as I am pretty much an XP farmer and Win/Loss kinda guy. However, earlier today I went from a respectable 20/6 to 26/22 without actually respawning. during a thrilling battle on the last objective of white chapel. Obviously the medics were just tap reviving and I was trying to reload a LMG.

What makes this all the more confusing is that your STREAKS stay when revived but so does your death. This leaves a disconnect between the score (xp) and your K/D.

I feel if you remove the death + better communicate that your streaks persist then you could end up with better overall team play and more obvious reflection when looking at the score board (for this reason I also feel you should display the Assists). I also feel it would keep people hoping for a revive rather then simply canceling out of a help up or reviving instantly on the respawn timer.

(Mustang) #2

Whilst I’m all for encouraging teamplay if you want to trigger deaths on respawn then logically you should trigger kills on gib rather than incap, that aspect seems like it would introduce more problems than it solves.

(PixelTwitch) #3

not really…
In the Battlefield games you get a kill when you kill someone but they only get a death if they are not revived.

now… I am not a K/D whore but if I was, I would not accept any revived in Dirty Bomb.
I think it would help team moral also as getting tap revived and insta killed is one of the most frustrating aspects of the game.
However if you was still only going to get that 1 death, it seems like a MUCH smaller problem.

(montheponies) #4

A kill is a kill. A death is a death. Tap k to remove yourself from the overzealous medic if the revive is a waste of time, otherwise suck it up and enjoy the revive train… :slight_smile:

(titan) #5

agreed deaths should only tick when your gibbed, lots of ppl are k/d whores theyll just get mad after a 5 or 6 revive train leaves them looking like a nooby

(Runeforce) #6

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;509449]not really…
In the Battlefield games you get…[/QUOTE]
OH NO YOU DIDN’T!!! :stroggtapir:

I never give out plus ones, but: +1

(PixelTwitch) #7

lol… stuck in the past fellas… stuck in the past… :stuck_out_tongue:

(INF3RN0) #8

I don’t care about K/D and it has no actual value to the obj, so it makes sense to count the death after a gib just to appease the majority. No loss to me anyhow.

(PixelTwitch) #9

That is basically what I was getting at just put much better.
At the end of the day it makes no difference to the gameplay itself (mechanics wise)
But we should be more likely to see people waiting for a revive if a medic is close.
This helps out the medics, helps out the team and removes a frustrating element.
:smiley:

(montheponies) #10

as ever pixel you are the voice of the future…guess it must be because you can mix ticket systems from BF into a discussion about how annoyed you are about your KDR being turned to **** due to too many revives.

i’ll repeat. if you dont want to be revived (ie. surrounded, with no hope of helping the team obj) - tap k.

(Sun_Sheng) #11

Well, I’ve been playing a bit recently as a reviving medic and from that perspective there are a few annoyances.

It winds me up no end when I die because I risked my own kdr to revive someone who tapped out for no good reason. Another thing is the role being undervalued as a good reviving medic can make a massive difference to a push yet there are no real stats for it at the end.

And in regards to kills and revives, whilst it might brass off the guy who died 3 times and I picked him up, what about the poor chap who won his 1v1 3 times and his now lying on the floor calling for a medic because he couldn’t win the 4th … and to add insult to injury, he didn’t get a kill recorded because he couldn’t gib quick enough?!

(INF3RN0) #12

He’s talking about a death count, not a kill count.

(Sun_Sheng) #13

Aye, but as mustang said, that should really mean only gibs count as kills. You’re either dead or you aren’t. You got a kill or you didn’t.

(PixelTwitch) #14

Honestly I do not see why…
With that mentality streaks (badges) should not continue after a revive.
after all the descriptions say “kill 25 people in 1 life”
However this does throw up the question of why do we have a K/D ratio if everyone has such a big issue with it -.- lol

(Humate) #15

Thinking ahead, if SD do indeed go the inferno route and introduce a suite of counter abilities and tools - I think adding a death to respawn is not the best idea. I dont mind awarding kills to negate kill denying, thats fine - when its used as a tool to adapt to the battlefield, awarding a death is a bit silly.

As for getting stuck in a revive loop, I’d say its pretty rare in this game compared to previous SD titles.
From the start of the alpha I think ive only experienced it once. That said, its negated pretty easily as it was in the dinosaur years.

(PixelTwitch) #16

The problem I have right now is pretty simple…

I can give reasons that I believe it will improve public team play and reduce frustration.
Because…

[ul]
[li]
[/li][li]Players are MORE likely to wait for a revive even if it will be a couple of seconds after a spawn wave.
[/li][li]Players are LESS likely to get frustrated with the revive -> die -> revive -> die loop.
[/li][li]Players are LESS likely to cancel out of a “help up” near the end (I am guilty of this) and prevent helping player frustration and time wasted.
[/li][li]Kills and Deaths ratio is overall MORE accurate both in game and in stats tracking. (dying 3x with 30hp messes this up a ickle bit)
[/li][li]The displayed values will then correlate better with the badge system.
[/li][li]Brings the game closer to the mainstream way of doing things <- I think this is the only reason why people don’t REALLY like it…
[/li][/ul]

In my eyes all these things are a positive…
I would greatly appreciate it if you could list me some of the cons?

(Kl3ppy) #17

Imo, the Kill/death stuff should disappear from the Scoreboard ingame. Many ppl play just for their KDR and therefore DB is the wrong game for them. It is enough when the KDR is shown in the statistic section in the launcher.

But I do not agree what Pix stated above:

  • [li]Players are not likely to wait for a medic when a revive isn’t counted as death. They are more likely to wait when they know, a medic is around and will revive them. As long both things don’t happen, they will always tab out.
    [/li][li]If you get frustrated by the revive-> die loop it is your fault, press k to stop it. But it is not annoying for me when I get revived and killed instead because of the stats but because the medic is so stupid to keep me reviving and I don’t have a chance to survive it.
    [/li][li]I never experienced a tabbed out help up, if this happens, the helped up player is plain stupid.
    [/li][li]True, ingame should be the same as in the launcher
    [/li][li]Badge system should be the same, if death and revive don’t cancel streaks, change it
    [/li][li]Sorry, but this is imo the biggest crap I ever heard. What is Mainstream? BF and CoD? If so, you have forgotten that BF/CoD have a complete game mode than DB. Maybe care to explain what you meant with this point. And no, the main issues of DB are the poor maps and the unfinished classless objective gameplay stuff.
    [/li]
(Anti) #18

We’ve discussed this several times at the office and we’re happy with how it is now.

We want kill and death totals to stack up evenly on each side where possible, so the act that gives a kill needs to cause a death. Having kills on gib feels very bad though, the idea that the killer would send somebody to the ground as they would in any other FPS and not get the kill seems really unrewarding, so incapping somebody remains a kill and everything else is based off of that.

(Sun_Sheng) #19

+1

I think the way it is, is perfectly fine. I wouldn’t want or don’t think, people should make decisions based on their kdr. As I said before, if I’m going to risk my own life and kdr by jumping into a hail of bullets to revive someone then i think it’s wrong if them to get me killed by tapping out. On the other hand, I also wouldn’t want them holding on and missing a spawn wave because again they don’t want to tap out and have it count as a death. If i didn’t get the revive in and died, they’ll probably get gibbed straight after anyway and then we’re a man down until the next spawn. Tapping out should always be a tactical decision and not an ego based one

(Mustang) #20

Basically what Anti said.