Revive bug

(Coolhand) #1

OK, I think I’ve got my head around the revival disorientation thing. Here’s the bug report I’m planning to submit… comments please?

Description

After being revived, a player is invulnerable, and has a fixed point of view. However, during this time, any mouse movement made is apparently buffered, and the sum of these movements is applied at the point when the invulnerability is removed.

Why is this a problem?

It can result in severe disorientation, just at the point when the avatar is most vulnerable. I’m assuming that the invulnerability is applied after a revive explicitly for the purpose of giving the player the chance to gain his/her bearings. Thus this bug entirely negates the purpose of the invulnerability.

Reproducibility

100%.

Test1: die, await for a revive. Once the medic’s needle is applied, do not touch the mouse. The view remains unchanged after the invulnerability wears off.

Test2: die, await for a revive. Once the medic’s needle is applied, move the mouse forward slightly (an upward-looking movement). Once invulnerability has worn off, the view suddenly changes to point at the sky. Repeat for left/right/down if not convinced.

Suggested solutions

Either:

  1. Do not buffer mouse movement between needle application and removal of invulnerability. View remains fixed until invulnerability has worn off (and the fact that the player regains control tells the player that invulnerability has worn off).
    or:
  2. Allow mouse movement to affect the view during the “revival period”.

Either solution would cure the disorientation problem, however, given a personal preference I think I would opt for solution (2). As I understand it the reason for the fixed view is to prevent downed avatars from acting as spies, reporting back to their team via text chat on enemy dispositions. The revival period is so short that allowing free look during this time would not affect this. The ability to free look while invulnerable would be invaluable to the reviving player, since it would allow better appraisal of the local situation and would also allow the player to get set pointing the way s/he wants to move once the invulnerability/immobility period has expired.

(Brinkman) #2

and how is this a bug? :???:

(FallenMatt) #3
  1. i die
  2. medic revives me
  3. i have enemy right at me shooting at me
  4. finally i can move, i hit forward to run away and possibly shoot back
  5. … but suddenly i find myself in a corner facing a wall with enemy behind me

… since i just got revived i am low on health
… since i just got revived the enemy had time (assumming nobody is shooting at him) to predict were my head will be when i get up and aims there
… so i face the wall, two or three shots into my head and i am dead again
those two shots came faster then me trying to figure out where the hell i am looking and try to turn away/run away

… annoying as hell

(highboy) #4

I am pretty that I sure, that i would be a bit disoriented if i was shot by a gun and then revived… 8)

This should not be considerd as a bug…

(Coolhand) #5

I don’t understand how anyone could consider that this is NOT a bug. OK, call it a feature, if you wish, but this behaviour is clearly not intended. I suspect it is an accidental byproduct of implementing the “no free mouse look” while on the ground awaiting a medic.

It results in frustration on the part of players affected by it (as in the example given by FallenMatt).

It’s also very frustrating for medics (such as me!) who may feel they are simply wasting their time reviving people whose ability to survive is hampered in this way.

Also, as I suggested in http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1656 it creates a knock-on problem for those who use the TK/revive. I don’t like the TK/revive myself but if a medic uses this on me I would rather not have this additional problem (which may very easily result in me getting killed where I wouldn’t have if the medic had left me to my own devices).

YMMV… I still plan to submit this as a bug report :stuck_out_tongue:

(Cyber-Knight) #6

it’s all about balance!
if you were on the floor and just got revived, does it make it fair to you that you should have the upperhand on teh person who just killed you (you also have that small spawn shield upon being revived)? of course not, you should be at the disadvantage cuz you should’ve been dead in the first place.

that’s why you need ppl to cover the medics and the ppl he is reviving.

and any good wolf player knows, you hafta be fast, be decisive on your decision making, and think on your feet to be one of the better players in this game cuz the pace is fast.

(Coolhand) #7

I agree your point that “cover me!” applies as much to medics as any other class, but…

Um… how does someone who is invulnerable but unable to move or fire have any kind of “upperhand” on anyone else at all?

I can only assume that you haven’t played much original RtCW, because this is how that game works. ET is made different from this only by the introduction of the “no free mouse look while down” behaviour, which is I believe where this bug originates.

Either that, or you’re winding me up :stuck_out_tongue:

(Coolhand) #8

It seems some people think that this is either not a bug, or perhaps something so trivial as not to be worth worrying about (the latter may have a point, perhaps I should get a life :smiley: )

However, having played both ET and RtCW I can say that ET is by far superior, with this one exception. Being revived in RtCW is not the dicey gamble it has become in ET. I like playing a medic, and this bug simply ruins the game experience for me.

If the “no free mouse look” upon down was implemented to “fix” the presumed “unbalancing” of allowing semi-dead players to spy on the enemy, then the balance has shifted too far the other way, disadvantaging both medics and the rest of the team who are relying on them to keep them up and fighting. I suspect that in many situations a team will be better off without any medics at all while this “feature” is in play :frowning:

(amazinglarry) #9

Well… As far as I’m aware in real life there’s no such needle to make a wounded soldier on the battlefield stand up and run away and feel pretty damn good in the process.

Of course if there were such a thing… you’d see your self stand up… then if you tried to make any movement in the next 3 seconds you’d be all over the road… but after the 3 seconds are up, you’re completely back to normal.

Sounds like some sort of BUG to me!

(Esf_Dr.X) #10

u get disoriented when u lie there waiting for a medic to revive…u look around u and see if theres a medic coming for u by using the mouse, right?
when u died,remember how u fell and when u get revived u will be in the same position wakening up but if u turn and use your mouse to see if a medic is around,then u get disoriented the moment u wake up.

(Coolhand) #11

Hi Dr. X :slight_smile:

As always, I’m not sure I’m understanding what it is that you’re saying :wink:

Let me try and re-phrase it: In RtCW you can look around while you’re “almost dead”. In ET you cannot. In both, if a medic is nearby, the view will shift to point to the medic.

So, yes, so far at least I think we’re in agreement :slight_smile:

Nope, that’s not (quite) it.

In ET, if you move your mouse after the needle has been applied then this movement doesn’t immediately cause a change in view. However, these movements are “stored up” and applied all at once at the point when you are free to move. So what happens is that you’ll be looking one way when the needle hits, and then when the invulnerability has worn off you’ll find that you’re suddenly pointing in some other direction. Which is extremely disorientating, annoying and frustrating.

In RtCW, this never happens: you always know where you’re looking. And it’s much a more pleasant (fun!) experience :slight_smile:

Some people have suggested that a “fix” is to make sure that you don’t move the mouse at all until the invulnerability has worn off. This can work, but only for you (or me, as the case may be). A big part of the problem as I see it is that this bug makes a medic’s job that much harder. I simply don’t have time to both apply medication and also teach the person I’m reviving that he has to make sure that he doesn’t move the mouse at all until blah blah blah… and the disorientation that occurs if my patient moves his mouse could well be enough to get him killed again, which makes it less than pointless reviving in the first place.

What with this and the “mysterious tap-out bug”, being an ET medic truly sucks. I’m not surprised that so many medics go rambo - it’s too frustrating trying to play a proper medic’s role with things the way they currently are. Doing “the superman thing” is much more fun… but it ruins teamplay.

(Kendle) #12

Coolhand, I completely agree with your opening post, and agree that it’s definately a bug, and furthermore it does seem logical that it’s an unforeseen side effect of applying the “no mouse free look while dead” change in E.T.

However, I don’t think it’s as big an issue as you make out. I’ve learned now to keep still until the invunerability wears off. That negates the effect of the bug on me, and allows me to plan my movements for when I’m able to start moving again (albeit I can’t see who’s behind me etc.)

Also, this bug hasn’t unduely affected my enjoyment of playing Medic, which is my most favoured Class. The “tap-out” bug is by far the bigger issue for Meds. I don’t see how it makes playing Med worthless. A dis-orientated, but alive, team-mate, is surely more use than a completely dead one?

My advice would be, submit the bug report, by email, in the proper way, as it certainly is a bug. However, in the meantime, until it’s fixed (if it gets fixed) learn to adapt to it on the rare occasion there’s another Med besides you on your team and in the even more unlikely event that you’ll actually get revived by him/her. :slight_smile:

(Coolhand) #13

I’m glad to hear that this doesn’t upset your gameplay. I prefer medic to any other class, and have played as a medic almost exclusively since the first RtCW beach test (far more than is good for me, I’m sure!). My own experience is that the ET medic is badly hampered in comparison with the original. I played a game of RtCW (Market Garden) for the first time in a couple of weeks the other night, and the medicage I was giving - and receiving - was pure bliss!

If anyone objects to curing this problem on the grounds that medics are already too powerful, I would be perfectly happy if some of the special abilities were toned down to compensate. For instance, I believe that removing the automatic medic self-regeneration would go a long way to curing the “rambo effect”, by making medics a little more conscious of their team-mates relative vulnerability.

One of the reasons I’m arguing for this change is that it (in conjunction with the “mysterious tap-out bug”) doesn’t just affect the medic, it affects the entire team, spoiling teamplay. Quoting myself in a different thread: