Revert double time please

(extraordinaryEmperor) #41

If people like that they can reload while sprinting, then simple have “sprint cancels reload: off”. Because otherwise, the settings don’t correlate with the gameplay.

(extraordinaryEmperor) #42

@Ardez And I don’t know what crouch reload cancelling is because I’ve never had it happen to me.

(Szakalot) #43

not sure what the drama is about. OP is perfectly right, at least as long reload cancel is available on non-double time loadouts.

and i say it as someone who doesnt really use reload cancel, and doubke time is my favorite augment

(AnonOmis1000) #44

As I stated before, the reason for there being a setting that allows you to cancel a read using sprint is so that you can run away if you got jumped during a reload. Being able to use this to make your reload shorter was likely unintentional. Whether or not they want it as a feature still remains to be seen.

But being able to reload while sprinting is way more beneficial. You can achieve al or the same thing by quick switching. It’s slightly slow but only by a hair.

(Ardez1) #45

[quote=“Szakalot;166156”]not sure what the drama is about. OP is perfectly right, at least as long reload cancel is available on non-double time loadouts.

and i say it as someone who doesnt really use reload cancel, and doubke time is my favorite augment[/quote]

The drama at the moment is that @extraordinaryEmperor believes that he should still be able to reload cancel by sprinting on a loadout with Doubletime. This was how it worked previously. There was a change a patch or two ago that made your reload not get cancelled by starting to sprint if you have double time. The suggestion to use a loadout without double time is apparently not a reasonable option to them.

(Saiph) #46

For those who think reload cancel is not intentional, just go to settings, look at the option “SPRINT CANCEL RELOAD ON/OFF” and here you have your proof. And the reason why it’s intended is that it’s just featured in tons of other FPS games. (And that’s not the topic. The problem is that AN AUGMENT has a drawback;)

You admit that there is a bug with double time. You know that a simple fix exists. And you think the solution is “People should just not use it” ? Because you aren’t affected by it, that means this should not be fixed ?

Instead of explaining that I should not play with it if I find it bad, which is obvious and was already shown to be a terrible argument by OP on page 1, I’d rather read you explain WHY some people should be forced to play iron cards or different loadouts because there’s a negative perk on one of them. As well as how impartial it is that a “volunteer moderator” moderates people he’s discussing with.

(SzGamer227) #47

Can I just say that “sprint to cancel reload” is massively overrated? I may be a medicore player at best, but I have never, never had an incident where the split-second I spend scrolling to secondary and then back to primary to cancel a reload has ever gotten me killed. It seems that the people who don’t like Double Time because of sprint-to-cancel-reload are just the ones who habitually sprint to cancel reload. Just my two cents; form better habits.

(Ardez1) #48

That setting prevents you from running while reloading if it is turned off. By cancel it does NOT mean end the reload early with a full clip. It means interrupt the reload WITHOUT it being completed, aka without replacing the clip in the gun. Not the same thing as what you are talking about.

[quote=“Saiph;166321”]

You admit that there is a bug with double time. You know that a simple fix exists. And you think the solution is “People should just not use it” ? Because you aren’t affected by it, that means this should not be fixed ? [/quote]
The bug was that your reload was interrupted if you tried to sprint while reloading with this augment on your loadout. If you time it right your reload will still count as being finished which is what you are trying to do. With that bug it allowed you to reload cancel. With the bug fixed, which allows you to reload while sprinting, this is no longer possible.

People should indeed player with different loadouts if there are aspects of a loadout they do not like. For example, I actually dislike quick charge on Sparks’ revive gun because it starts to overheat faster because it reaches full charge faster. In order to have more aiming time and less loss of battery holding down the trigger I don’t use the ever popular 383 Companion Agent card. I consider that augment a negative and not a positive.

Then on Fragger, while the M4 is a more accurate gun I prefer the K121 and use that loadout instead. I don’t like how quickly the clip runs out of ammo on the M4 relative to the LMG and in a longer fight more bullets = better imo. With his higher health pool you can expect to live a little longer then everybody else so you have more time to fire as well. Not to mention you have the same total number of clips, which equates to a much larger ammo pool with the K121. So I consider the M4 a negative relative to the K121 and use loadouts with that gun instead.

If you would like to discuss the warning I sent to you, please feel free to send me a PM. I’m open to talking about it if you want to. That being said, if something breaks forums rules it does not matter if I am part of the conversation or not. It won’t be blindly ignored for the sake of debate. Again, feel free to send me a PM to discuss further.

(Gi.Am) #49

Weird topic.

I’mean the default of the game is: You are not allowed to reload and sprint at the same time!

The option in settings only says, what should take precedence. Will tapping sprint while I reload cancel reload and allow me to sprint, or do I have to wait till I have finished reloading before I can sprint again. Obviously with all the surprise explosives around sprint is more important than reloading and therefore its sensible that this is the default option.

However doubletime says, hey why not have both. And gives you the ability to sprint and reload at the same time.

I hardly use doubletime myself but the idea that the only way it works (used to work) is when you sprint first and than press reload, was always strange to me.

Because situations when I’m already reloading and than suddenly have to run away but thanks to doubletime still finish my reload already in progress, seems atleast to me, like the kind of use case I would want to get out of doubletime. Atleast more often then the other way round.

(Saiph) #50

[quote=“Ardez;166327”]
That setting prevents you from running while reloading if it is turned off. By cancel it does NOT mean end the reload early with a full clip. It means interrupt the reload WITHOUT it being completed, aka without replacing the clip in the gun. Not the same thing as what you are talking about.
[/quote]So you admit that canceling a reload in the middle of the animation at least is intended by the devs. So you admit that this perk prevents players from using an intended mechanism and thus, that the argument “Double time is fine because reload cancel is not intended by devs” is wrong.

The rest doesn’t matter for me because it’s completely off-topic with double time. But if you really want to know, fixing the shorter reload stuff would just require to match the lreload times with the lengths of the animation frames. ie: just changing some values in a text file (not even a developper work).

[quote=“Ardez;166206”]
The bug was that your reload was interrupted if you tried to sprint while reloading with this augment on your loadout. If you time it right your reload will still count as being finished which is what you are trying to do. With that bug it allowed you to reload cancel. With the bug fixed, which allows you to reload while sprinting, this is no longer possible.[/quote]

Pre-patch, if you want to reload while sprinting, you press sprint THEN reload.
If you press reload then sprint, it will cancel your reload because it is exactly the option you chose to enable. That’s not a bug. With that system, no player has to change any of their habit when using that augment.

(Ardez1) #51

[quote=“Saiph;166349”][quote=“Ardez;166327”]
That setting prevents you from running while reloading if it is turned off. By cancel it does NOT mean end the reload early with a full clip. It means interrupt the reload WITHOUT it being completed, aka without replacing the clip in the gun. Not the same thing as what you are talking about.
[/quote]So you admit that canceling a reload in the middle of the animation at least is intended by the devs. So you admit that this perk prevents players from using an intended mechanism and thus, that the argument “Double time is fine because reload cancel is not intended by devs” is wrong.

The rest doesn’t matter for me because it’s completely off-topic with double time. But if you really want to know, fixing the shorter reload stuff would just require to match the lreload times with the lengths of the animation frames. ie: just changing some values in a text file (not even a developper work).

[quote=“Ardez;166206”]
The bug was that your reload was interrupted if you tried to sprint while reloading with this augment on your loadout. If you time it right your reload will still count as being finished which is what you are trying to do. With that bug it allowed you to reload cancel. With the bug fixed, which allows you to reload while sprinting, this is no longer possible.[/quote]

Pre-patch, if you want to reload while sprinting, you press sprint THEN reload.
If you press reload then sprint, it will cancel your reload because it is exactly the option you chose to enable. That’s not a bug. With that system, no player has to change any of their habit when using that augment.[/quote]

Going to jump back to my first post on this thread here.

Please bring this up more and shout to the heavens about the issues with double time not working with reload cancelling. I’m sure the devs will fix it by only making the reload count if it gets to the end of the animation. :wink: Poof, problem solved. Reload cancelling is out of the game and the augment has a good spot for those who used to reload cancel because it is better then having to stand there and wait out the entire animation.

(Saiph) #52

So now your “argument” is : It should not be fixed, because if the devs try to fix it, they will do it in a incompetent manner ? Better and better.

There is a simple problem, and a simple solution: make it like before.

(Rjsto) #53

[quote=“Saiph;166389”]So now your “argument” is : It should not be fixed, because if the devs try to fix it, they will do it in a incompetent manner ? Better and better.

There is a simple problem, and a simple solution: make it like before. [/quote]

I feel like you and op wouldn’t be enough encouragement for the devs to start changing mechanics of the game again

(Ardez1) #54

[quote=“Saiph;166389”]So now your “argument” is : It should not be fixed, because if the devs try to fix it, they will do it in a incompetent manner ? Better and better.

There is a simple problem, and a simple solution: make it like before. [/quote]

No. My argument was that they would take it away intentionally so that people wouldn’t assume that exploits are the same thing as intended mechanics.

(Saiph) #55

Please read your quote. What you wrote is not what you’re saying now.

And that’s also not an argument. The topic is double time, not deciding whether cancel reload should be in the game.

A lot of people complained about this when the patch came out. I don’t know OP at all, and he still complained for the exact same thing one week after me. Sorry, but there are a lot of noobs on this forum. I’m not lying, ask every pro player and they will tell you: Double time is garbage now.

(extraordinaryEmperor) #56

[quote=“Ardez;166391”][quote=“Saiph;166389”]So now your “argument” is : It should not be fixed, because if the devs try to fix it, they will do it in a incompetent manner ? Better and better.

There is a simple problem, and a simple solution: make it like before. [/quote]

No. My argument was that they would take it away intentionally so that people wouldn’t assume that exploits are the same thing as intended mechanics.[/quote]

Ardez, is this viable evidence? https://www.reddit.com/r/Dirtybomb/comments/3zltvb/a_guide_to_reload_mechanics/

Also, choosing another loadout means I’m missing on what may be two good perks with my favourite guns. Not to mention that if there’s an iron loadout just without the double sprint (like fletcher’s shotty one) then that means I’m playing with 1 less perk that could have been something else. I don’t see how it’s fair. If that’s the case then make all perks have some form of downside then.

And like I said, if people want to be able to sprint when they first reloaded, simply turn off “cancel reload on sprint”. I don’t see why they simply couldn’t have just changed their setting depending on their loadout to suit their playstyle.

(AnonOmis1000) #57

They really need to get rid of reload cancelation and do what CS GO does. You can cancel a reload by quick switching, but you can’t fire the weapon until the time it would have taken to complete the animation us up.

(Ardez1) #58

[quote=“extraordinaryEmperor;166414”][quote=“Ardez;166391”][quote=“Saiph;166389”]So now your “argument” is : It should not be fixed, because if the devs try to fix it, they will do it in a incompetent manner ? Better and better.

There is a simple problem, and a simple solution: make it like before. [/quote]

No. My argument was that they would take it away intentionally so that people wouldn’t assume that exploits are the same thing as intended mechanics.[/quote]

Ardez, is this viable evidence? https://www.reddit.com/r/Dirtybomb/comments/3zltvb/a_guide_to_reload_mechanics/

Also, choosing another loadout means I’m missing on what may be two good perks with my favourite guns. Not to mention that if there’s an iron loadout just without the double sprint (like fletcher’s shotty one) then that means I’m playing with 1 less perk that could have been something else. I don’t see how it’s fair. If that’s the case then make all perks have some form of downside then.

And like I said, if people want to be able to sprint when they first reloaded, simply turn off “cancel reload on sprint”. I don’t see why they simply couldn’t have just changed their setting depending on their loadout to suit their playstyle.[/quote]

Which member of the development team is Daft Kid? I’ve never heard of him. Looks like he is just a community member who made a video. Or are you talking about the SD post in the thread?

I don’t see why doing something besides sprinting to cancel the reload is such a big deal. Even in the video you can see Daft switch to melee to reload cancel instead of sprinting every time.

Edit: Reviewed your link further and updated the post. I only looked at the video the first time.

(extraordinaryEmperor) #59

Thrmpotc said: “Ah! Not even remotely a bug… it’s called a partial reload, and has been a staple of shooters for a long time now. It’s just a little skill element that can come in super handy at the right time.”

I’m not too familiar with reddit stuff but he has [SD]Exedore so I’m thinking he’s linked with the company?

Swap reloading is much slower than just sprint cancelling. If I’m swapping, then I’ll expend my secondary before switching back to my primary. Once again, if people don’t like the functionality of cancellling their reloading when they have double time, then change their settings. It’s as stupid as removing hold down to iron sight because people are too lazy to check settings.

(AnonOmis1000) #60

@extraordinaryEmperor he meant a TACTICAL reload. This is when you reload before you empty a magazine. Games like Payday 2 and Insurgency have this feature. In the real world, in order to fire a gun, you need to have a round in the chamber. On self reloading weapons (all the guns in DB except the bolt action snipers, shotguns, and revolvers) normally the gas from the previous bullet push the received back, pulling the next round into the chamber, then the spring pushes the receiver back in so the gun is ready to fire again. Of your gun does not have a bullet in the chamber when you put in a fresh magazine, you must manually chamber one. You did this by cocking the weapon (on pistols, this is when you pull the slide back). This means that the time it takes to reload a weapon after all the rounds in the magazine are fired is longer than if you reloaded before the magazine was empty. Games like the ones I’ve mentioned replicate this.

Reload cancelation is a completely different. Reload cancelation is usually an exploit, where you do something that allows the gun to be able to fire before it would have if the reload animation had fully completed. One of the earliest situations of this that I’m familiar with is the first Halo game. Back then there was no Xbox live so there was no way to update a game after someone purchased the physical copy. In Halo, you could perform a reload cancelation by tapping the Y button twice in quick succession. Obviously this is not an intended feature as no where in the game is there a tool tip or tutorial explaining this.

There are some games that sort of have reload cancelation as a feature. Gears of War is one example. While reloading, there was a bar that would appear and a line traveled along that bar as the reload occurred. If you tapped the reload button again once the line was in a specific part of the bar, the reload would complete much faster. They went further by rewarding you for timing it correctly by having the rounds you just reloaded do more damage, and punished you for failing by causing a “jam” that resulted in a longer reload than normal.