Requests For Competition Tweaks

(Zhou Yu) #181

[QUOTE=deadlights;198540]
If I missed the point, my bad.
peace[/QUOTE]

Kind of, yeah.

The main point was that there was an inference that if there was a major issue with telling teammates apart from enemies in Brink, that it didn’t matter for pubbies but was somehow far more important for comp players - as if it was fine to have pubbies suffer a major bug/issue with the game but that somehow it had to be fixed for the comp players immediately. Obviously this indicates a pretty derogative attitude towards pub players as it infers they are less worthy of a full functioning game just because they are playing in pubs rather than comp.

Hopefully that gives a general overview of the issue, but what’s important is that it shouldn’t matter anyway. I trust SD enough (except for bawb) to not **** up something as basic but important as telling enemies apart from friendlies :p. This “issue” arose from, effectively, speculation based off of glimpses of a pre-alpha product. We still don’t know very much at all about how Brink actually plays (or more importantly will play) so back-and-forth-ing about whether comp players deserve brightskins more than pub players seems a little silly, as we don’t even know that brightskins will be useful.

(tokamak) #182

…OR desired. ETQW already worked with fully functioning shadows, maybe this is being improved and now lightening plays a vital role in the gameplay. I could simply break some features.

(darthmob) #183

[QUOTE=tokamak;198569]See, that’s exactly the problem! Why should competition be more fair and balanced? A pub player is not in any way a less serious player.[/QUOTE]It’s actually quite simple. Competitive matches play under conditions that in most cases do not apply to the average pub.

  • less players
  • very coordinated teams who will exploit any weakness for their own good

ETQW is a pretty good example. The public play was balanced for 24 players. A typical clanwar was played with half as many players. One consequence was that there were way too many vehicles which resulted in endless spam. Have fun attacking an objective with 6 players when there are 2 desecrators, 2 cyclops and a … (what was the strogg flyer called again? :D) defending it.

(tokamak) #184

Brink is 8v8 and comp wants even less players?

(timestart) #185

Yeah. 4v4, machineguns only, no SMART, no objectives (just team DM), everyone must play as medic, no turrets, no mines, everything except players must be bright luminous green.

You have been trolled, thank you for participating!

(deadlights) #186

Ok Tok, Zhou:

I understand the confusion.

First, we don’t know if it will be hard to tell the teams apart until we are playing and giving it feedback. We have to trust that SD is playtesting and getting it sorted. I think it is a little silly of the BRINK community here to jump the gun and assume it will be hard to tell the other team apart. You don’t give yourself enough credit.

Think back to some big games… ETQW, WET, CSS, COD4. At times, one could argue it is hard to tell the other team apart. But how do we do it? It what I call the video game 6th sense. One team starts at one side of the map, the other at the other… As you fight you start to see player patterns , choke points, where people attack from, where people do objectives etc… You guys are not giving yourselfs enough credit. Alot of the time is it not player skins, but simple knowledge of the game. And this in return helps up realize what the enemies look like, even if they are hard to distinguish. I had problems with CoD4 at first, now it is simple.

Ok so the question is WHY? Why favor one group and not the other…?

Well alot of the time, is it not the developers that are doing the favoritng. Most of the time, if not all… The ProMod is made by the community. The comp community. And as long as the source code is open, the dev’s don’t have control on that… And then what will happen is the game will be changed to balance it on a smaller level or to eradicate some things that made it a little unfair.

For example: ETQW… There were weapon restrictions on both teams, the spread on the guns were changed, upgrades were removed, nades from med boxes were removed… things like that. Would you consider that favoring comp players?

The point I am making is skins should not be changed unless needed. Unless it is vital to balancing a competetive community. And that should not be an arguement. Most likely it will not happen, and if it does it is not favortism, I want you to look at it like different game play.

I think the point of this thread was to ask SD to maybe already get a jump on it so when the game is out some people have a few tweaks to use to start getting some scrims. But knowing the customization of this game, maybe clan jerseys are already in the works? Maybe this arguement is pointless?

Maybe when you make a clan and invite people to it like you did in ETQW, not only do you get a list of names and a stat page, but maybe you get to make a jersey? Like people have in GW as a cape, or WoW as a cape? And if not, DAMN THAT IS A GOOD IDEA!

Cheers.

(tokamak) #187

Fine, fine I do agree competition organisers should be able to tweak their matches how they see fit. Full control over what can and cannot happen. If they want to enforce everyone fights naked and call it the ‘Naked League’ so be it.

Just don’t frame a gameplay or balance feature as something that is important in competition and not in pubs, that’s just insulting.

(Shiv) #188

[QUOTE=darthmob;198580]It’s actually quite simple. Competitive matches play under conditions that in most cases do not apply to the average pub.

  • less players
  • very coordinated teams who will exploit any weakness for their own good

ETQW is a pretty good example. The public play was balanced for 24 players. A typical clanwar was played with half as many players. One consequence was that there were way too many vehicles which resulted in endless spam. Have fun attacking an objective with 6 players when there are 2 desecrators, 2 cyclops and a … (what was the strogg flyer called again? :D) defending it.[/QUOTE]

yes, because the vehicles weren’t locked to 1 heavy, 1 med and the aircraft weren’t disabled.

o wait.

(deadlights) #189

[QUOTE=tokamak;198601]Fine, fine I do agree competition organisers should be able to tweak their matches how they see fit. Full control over what can and cannot happen. If they want to enforce everyone fights naked and call it the ‘Naked League’ so be it.

Just don’t frame a gameplay or balance feature as something that is important in competition and not in pubs, that’s just insulting.[/QUOTE]

Cool, thanks for finding some common ground with us. I see how that would bug you… But that is very unlikely that SD would ever do that to you.

OK cheers mate. We will chat later in other threads!

(.Chris.) #190

Heard of such a thing called logistics?

It sometimes can be tough getting 5 members online at any given moment in a team, now add in 3 more players and you just get more opportunities for no shows due to anything from, PC troubles, net troubles, life troubles and such. Then you have problems for attending any LANs, getting 8 players who can take time off work at same time is a lot harder than getting 5, then you have to take into account accommodation issues aswell.

At end of day it’s just less hassle to have smaller team sizes.

I’ve just skimmed back past couple of pages and still don’t get why you’ve thrown a hissy fit over the bright skins suggestion, no one even claimed that been able to spot enemies was only a concern/priority for competition players…

(tokamak) #191

But that’s only a practical problem. I don’t see how 6v6 would result in better cometition play if the game is already designed for 8v8.

And if logistics are a problem I would refer to the guild matchmaking suggestion.

I’ve just skimmed back past couple of pages and still don’t get why you’ve thrown a hissy fit over the bright skins suggestion, no one even claimed that been able to spot enemies was only a concern/priority for competition players…

Yes he did

(Anti) #192

[QUOTE=chr1s;198703]Heard of such a thing called logistics?

It sometimes can be tough getting 5 members online at any given moment in a team, now add in 3 more players and you just get more opportunities for no shows due to anything from, PC troubles, net troubles, life troubles and such. Then you have problems for attending any LANs, getting 8 players who can take time off work at same time is a lot harder than getting 5, then you have to take into account accommodation issues aswell.

At end of day it’s just less hassle to have smaller team sizes.

I’ve just skimmed back past couple of pages and still don’t get why you’ve thrown a hissy fit over the bright skins suggestion, no one even claimed that been able to spot enemies was only a concern/priority for competition players…[/QUOTE]

Meh. In my day we had to run 14v14 Tribes 2 clans. You needed 25 members just to have enough on match day and constant recruitment was a given due to the turnover of players. 8v8 a problem?! You kids don’t know you’re born! :smiley:

(.Chris.) #193

Yeah sounds super awesome!

(Nail) #194

clan armbands would seem to cover it

(DarkangelUK) #195

Or clan lifejackets and gardening gloves? :wink:

(darthmob) #196

[QUOTE=Anti;198786]Meh. In my day we had to run 14v14 Tribes 2 clans. You needed 25 members just to have enough on match day and constant recruitment was a given due to the turnover of players. 8v8 a problem?! You kids don’t know you’re born! :D[/QUOTE]I wonder how long you were waiting to start a match. I think the average waiting time before a match could start was about 20-25 minutes for us in 6on6 ET. There’s always someone who has to fix his internet, take a dump, is from one second to the other mysteriously missing or is talking on the phone. :rolleyes:

(dohfOs) #197

back in the early days of battlefield 1942 we played 12vs12 aswell. and yeah. the matches were always late. up to 45mins/1h… in the end you didn’t expect otherwise so when a game started “just” 30 mins late. it was basically “on time” :slight_smile:

prefer 5v5 tbh, earier to have stable lineups and to get going in time :slight_smile:

(mortis) #198

i recall big matches in Unreal Tournament as well…spammy but fun!

(Anti) #199

It wasn’t that bad. Leagues had rules on start times, if you didn’t start by 15 mins after the scheduled match time then you’d forfeit the game. You could start with X less players than the required too, so in 14v14 you could start with 10, in 10v10 you could start with eight.

Generally it’s all about clan leaders not letting their troops slack though! :slight_smile:

(MorsTua) #200

i believe you but nowadays is hard to get already 5 players to play a match 8 is pratically impossible.
(talkin about competitions)

plus noone will make lans for brink cause every clans will need 8+ players
(have u seen quakewars lans? i didn’t)

One of the failing choices of quakewars were the too big maps and the big number of players needed to play (6on6 were ridicolous… cause the game wasn’t born for 6on6)

this aint tribes and we arent in 1999

ps: am 35 yo i am not a kid, i have always been cl and i know what i am talkin about :wink: