Redeye. Some changes that I want to hear you guys opinion on.

(GottaBeGreg) #1

I recently picked up Redeye, as you all probably know from my containment war movement discussion. I have a few balance improvements for this character and more specifically his Grandeur. I feel that these changes will not unbalance this merc and merely male him more usable at a higher tier.

Firstly regarding his ability. In its current spot it is very tidy, however, if I turn it on with my cross-hair on someone it should ALWAYS spot them, and sometimes it fails to do so. This is the main use of the ability besides seeing through your smoke and as such I feel that this needs to be a thing. Yes, I realize a lot of the time it will spot immediately, but there are sometimes where it doesn’t do so and this should not be a thing.

Smoke grenade. As I have previously said, Redeye’s smoke grenade was affected by the so called Fletcher Shadow nerf, and he is now slower to throw his smoke. I say that since you have confirmed that you are in fact reverting the shadow change on Fletcher, I think its only just that you do the same with Redeye. Currently on demand smoke is about two seconds away compared to the previous one second, and this is not cool when seconds count for as much as they do in this game.

Now for the big bad. The Grandeur. I realize the spot you are in and that you want this weapon to be in said spot, the middle ground between sniper and dreiss-esque AR, however I believe that when compared to other weapons this weapon needs to be changed/ buffed A LITTLE. I am not talking about an overhauling here, I am talking minor tweaks. There are a million and one posts regarding iron sights on this puppy, and I actually don’t mind them myself, so I will say nothing on the topic here. However the hip-fire accuracy needs to either increased here or decreased on Sparks side, because once again, there is next to no reason to use the dedicated hip-fire sniper with one-shot on low health mercs, slow strafing speed, atrocious recoil (I don’t think you need to change this though, recoil is fine where it is) over the reviving, high strafing speed, oneshot headshot, pinpoint accurate on all mercs bar two Revive gun. In order to make this actually balanced, either increase the hipfire accuracy of the Grandeur to be equal with the Revivor or decrease the hipfire accuracy of the Revive gun, preferably the former. Another change that I think needs to be a thing is making the damage remain constant. If I shoot a 120 health merc three times without any healing in between, he should always die. But instead, for some reason my shot sometimes deal 28 damage, meaning that it takes a fourth shot and I inevitably die/ miss/ pistol whip his ass. This is ridiculous. With the recoil and accuracy into consideration three shots hit with this weapon deserves a kill.

Lastly, slightly more radical than the rest of the ideas, I propose that headshotting a merc with 15 health or less with the Grandeur (and perhaps the Pdp, perhaps) should gib. This would likely affect only double headshots on 90 health mercs like Proxy and Kira and these are uncommon as heck, so I think that they deserve a little recognition for the precision that is required.

(bizarreRectangle) #2

I came here expecting some stupid complaint about redeye being underpowered and some ridiculous suggestions. But I find the changes on the eye and smoke good, although those are more like bug fixes. They made the iron sights better so I don’t know why people would still complain about that.

The grandeur’s hip-fire accuracy is fine, I think that the revivr’s charge time, battery and redeye’s health balances things out. However I also get the same problems with the damage, I really hate it when I need to shoot the aura one more time. I don’t know if it changes when you hit ppl on the limbs or if it’s damage fall-off. But I really hope that they fix that, it’s like they’re punishing you after you managed to get 2-3 shots off someone.

I’m not sure about the instant gib, I feel like sd won’t really change it. But I have nothing against that.

(watsyurdeal) #3

I agree with the op, the hipfire needs to be dead on accurate, otherwise there is no point in using it.

I believe the Dreiss should be the same way

No more instant gibs, let’s just toss that out, the game feels so much more fun now with that out of it.

(ProfPlump) #4

[quote=“bizarreRectangle;103947”]I came here expecting some stupid complaint about redeye being underpowered and some ridiculous suggestions. But I find the changes on the eye and smoke good, although those are more like bug fixes. They made the iron sights better so I don’t know why people would still complain about that.

The grandeur’s hip-fire accuracy is fine, I think that the revivr’s charge time, battery and redeye’s health balances things out. However I also get the same problems with the damage, I really hate it when I need to shoot the aura one more time. I don’t know if it changes when you hit ppl on the limbs or if it’s damage fall-off. But I really hope that they fix that, it’s like they’re punishing you after you managed to get 2-3 shots off someone.

I’m not sure about the instant gib, I feel like sd won’t really change it. But I have nothing against that.[/quote]

Agreed with everything you said, except that you said that the REVIV-R vs. Granduer is a fair fight. It is not.

The Sparks can strafe incredibly fast left and right (making her incredibly hard to hit) while shooting incredibly accurately using HIPFIRE (which means she can strafe faster than if she required ADS). On top of this, she can heal any non-1hitkills instantly and continue shooting back. She is also a small target due to her size (duh).

The Redeye can strafe very slowly but HAS to ADS, making his strafe even slower and his aim a little tougher since he has to deal with the fairly average ironsights. Redeye cannot heal himself once he gets damaged. He is also a moderate sized merc, so he’s a pretty easy target.

(Also I should mention that I’m assuming that the two players, both Sparks and Redeye, are experienced - noob Sparks players are incredibly easy to kill (because they stand there and let you line up headshots), and noob Redeye players will rarely aim down sights because they aren’t aware of how bad the Grandeur’s hipfire accuracy is). I’m mentioning this only because I don’t want to hear people saying “I’ve killed tonnes of Sparks players with a Grandeur” or vice versa - the point is that a fight between Sparks and Redeye, played by two equally skilled players at high levels, will VERY rarely end in the Redeye coming out on top.

(RyePanda) #5

I’m just saying, as long as you aren’t far away, the grandeur’s time to kill on sparks is 0.

Also, you said there’s no reason to use the grandeur over the revive gun, but the grandeur has a faster ROF, and doesn’t need to charge.

(VincentRJaeger) #6

I’ve killed tonnes of Sparks with a Grandeur @Faraleth

Jokes aside, I’m here with the OP. I’ve also noticed the smoke being a bit slower than usual and would not mind this change to be reverted like with Fletcher. The ironsights are actually alright on them now I feel but it’s as you say; The Hipfire is plain bad. I would almost dare say that you should switch between REVIVR and Grandeur and have the Grandeur be buffed in hipfire accuracy and the REVIVR nerfed. Only minor tweaks, nothing too major.

Not sure what I think about the instagib idea, to be honest.

(GottaBeGreg) #7

Well it depends upon what your definition of instagib is as to wether they are in the game or not, because what I’m saying is an instagib (as in no need to be finished) from reduced health, which is already a thing from Vasillis high powered rifles, only they instagib (ie automatically finish) from 50 health or above. This is much more powerful than 15 health, as very rarely are people going to be running around on that low of health, meaning its barely going to be noticeable. This just gives an incentive to get two headshots on a Proxy or Kira, or perhaps get lucky with some additional damage from another source.

Therefore I think straight out dismissing this mechanic is a little short sighted and it might make a nice little addition to the gun.

(ProfPlump) #8

[quote=“RyePanda;103981”]I’m just saying, as long as you aren’t far away, the grandeur’s time to kill on sparks is 0.

Also, you said there’s no reason to use the grandeur over the revive gun, but the grandeur has a faster ROF, and doesn’t need to charge.[/quote]

[quote=“RyePanda;103981”]I’m just saying, as long as you aren’t far away, the grandeur’s time to kill on sparks is 0.

Also, you said there’s no reason to use the grandeur over the revive gun, but the grandeur has a faster ROF, and doesn’t need to charge.[/quote]

The time to kill on sparks CAN be 0, this is true. And it is an important stat (because it’s basically the only way you can kill her). However, it’s VERY difficult if you’re playing against a Sparks who is constantly strafing and jumping while shooting at you.

And you’re saying that grandeur has a faster ROF… Sure, if you want to spam and lose all your accuracy. I’m getting the impression that you don’t use the Grandeur very much, because if you did use it you’ll know that spamming it yields the same results as spamming the S&W or the Simeon pistols - the spread goes all over the place if you’re hipfiring, and the recoil while ADS is insane. You CANNOT fire the Grandeur at its full firerate without relying on RNG instead of any skill and accuracy.

(GottaBeGreg) #9

@RyePanda Uhm, I hate to say this, but no. Pick up these two weapons please, before you say stuff like this. The speed at which you can spam the REVIVR is massive and it has no recoil (<— See that, NO RECOIL!) meaning you can actually spam the thing effectively, whereas the atrocious (for lack of a better word) recoil on the Grandeur massively limits its EFFECTIVE RoF. Sure, the stats might say that the Grandeurs’ RoF is better but it just plain doesn’t work that way. Not to mention, when you are close with the Grandeur, a) Your doing it wrong, you are never trying to be in a close range scenario on Redeye, your trying to force Med-long distance fights, and b), the time to kill is NOT “0” at close range, its “Oh I hope I hit this chick twice (to the body and hope that the inconsistent damage doesn’t make it three*, one to the head I know but you aren’t going to hit that consistently unless you are a god) before she can heal mid-fight and Empire-9 me down to nothing”.

So please please please don’t tell me that the Grandeur RoF is higher than Sparks’ REVIVR, or that time to kill on a long range merc versus a versatile medic goddess of life and death merc at close range is “0”, because no, it isn’t and no, it isn’t!

(ProfPlump) #10

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;103954”]I agree with the op, the hipfire needs to be dead on accurate, otherwise there is no point in using it.

I believe the Dreiss should be the same way

No more instant gibs, let’s just toss that out, the game feels so much more fun now with that out of it.[/quote]

The hipfire doesn’t need to be dead on accurate, but it should be sufficient enough to be able to effectively spam at enemies in close range without going all over the place. You should still require iron sights for medium to long ranges.

And the insta-gibs are still in the game, you realise. The way they work right now for the MOA and FEL-IX is that a headshot will gib the merc if that merc is down to 50 health or less. Therefore adding in a similar insta-gib for the Grandeur at a very minimal 15 health or less would A) not be reverting back to the old ways of insta-gibbing (where any headshot that was the final shot would instantly gib, no matter how much health the opponent had left) and B) would be a very rare occurrence anyway - 15 or less health means you’re pretty screwed anyway, so having an insta-gib in that situation (for a semi automatic rifle) is barely noticeable in terms of balance. That said, I don’t think giving it an insta-gib ability would make the Grandeur OP anyway, since it’s currently one of the worst guns in the game.

(watsyurdeal) #11

[quote=“ProfPlump;104005”]

The hipfire doesn’t need to be dead on accurate, but it should be sufficient enough to be able to effectively spam at enemies in close range without going all over the place. You should still require iron sights for medium to long ranges.[/quote]

I disagree, I think you only be able to spam while iron sighting, while hipfiring, you need to have more control. Careful well aimed taps as opposed to shooting as fast as possible.

It should have enough accuracy to hit someone in the head from one end of the street on Chapel to the other, but after that shot bloom kicks in, and it should take a bit before you can fire that accurately again.

So realistically, what I’m looking for is a gun that you can fire at about, let’s say 165 rounds per minute with careful well timed taps, and when you fire while aiming, you can spam it at it’s full 270 ish rpm while maintaining accurate spread.

[quote=“ProfPlump;104005”]
And the insta-gibs are still in the game, you realise. The way they work right now for the MOA and FEL-IX is that a headshot will gib the merc if that merc is down to 50 health or less. Therefore adding in a similar insta-gib for the Grandeur at a very minimal 15 health or less would A) not be reverting back to the old ways of insta-gibbing (where any headshot that was the final shot would instantly gib, no matter how much health the opponent had left) and B) would be a very rare occurrence anyway - 15 or less health means you’re pretty screwed anyway, so having an insta-gib in that situation (for a semi automatic rifle) is barely noticeable in terms of balance. That said, I don’t think giving it an insta-gib ability would make the Grandeur OP anyway, since it’s currently one of the worst guns in the game.[/quote]

Yes I get that, but the way the op suggested it I feel is a bit out of place, see, we don’t need the ability to one shot really on the Grandeur, 2 head shots to kill everything but a Rhino would be great if it were really consistent and accurate. It’d easily be one of the best guns in the game if you knew what you were doing.

I’d absolutely trade 4 points of damage on the Grandeur if it meant more consistency.

(Sir_Slam) #12

I was playing around with the grandeur last night. Holy rusted metal batman, that bloom on the second shot is insane.

(aRagRappy) #13

Thats actually how the grandeur currently works, it’s pin point accurate on the first shot, but the recoil/bloom is really high afterwards. If you pause briefly between shots you can shoot quite fast for how much damage you do per shot when hip firing. Though the recoil and crappy sights make ADS bit of a pain, with the sights being the bigger problem to me since his gun is meant to hit hard but have high recoil.

I still think the iron sights are a complete clusterfuck and would like them to be changed quite a bit. Other changes I think redeye could use would be having his gun not glow as brightly as his targets when using IR, can be really difficult to track targets when your glowing white target is being obscured by your gun also being the same glowing white.

Giving redeye augments that are actually useful to him would be great. Like maybe using undercover to also increase smoke duration, something to increase spotted duration, or non ability based ones like toughness, quick swing or quickeye.

Most of his choices in secondaries also suck, the caulden and deagle have similar problems as his primaries and he is much more vulnerable than most characters at shooter ranges, so having other options than just the m9 would be nice.

Then there’s still the bug that lets you see enemy hp through smoke, hope they fix that soon. I have also noticed some of my shots doing less damage then that should, would like to know what that is about as well.

Overall I say that redeye is actually in a good spot but needs a bunch of QoL changes.

(watsyurdeal) #14

In my experience it’s actually not, maybe for up close but beyond a certain distance there’s no guarantee that you’ll hit someone in the head. The hipfire spread doesn’t allow it, at least that’s what I notice.

When you use the Normal Crosshair you’ll see the spread, it’ll expand quite a bit.

(aRagRappy) #15

So you were talking about that extra spread from moving, yeah I could see that being a small problem they should remove.

Though I do use the normal crosshair and I dont have problems hitting people in the head when I actually have it over their heads. Though that may come more from me pausing briefly to shoot then strafe again.

(RyePanda) #16

Uh, yes, it is, and yes, it is because head TTK is calculated assuming perfect accuracy.

(GottaBeGreg) #17

To assume is to make an ass out of u and me. There is no perfect accuracy and your basing this in theory rather than practice, because in practice your “TTK” is a bunch of crap. And hey, if we are assuming perfect accuracy well then the time to kill on a Sparks versus a Redeye is also “0” as the Sparks can basically walk around with her gun fully charged and a headshot from her “perfectly accurate” would one shot a Redeye.

I’m basing my arguments in PRACTICE, not THEORY, and I’m also recognizing that perfect accuracy isn’t a thing for most people. Your kinda not and it annoys me.

(GottaBeGreg) #18

@Watsyurdeal I think you have interpreted what I was saying about instagibs wrong… Im not saying that two headshots gibs everyone, Im saying that two headshot should gib a Proxy, or that a headshot on someone who already has reduced health to 15 or below should also gib them.
@aRagRappy Currently on Sparks, who we are using as a good point of comparison, even when she is strafing her accuracy remains pinpoint accurate, which is not what we get on the Grandeur.

(RyePanda) #19

[quote=“GottaBeGreg;104296”]To assume is to make an ass out of u and me. There is no perfect accuracy and your basing this in theory rather than practice, because in practice your “TTK” is a bunch of crap. And hey, if we are assuming perfect accuracy well then the time to kill on a Sparks versus a Redeye is also “0” as the Sparks can basically walk around with her gun fully charged and a headshot from her “perfectly accurate” would one shot a Redeye.

I’m basing my arguments in PRACTICE, not THEORY, and I’m also recognizing that perfect accuracy isn’t a thing for most people. Your kinda not and it annoys me.[/quote]

My argument was that the Granduer has some aspects that are better than the revive gun, which is not the death machine you seem to believe it to be. Sparks cannot keep her gun fully charged for a long time and it slows her movement. Her faster paced shots at the minimum charge do far less damage than a shot from the grandeur. Could the grandeur use a buff and the reviver get a nerf, sure. But the grandeur can be devastating if you time your shots and the revive gun has its limits.

(CCP115) #20

[quote=“GottaBeGreg;104299”]@Watsyurdeal I think you have interpreted what I was saying about instagibs wrong… Im not saying that two headshots gibs everyone, Im saying that two headshot should gib a Proxy, or that a headshot on someone who already has reduced health to 15 or below should also gib them.
@aRagRappy Currently on Sparks, who we are using as a good point of comparison, even when she is strafing her accuracy remains pinpoint accurate, which is not what we get on the Grandeur.[/quote]

Just chuck that extra gib damage onto his gun, like Vassili. I have barely played Redeye, so while I’m not able to comment extensively, I gotta say, he is the least played merc, aside Arty and Rhino.