[quote=Bezzy;206046]Converting male constumes to a female model is still lots of work, and would potentially take up more memory, depending on how it’s done.
Would we like them? Of course! Viva la difference! Unfortunately, as already stated, we have a memory budget, time limit, and other factors which hold us back from making female characters.
[/quote]
“Memory budget”, are you talking about console side limite ?
So PC version will be dumbed down because of console ? 
Couldn’t a “female” body type be a modified “thin” but with two bulges in front? That would, sort of, keep the armour and dress changes to a minimum.
Anyway, if costs permit, few would object to female characters. Otherwise, game dynamics over costumes, please. This is a game, after all, and not a social convention. As entertainment, what gender would you like your can-can dancers to be?
Is there room for voluptuous females at least in the “cut scenes” (if any)?
edit: (I voted “yes”, btw)
Hmm didn’t really read your post and wanted to say that for once :(, Oh well don’t mind me…
:stroggtapir::armadillochase:
You should’ve waited for the reply to my question, I bet that would be the ideal moment.
[QUOTE=Apples;206107]I really cant see how ppl can “hate female avatar in game”, I understand that its not a top priority, but hating female avatar??? Cmon…
As Szak mentioned the gameplay is allways first, but as brink will be rpg’ish with all the customizable content, they could increase the playerbase just by having some downloadable modelpack and mappack. Just my opinion OFC I’m not a game manager…
peace[/QUOTE]
Well, well, where did all the NO’s come from huh?
And adding some female clothing to a male’s wardrobe can work, as long as one uses imagination to pretend that he is a she. And who doesn’t like crossdressing huh?
Well, no. I have a vested heterosexual interest in the Doctor being a dude. 
Not the new one though. I wish they’d chosen the actor who played Billy in Blink.
And it’s hardly an industry standard. It’s a tv show. Plenty of tv shows with female leads. Too bad Eastwick was cancelled though.
[QUOTE=Exedore;206081]As another person who ‘boycotts’ all sorts of products and companies based on strange things called ‘principles’, don’t sell yourself short.
Thanks for expressing your views so intelligently and staying above some of the lows this thread has sunk to, it’s where any meaningful change starts. I see middleware as a potential solution for this annoying game industry problem, but nobody is going to think of that as a viable venture unless people are vocal about demanding change.[/QUOTE]
nod I figure the industry will evolve to be more chick-friendly as time goes on. After all, if they can figure out how to get more women to buy their games, it’ll likely mean more sales. I’m just trying to hurry it along, however miniscule my effort is. XD
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Unabashedly-Bookish/New-Romance-Video-Game-Boon-to-Gamers-Parents-Everywhere/bc-p/432673
^^^— That is not going to end well. >_< And it’s yet another reason why I want chicks to be seen as potential customers by the industry instead of a segregated system where women are herded toward playing Wii Fit and romance casual games. Those games suck.
A friend of mine didn’t buy a PS3 until she started playing littleBIGplanet with me. Now her husband has a dozen games for the system, and they sometimes argue over who gets to use the thing. 
Before that, she hadn’t played any game except The Sims (which is a game in which customization is pretty much the whole point).
Anyway, I do want to play Brink. The free-running aspect introduced into an FPS/RPG game will probably be awesome.
[QUOTE=signofzeta;206092]
And I see that profane still didn’t understand the deeper meaning in my viking post. And to be really vocal about the female avatar thing, one must actually do work to voice their opinion, and not simply a boycott and a forum post. How do you think women’s rights activists got what they wanted? By posting in forum, and not living in certain countries?[/quote]
There was deeper meaning than rape fantasy? Cool. What does where I live have to do with video games? O_o To top it off, women’s rights is a very different thing than what I’m asking for.
I’m not, contrary to what you may think, looking for equality in my video games. I’m looking for maximum enjoyment. The fact that it means I’m demanding female mods for a better immersive experience and to further an idea that both genders like video games (and that female gamers shouldn’t be seen as a rarity to be hit on and harassed in online gaming) is just about wanting better quality out of whatever I buy.
For instance, I rarely shop at Amazon.com anymore. It used to be where I spent a few hundred dollars a year on books alone. But because they deliberately slow down processing on orders using free shipping, I’ve switched to shopping at Borders. So they’ve lost a customer for asshatery. If I feel that a business isn’t doing its best to attract and keep me as a customer, then I assume, rightly, that they don’t need my patronage.
This means in Brink terms (and other games) that a lack of female mods implies that the female gamer is an unimportant customer. Or at least not as important as male customers. I can take my money elsewhere because they don’t need it. And currently, that’s not far off the mark. Female gamers and potential gamers are an afterthought in the industry, if that.
I’m not implying deliberate sexism. Like I’ve said before, stereotypes about what females (women and girls) like to do vs. what males like to do (ie, chicks don’t play video games) and the sheer lack of marketing towards women produces a market where men ARE the vast majority of customers. Ergo, a company has more interest (at the moment) in keeping and attracting male gamers than females. We are an afterthought not because women don’t matter PERIOD, but because of current stereotypes and market influences.
So I’m still standing by my boycott because I want every game I buy to be the best gaming experience I can have.
Converting people who hated having female avatars in games to having them, already shows you have power, and that also would convince Splash Damage of change. Right now, none of us are converted yet.
Why do people with picket signs prowl the streets? And when you see such people with picket signs, how many people are there?
How did you think the FLQ crisis happened? By French-Canadians not living in Canada, and whining in forum posts saying that Quebec should be a separate country?
And the whole terrorism thing. If terrorists were like profane, the world would be more peaceful. They are going to go to forums posting how much they hate americans, and they are not even remotely going to step foot in american soil, and fly into american airspace.
Uh…generally speaking, video games are part of a mass market. There isn’t, to my knowledge, a “headquarters” for the video game industry. So where would I picket? And why would a passing stranger, one who probably doesn’t play video games at all, care? On the other hand, a forum post where other gamers and people who work in the industry participate incites discussion, and even if the discussion goes against my arguments, it’s still discussion with people who do have a vested interest in video games.
If terrorists were like me, sweetie, they’d wouldn’t try blowing up planes by sticking bombs in their panties.
In fact, terrorism would be pretty ineffectual if it weren’t for our media sending out panic signals to every corner of the country, as if we’re all in eminent danger of being killed by an extremist. So what you’re really saying is, I should get the media all fired up about how a lack of female mods in video games diminishes gaming experiences for many female gamers? Yeeah.
…and here I thought it was enough that females looked better, to have them included. I guess that is too simple a perspective.
You think that the video game industry is segregated? How about the Engineering field? In the university I go to, this is how the segregation works. I don’t know what attracted certain people to certain fields, but this is how it works. I’m talking majority here.
Civil has white guys.
Electrical has fobs and browns.
Mechanical has a mixture of both.
Bio E has girls and men who can’t get into the other 3 fields.
But back to the point, even if there is no headquarters, if you can at least storm the headquarters of a popular game company, and a few others, and get media attention, that in itself will set an example to others. As for terrorism, they had more enemies than the US. Why attack them? Maybe because they have some sort of control over the world?
For now, getting females into well, a male oriented game takes time. Right now, there is just isn’t enough of you to warrant a change in this kind of thing yet.
And getting the media fired up is a good thing, because right now, developers just don’t care what gender plays the game. But that won’t work unless you have good planning. No point in getting the media, and the developers would be like meh, and slams the door on your face.
Besides, in the U of M, nobody in the Engineering department even remotely cares that it is mostly fobs and browns in electrical, whites in civil, and girls in Bio E.
Now, the engineering department is actively trying to get girls in, but getting them to go into electrical might prove a bit tough.
As for the video game industry, they just don’t care. Considering males gamers still outnumber females, a loss in female sale can be replaced by a male sale. Male, female, the sales are all the same. Unless something is done about it, and I don’t mean posting in forums and boycotting a game.
To Profane, at least have you considering starting a website talking about the gaming industry still not supporting female gamers? Spread the word. Go to forums of other games, including Infinty Wards. Go to every forum. What you are doing now isn’t going to make a dent on the gaming industry. Not only coinvince the gaming industry but the the hundred thousands of male gamers as well. Convincing the really important people, like gaming sites, the most popular game developer, and everything that is gaming really helps. Being a journalist, or working for a gaming site definitely helps. Being a developer yourself for sure definitely help, as it will set an example for other developers.
The important thing is, you must gather people. Not just friends. I mean, like crowds of people. If a developer finds out that crowds of people, like over 20 in each game, voice their concern, then maybe developers would do something about it.
Even though you don’t think that you can pull this all off, find someone who can. Charisma goes a long way.
How did you think I have to pay insane amounts of money for my tuition? Because there is just isn’t enough people that even cares about rallying to the legislative building.
The nation would like to know: @Profane, if terrorists were more like you, how would they be blowing up planes? 
I also think that just by adding female avatars, you’d get like a few more female gamers playing FPS games, but that won’t get the entire female gaming population to play.
The shooting and violence is what attracts the male population, just like electrical engineering.
Does anyone here know some who knows someone who knows someone who is a female in 3rd or 4th year electrical who is white?
Do you know of any female electrical engineers?
Like the gaming industry, electrical employers just don’t care what gender or race the employee is. In the U of M, it just so happens that girls and white people don’t go into electrical. Are they going to change the program to attract white people and girls? No.
Actually the gaming industry is like the field of engineering in U of M. Certain genres is certain branches of engineering. The FPS genre just happens to be electrical, because I feel that electrical attracts the least amount of females. Are they going to change the program just to get females to like it, but at the same time make all electrical engineers incompetent? Civil and Mechanical are already male dominated too. The BIO Es are the Wii fit people.
Is Splash Damage going to sacrifice something just to add female avatars that may please not a lot of people?
At least does anyone here know any females who builds their computer from scratch?
Things about this game that attract females are probably the same things that attract males. There is no need to put more into it than that. Perhaps, if the Strogg were really good cooks, my grandmother would play? Not really.
If @Profane is saying that a more customized avatar allows a gamer to identify more closely with his/her character, and thereby derive more enjoyment from it, then I have to agree. If that requires the developers to make female avatars do something unnatural in the game at the expense of game play, then I have to pass.
Some girls were playing etqw. It would be nice to see female models, but if it affects on multiplayer or male chars - then no)
Pfft. Why bother with a plane? I can think of dozens of better things to target. Easier, too. The hardest part of any plot is just getting the materials. I know my physics group tried to find someplace that sells saltpeter (for rocket fuel) and went bust, even though I live in a major metro area.
Besides, if you kill yourself with your own bomb, how stupid do you look once you get to Hell?
Unnatural??
Ahem! An FPS with RPG elements. And it also won’t get the entire male gaming pop to play either.
The shooting and violence is what attracts the male population, just like electrical engineering.
There is likely a leaning for young boys to be more physical in their disagreements and girls to be more socially/emotionally cruel, but it’s emphasized by culture. Both genders are taught not to hit, but a girl is also told it’s unnatural and unseemly to resort to physical violence. Either way, women like violence about as much as men. How else do you explain top-earning flicks that have significant amounts of violence, explosions, gunfights, etc?
The Dark Knight figures: As its enormous figures suggest, the picture played broadly. Warner Bros’ research indicated that 52 percent of the audience was male and that there was an even split between those over and under 25 years old. So 48% of women went to see a pretty violent film. And to top that, I’ve found two conflicting sources for the audience of Hostel. Some studio guy said it was 50% female, another source said 40%. Either way, that’s no small amount of chicks watching a very gory, very violent film. And you say women aren’t attracted to violence!
Man, if I had a dollar for every time I wanted to do something violent, I’d be a rich woman.
Nevermind that if we used your argument, then women are, by their nature, better suited to diplomacy, government policy, etc. Which means, gtfo out of the Senate, boys. You’re clearly biologically unsuited for tasks requiring higher socialization skills and a sense of cooperation between factions for the betterment of all.
Does anyone here know some who knows someone who knows someone who is a female in 3rd or 4th year electrical who is white?
Do you know of any female electrical engineers?
Like the gaming industry, electrical employers just don’t care what gender or race the employee is. In the U of M, it just so happens that girls and white people don’t go into electrical. Are they going to change the program to attract white people and girls? No.
Actually the gaming industry is like the field of engineering in U of M. Certain genres is certain branches of engineering. The FPS genre just happens to be electrical, because I feel that electrical attracts the least amount of females. Are they going to change the program just to get females to like it, but at the same time make all electrical engineers incompetent? Civil and Mechanical are already male dominated too. The BIO Es are the Wii fit people.
Well, there’s some pretty hefty evidence about the tie between teachers and schools encouraging female students and how many of them go onto what are considered “male” fields such as engineering, IT, etc. And you also have too back on what were consider male careers 20-30 years ago that are now dominated by women. (Side note: every field that has had an equilization of male/female entrants has seen a loss in pay and degree of respect by potential future male entrants. It’s why biology and psychology are now thought of to be fields that are more female.) The more female “role models” young girls have, the more they’ll consider careers outside of what is currently the norm for women. Even math and science teachers who push their female students as much as their male students see a difference. I know when I was younger, the only thing that I saw as potential careers were nursing and teaching. I lived in a rural area until I was nearly 11, so that’s not surprising.
That said, not only do I know non-biology engineering students (specifically, computer hardware and software engineering), but I also know a female electrical engineer and a female computer hardware engineer. As in, currently working as. And I met all of them before I ever became interested in engineering. I only settled on mech engineering in April or so.
There may always be a tilt in various fields towards one gender or the other, but hardly the tilts we see today. Society is always at least half manufactured by our perceptions and beliefs. If we think engineering and physics are male-oriented career fields, so shall they be. (Off-topic: my physics prof is a chick, and probably 60%-70% of our on-campus science club-biology, chemistry, physics-is female. I do believe my physics class either had the same number or more females as males. The point being dual. Chicks can and do dig science, and individual examples of gendered behavior in society give no real statistical proof of gender behavior across the human species.)
Is Splash Damage going to sacrifice something just to add female avatars that may please not a lot of people?
At least does anyone here know any females who builds their computer from scratch?
That’s the point. You see it as a sacrifice of something you want, instead of something that should automatically be considered part of game customization. And that’s where I have a problem.
And yes, I built mine from scratch. I also know a few girls who have either built theirs from scratch, or repaired it themselves. Do you know any guys who taught themselves how to proofread manuscripts and then found a paying job doing it? What about guys who taught themselves how to sew and cook? No? Does that mean men can’t be great chefs or clothing designers? Or book editors? I suspect Gordon Ramsey would hit you for such blasphemy. XD
Pretty much why I prefer them in all cases, yeah I guess it’s too simple.
And we hit Nature vs Nurture, whoo!
But still, isn’t it enough that game companies are at least getting a step closer to getting female avatars in game, even though their games still don’t have them yet?
In this game, Splash Damage is considering it during the early stages, but decided against it in favor of more male customization.
In ETQW, Splash Damage never even brought up the topic of female avatars.
If not this game, for sure, Splash Damage will make female avatars in their next game without any excuse. ISN’T THAT RIGHT SPLASH DAMAGE?
Just be glad that Splash Damage even considered working with female avatars in the early stages, compared to some developers I know that don’t even touch the subject. So maybe in their next project they will sure add female avatars. But make sure to remind them before they even do the initial drawings and animations.
And the trick here is that if there isn’t enough people that even remotely cares about changing the gaming industry to add female avatars, then they aren’t going to do it.
I would love female avatars in the game, it adds to the diversity, but Splash Damage sees more people wanting more male customizations than having a female avatar. And it is one or the other, and that you can’t have both. So they chose the male customization more than female avatars.
The thing I’m trying to get here is that, you must get a lot more people to convince Splash Damage, at least more people than those who want more male customizations. In fact, I’m going to start up a new thread stating if people want female avatars or more customization for the already existing male avatars.
You seem to say that 0.00001% of the population or sample makes all the difference. But to convince someone, you need at least way more than that.
Because most people here are not like “games should have female avatars”, but rather “female avatars are a bonus in games”. With that mentality, Splash Damage sees no reason to add in female avatars for people who don’t remotely care about female avatars being in games, but rather having more customizations of male avatars, or gameplay features instead. ISN’T THAT RIGHT SPLASH DAMAGE?
This thread is now a flood thread, thx for sharing opinion about segregation.
“unnatural” in the context of an FPS shooter.
You’ll have to use your imagination on that one, @Profane.
Some folks just don’t know when to quit, AnthonyDa.
For those who want female avatars in games that bad.
Steps in which Female Avatars would even be considered:
In this case, no one told Splash Damage to make female avatars before they even started the project, and there just isn’t enough people who actually cares.
The gaming industry isn’t connected in any way. There is no FCC or CRTC and all that shenanigans or any unifying government thing for video games. Splash Damage and Infinity Ward have nothing to do with each other. Nintendo and Sega don’t have anything to do with each other. Each game developer have a right to omit something if they choose to. Only if they find that a lot of people want a certain thing, they will add it in. If you tell them to change something so close to release, then it’s like saying “you did it wrong, start over”. Developers hate that. Everybody hates doing things all over again. Waste of time and money.
And having female avatars in games that have customizable avatars isn’t mandatory. You know why there is a big fuss about women in sports and TV and movies? Because there are actually lots of women who care about these things. This includes viewers, actors, and athletes.
How many women here care that there aren’t female avatars in many games? How many of them actually will take a stand? Exactly. A few, and that isn’t enough.
Just think about fat people and rollercoasters. They don’t get to ride it because they are too fat. Are they going to make rollercoasters for fat people? I don’t see any fat person who actually cares enough to take a stand on the whole fat people can’t ride roller coasters matter.
As i said in your other thread, development is generally well underway before devs even announce the game they’re working on… this mantra would more work on potential sequels rather than new, unannounced IP’s. SD have seen how much players want female models in Brink, so i can assume this will be very carefully considered if we get a Brink 2.