Recon Feedback - v.17963

[Breo]

The recon shouldnt be limited by the game, it should be limited by skill. If you have the capability to be up close and hit a scoped headshot against a strafing target with only one shot (before you get gunned down), then power to you i say. Its a natural backline class, however high skill mastery of the class and weapons should open up additional doors to the player. Its never good to design a class that prohibits a particular playstyle, by all means discourage but skill should enable variance and extended viability.

Agreed as long as it not easy to use the sniper at close range it’s fine! However some classes are actually limited by their class (which is a good thing) or weapon to be more specific like the shotgun you won’t use that for a long range.

[warbie]

The recon shouldnt be limited by the game, it should be limited by skill. If you have the capability to be up close and hit a scoped headshot against a strafing target with only one shot (before you get gunned down), then power to you i say. Its a natural backline class, however high skill mastery of the class and weapons should open up additional doors to the player. Its never good to design a class that prohibits a particular playstyle, by all means discourage but skill should enable variance and extended viability.

I hear that.

[DJScream]

Good changes indeed but not quite there yet.

One of the things ETQW actually did right was the GDF sniper. It was pretty fun when you could strafe and shoot accurately. Damage was also balanced if I remember correctly. One shot kills with HS and two shot kills with body shots. In DB sniper does too much body damage (like pretty much every gun in game). It should be about 55-60% hp per body shot at the moment. In future it might need more balancing if we actually get guns that hit where we aim.

The recon also suffers a lot from the small hit boxes and the weird hit reg/lag/something because it feels like I have to predict my shots if the enemy is strafing. Smoke trail seems to hit the target but actually didn’t.

[Rex]

It should be about 55-60% hp per body shot at the moment.

Yep, that’s what we also said at our irc brainstorm discussion. Body hit should be around 50-60% dependent on range, that you need 2 body shots to kill.

[Protekt1]

What if something like standing perfectly still allowed you to noscope accurately up to 10ft or so. I personally see stances being a decent means of making the noscope more reliable by making your self less and less mobile to earn better accuracy.

If they do that I hope they reduce sniper body shot damage big time. If sniper already does 85% damage, its kinda high as is. I assume its that high because weapons don’t appear to have much damage drop off over range (an aspect I like tbh).

[Protekt1]

Regarding damage by sniper rifle…

I think they should do 3 shots to legs (45% hp per shot), 2 shots to upper body (60% hp per shot), 1 shot to head (100% hp + gibbed). The reason I don’t include arms as a 3 shot body part is because bullets would probably be randomly blocked by arms naturally. This way the sniper needs to be wary of guys who time a bunny hop perfectly when a shot is fired and they need to aim in the upper area for bodyshots (penalizing poor aim). IDC if they even reduce damage done to legs slightly for all weapons.

Also, playing a recon and scoring a headshot should gib the target. I think its necessary because recons usually cannot gib the target they dropped and should be rewarded for a good shot. Maybe this could be true for every weapon but I’d suggest requiring that a certain threshold of overall damage occur to the head for it to autogib.

[Dthy]

[QUOTE=Protekt1;439979]Regarding damage by sniper rifle…

I think they should do 3 shots to legs (45% hp per shot), 2 shots to upper body (60% hp per shot), 1 shot to head (100% hp + gibbed).[/Quote]

Sounds nice to me.

The reason I don’t include arms as a 3 shot body part is because bullets would probably be randomly blocked by arms naturally. This way the sniper needs to be wary of guys who time a bunny hop perfectly when a shot is fired and they need to aim in the upper area for bodyshots (penalizing poor aim). IDC if they even reduce damage done to legs slightly for all weapons.

I’m guessing you just missed it, but you haven’t given any damage for arm shots? Anyway I see this as silly as I just have these images of teams dancing too objectives.

Also, playing a recon and scoring a headshot should gib the target. I think its necessary because recons usually cannot gib the target they dropped and should be rewarded for a good shot.

I agree with auto gib on headshot (not if it’s too far though), but gibbing a target isn’t that difficult (one or two shots to gib) considering that the sniper has a high RoF (for a sniper)

Maybe this could be true for every weapon but I’d suggest requiring that a certain threshold of overall damage occur to the head for it to autogib.

I don’t think any other weapon would have the power to do this in a single shot, and it would be a bit silly with someone who consistently gets headshots.

[jopjop]

I made a short video “the frustration vassili”. There are illustrations of the things that frustrate me the most when playing. These represent a small part of the action that happens. But then again the shots that would be most satisfying (for me). I took the recording on one session so this stuff happens a lot but represent a small portion of a whole.
The game makes me rage. Which is a good thing: It makes me wan’t go back to bang my head to the wall rather than leave bored. Still hope these would be adressed,

In the short clip:
There are some quickscope shots and after the action short images that illustrate the shot more closely.

There is a situation that shows what I think djscream meant by “the weird hit reg/lag/something because it feels like I have to predict my shots if the enemy is strafing.” For me it feels that the guys “slip” from the crosshair the instant I fire.

Hitreg issue with soldier. I can’t remember other characters getting no hitreg at all from so clear hit. There happens weird stuff at the edges of character models but haven’t recorded any yet.

Give me a shout if the link is dead or goes dead or what ever.

Also the video is meant to be funny don’t take it as toxic aaaand don’t share the link outside this forum plskthx

[INF3RN0]

Maybe the sniper rifle shouldn’t allow you to shoot until fully scoped? I usually wait those .2 seconds before shooting if trying to quick scope at close range. It does feel like there’s a slight delay between clicking your mouse button and the bullet exiting the barrel though- but I think that’s caused by the time between taking consecutive shots.

[jopjop]

Maybe the sniper rifle shouldn’t allow you to shoot until fully scoped? I usually wait those .2 seconds before shooting if trying to quick scope at close range. It does feel like there’s a slight delay between clicking your mouse button and the bullet exiting the barrel though- but I think that’s caused by the time between taking consecutive shots.

Yep at the moment it works like you said. My point of view: I’m usually receiving hits and knock back before this “fully scoped” and after knock back I’m no longer responsible how my crosshair moves although I lets me suggest the general direction. I understand that people may think that this wait until fully scoped is a good feature since “wtf how” shots don’t happen except by luck but just that takes so much away from me in sniping. This is my only weapon against better aimers and players since my tracking is mediocre at best.

[RasteRayzeR]

I agree too with the original post, but what I would ask before any other changes is that there are recon-only objectives in the game, because right now the only way for the recon to help is by providing cover. As I said in two other posts, the recon should be able to :

• Hack safes containing ammo drops for his team
• Hack radio beacons to hear the communications in the other team (x has constructed barricade y, etc.)

[INF3RN0]

Yep at the moment it works like you said. My point of view: I’m usually receiving hits and knock back before this “fully scoped” and after knock back I’m no longer responsible how my crosshair moves although I lets me suggest the general direction. I understand that people may think that this wait until fully scoped is a good feature since “wtf how” shots don’t happen except by luck but just that takes so much away from me in sniping. This is my only weapon against better aimers and players since my tracking is mediocre at best.

Another idea is how some of the sniping worked in ET. You can hipfire your “sniper” like a bolt rifle pretty accurately with say 3body shots and 2 headshots. However when your scoped its 2 body shots 1 headshot. To be honest I think it made the sniper much more versatile in terms of how it was able to be used- plus the covert could then be more motivated to not camp at a distance. Also the whole delay to accuracy when quickscoping would no longer be an issue and you would avoid the whole quickscoping issue for both sides of that argument.

[Apoc]

[QUOTE=jopjop;440113]I made a short video “the frustration vassili”. There are illustrations of the things that frustrate me the most when playing. These represent a small part of the action that happens. But then again the shots that would be most satisfying (for me). I took the recording on one session so this stuff happens a lot but represent a small portion of a whole.
The game makes me rage. Which is a good thing: It makes me wan’t go back to bang my head to the wall rather than leave bored. Still hope these would be adressed,

In the short clip:
There are some quickscope shots and after the action short images that illustrate the shot more closely.

There is a situation that shows what I think djscream meant by “the weird hit reg/lag/something because it feels like I have to predict my shots if the enemy is strafing.” For me it feels that the guys “slip” from the crosshair the instant I fire.

Hitreg issue with soldier. I can’t remember other characters getting no hitreg at all from so clear hit. There happens weird stuff at the edges of character models but haven’t recorded any yet.

Give me a shout if the link is dead or goes dead or what ever.[/QUOTE]

Hey Jopjop.

I noticed this bug in december, http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33858-Sniper-Scope-bug also mentioned here http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33857-Sniping
My post got ignored but i think it really needs addressing. Its a real issue, most people pressume they are just missing, since you have to go offline and shoot a wall to confirm it. Basically scoped accuracy is only given when the scope has finished its animation and had a tiny delay. Which isnt very helpful when you see someone and dont have the composure to count to 0.5 or 0.75 or whatever it is before firing. Its a fraction of a second, but that doesnt make it a small issue. If its a cause for missing when the sniper was actually on target then it is a big issue. Very unintuitive.

[jopjop]

[QUOTE=Apoc;440157]Hey Jopjop.

I noticed this bug in december, http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33858-Sniper-Scope-bug also mentioned here http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/33857-Sniping
My post got ignored but i think it really needs addressing. Its a real issue, most people pressume they are just missing, since you have to go offline and shoot a wall to confirm it. Basically scoped accuracy is only given when the scope has finished its animation and had a tiny delay. Which isnt very helpful when you see someone and dont have the composure to count to 0.5 or 0.75 or whatever it is before firing. Its a fraction of a second, but that doesnt make it a small issue. If its a cause for missing when the sniper was actually on target then it is a big issue. Very unintuitive.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I agree. Would be cool if someone at SD would say if it’s deliberately there or just a causality from something else (like scoping animation) and some plans what they are thinking to do about it if anything… or if they already have mentioned this: pls someone paste or link.

[Mustang]

The delay is intentional to prevent quick scoping.

What you are doing IS quick scoping, and it’s obviously stopping you doing that effectively, so it’s working.

Also, nice cat.

[jopjop]

[QUOTE=Mustang;440181]The delay is intentional to prevent quick scoping.

What you are doing IS quick scoping, and it’s obviously stopping you doing that effectively, so it’s working.

Also, nice cat.[/QUOTE]

Yeah she has quite magnificent whisker pads.


Mutkis in the car going to countryside

If what you said is true… Q_Q
Vassilis sniper rifle feels very redundant then. Not only it limits the sniping to long range it looses to other guns in long range very often. Dunno how they are planning to reduce bullet creep but still I don’t think this will help vassili. Even if the damage falloff is bumped up the knock back is still there. I could live with this since it takes some skill to snipe-> run to cover and repeat meaning that you would be hopefully the first one to shoot. But with most of these maps there aren’t many places to do that very well since someone is always coming up behind you… and then you pull out your silenced joke against players like kordin or samu or who ever who can aim.
Atm I’m seeing many people just running around with the shotty and getting kills… reaally hard to hit those girls with sniper… I’m thinking “why not vassili” :<
ALSO: Yes I know I was quickscoping and yes I know it’s not working.

[Apoc]

[QUOTE=Mustang;440181]The delay is intentional to prevent quick scoping.

What you are doing IS quick scoping, and it’s obviously stopping you doing that effectively, so it’s working.

Also, nice cat.[/QUOTE]

Said with the conviction of a developer. Not sure where you got this confidence in your answer, but interested to find out. But to quote what Verticae said in the other thread;

If it’s a feature, the scope shouldn’t be fully visible until the ‘scoped’ spread kicks in. Right now, effectively, the visual feedback is different from the actual mechanics.

Which is why it is a bug, misleading visual feedback is not something any game devs i know aim to put into games…
If it is a barrier to quickscoping then thats ok, as long as we get some sort of feedback or there is a “sign” for when we can expect an accurate shot. Atm its just “wait until scoped animation has ended fully, then wait a tiny bit more”, which isnt very viable when someone pops out round a corner and you scope, see the enemies head between the scope crosshair and shoot, only to realise the game wasnt ready for that and has such rewarded you perfect twitch shot with a diversion to the nearest lampost.

[Smooth]

We still have several tasks in the list to improve scoping mechanics. One of them is to only have the scope overlay appear when ‘ready’ if that makes sense.

[Apoc]

We still have several tasks in the list to improve scoping mechanics. One of them is to only have the scope overlay appear when ‘ready’ if that makes sense.

Great, yea that makes sense, its exactly what was being discussed as the issue, good to hear its being looked into

[jopjop]

looking forward how it’s going come out and much thanks for the info :>

EDIT: I unshared the video from my previous post since I saw it served its purpose and I got some answers. kthxb