Come on, man, that was an alpha (thank you above post). Even if there is health regen there is no telling if it is for testing something specific or if it will be in the final game at all. That leak was a disservice to the reporting and testing process given that the masses these games claim to cater to have little clue what pre release builds are meant to accomplish (not lumping thundermuffin in that category).
Rahdo's words - what happened here?
Azev2000
(Azev2000)
#482
[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;359540]Have you seen the leaked footage of BF3 that Kotaku posted? It wasn’t a real PC BF game at all. There wasn’t even a health bar on the HUD and there was actually full health regen like CoD. There’s not even a commander mode or SDK.
Look near the end of video #2 at about 1:30ish and you’ll start to see blood splatters all over the screen with no health bar on the HUD. That’s not a PC game either.
The no forward spawns thing is kind of a baffling deal, because it isn’t like having the offense spawn closer would unbalance this game. The defense already spawns on top of every obj.[/QUOTE]
Play hardcore mode and your health regen problem is solved.
Thundermuffin
(Thundermuffin)
#483
Does that change the fact they said no SDK and no commander mode? It doesn’t change that at all; they’ve came out and said the game doesn’t have that. Do you really believe they’re going to revamp the health system after it “worked” in Bad Company 2? Come on, man, see the signs that BF3 is just as much a PC failure as BRINK. It will sell tons and people will play it, but it won’t live up to the legacy of 1942 or BF2 at all, nor will it even begin to topple CS, CoD, or TF2. It may get thousands of people on at peak hours, but so does that Football Manager game on Steam.
I didn’t mention any of the gameplay elements (Spread, gunplay, etc., etc.,) in that video besides the health regen. Guns, spread, etc., can and will change all throughout development, but have you ever seen a AAA game go from having health regen (notice how the effects are different from BC2, therefore they’ve been made for this game and not just part of the engine) to having a health bar? I can’t think of any game that’s done so, at least this generation and especially not a BF game even though people asked for it in BC2.
Hey, look at the bright side, at least there’s actually real PC footage with a mouse and keyboard out there on the internet. I can think of another game that still hasn’t posted any footage of a PC using a mouse and keyboard. 
It isn’t like the regen is even testing anything, they’ve shown the game like that before. The SP gameplay videos they’ve shown don’t have the health bar either, but it has the blood splatters and health regen.
Hardcore doesn’t solve the problem at all; it may eliminate health regen, but makes the game reward campy play styles even more because the bullet damage is at a level that makes the game less fun than if it just had a health bar.
EDIT: Before someone comes back and says “well it’s an alpha hud,” think about it. They would at least have a number on the HUD somewhere that says the number of hit points you have left and no where is there a spot that displays that number (unless they magically removed it from that video or it blends in so well with all those maps that it’s impossible to see). They can’t be that stupid as to not put that somewhere so they can at least see if it displays accurately and then later style it like the rest of the hud.
You can even look at BRINK’s HUD and even though the style of it changes, the alpha footage from expos still had every vital piece of information (health, ammo and supplies) displayed on the HUD from the first gameplay video.
morguen87
(morguen87)
#484
[QUOTE=SinDonor;359681]The bugs could have been found on SD’s side and they re-submitted. Better to be late and bug free than playing a buggy mess right now.
MS/Sony doesn’t check for gameplay bugs, mostly for standards they set for nomenclature/legalese/terminology and possibly memory leaks or proper HDD usage, etc.
If Rahdo’s been talking about gameplay bugs, chances are they were found by the SD team, UNLESS the cert folks at MS/Sony ran into a reproducible crash.[/QUOTE]
Eh, you could be right, I just assumed otherwise by the fact that they seem frustrated it’s still in submission.
Either way, reading this forum and reading excuses for the game just frustrates me and I’m not helping anybody with a negative attitude. I’m gonna take a long break and go buy MK9 in a few mins to keep me busy 
I’ll chalk this game up as a loss, much easier than clinging to hope on something that’s already been delayed a few times and I have no faith in the developer anyway.
Before anyone accuses me of it, it’s not that Brink didn’t live up to my expectations or that I don’t understand the gameplay. It’s just that Brink isn’t a very good game.
Joe999
(Joe999)
#485
hey, everyone knows that what dice considers retail is actual beta. hence what they call alpha is beta for everyone. and i doubt that they can go from alpha to retail within 3 months. release date is october …
Joe999
(Joe999)
#486
since you’ve been answering a lot of questions, i’d really be interested in this particular issue about sound design:
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27201
especially why this isn’t optional. thanks in advance!
XVX
(-XVX-)
#488
Rahdo, thanks again for making comments. I know I’m critical, but that’s just because SD has made my two most favorite games ever in W:ET and ET:QW, games I still play.
I believe SD can meet it’s goal of appealing to a wider audience without so many sacrifices in gameplay. The two major issues seem to be, differing skill levels, which can turn off the unskilled and complexity.
I believe SD can make a much better match making system than in Brink. For starters, some option for servers to indicate what skill level they want their server to be at. Say, highly skilled, skilled, I can’t hit the broad side of a barn, stuff like that. I don’t think anyone in the PC or console community would be against having such distinctions. Perhaps there is some worry on SD’s part that this will divide their audience, but I think that is neccesary when you are trying to appeal to a wider audience. The more people you cater too, the less you can treat everyone the same. There will always be that skilled player that wants to goto noob servers and get his jollies owning, but that can easily be handled with kicks or bans. This will also allow lower skilled players that want to step up their game, to know where to go…“Hey, lemme check out this highly skilled server”…and then they won’t be so frustrated if they get owned.
These are options, more choices the consumer can make to increase the prospects of having an enjoyable experience. And if they want to play with noobs, they have that option, if they want to play higher skilled players, they have that option.
My biggest gripe with Brink is that it holds my hand the entire time and never lets go. I understand, W:ET and ET:QW can be complicated games and SD felt the need to hold the consumers hand through these complexities, but I also feel at some point, you need to let go and let the child roam the world freely and hope your teachings lead to good experiences.
Brink does make some attempt with the tutorial type sections in helping guide the player and I think SD should expand upon this. I’m not looking for W:ET 2 or ET:QW 2, I want another game with that depth, complexity, challenge, fun, so forgive me when I use ET:QW as a reference.
What W:ET and ET:QW lacked was hand holding. I remember the first couple times I played the railgun map in W:ET and had no idea what was going on and with the fast action combat, it was difficult to make time to understand what was happening. What would have been great with ET:QW would have been some tutorial, or single player campaign that first has you play, say as a Field Ops.
OK, let’s plant our artillery piece here. Now let’s go over here and drop some artillery on this choke point and stop the enemy. Oh noes, they have a Cyclops now. Let’s go back and plant a rocket artillery piece and rain down some death on the Cyclops now. And while we’re waiting, let’s throw out an airstrike to see if we can get some damage in. Uh oh, our rocket piece doesn’t seem to be working, it looks like someone damaged it. Let’s try to get an engineer to repair it, or maybe try to find a better location that hides it better. Great, we did that, but now our rockets aren’t getting through because of an anti-artillery interception. Let’s try to get a teammate with a rocket launcher, dynamite to damage it, or perhaps a vehicle guy to get some hits in on it, or maybe that covert ops over there will go and disable it, so we can rain down our death again.
Do this for each class. Explain and hold their hand through the many things that can happen and be done, so new players don’t have to figure that all out during the heat of combat, which makes it much more difficult.
I agree with SD’s premise (I’m assuming) that these complexities turned off the “wider audience”, but I think that is because it was too difficult to figure out what needed to be done during actual combat gameplay online, NOT that is was too difficult in general. I bet many players that never gave ET:QW enough time to learn it’s depth would be excited, pumped up, wanting to go check out these things they didn’t understand before. I think that’s where SD missed the boat. That SD thought the game, in general, was too complex for the wider audience, when I’m thinking, the wider audience would appreciate that complexity, if given the proper environment to learn it in.
Thanks for reading,
XVX
XVX
(-XVX-)
#490
hehe
http://et.splatterladder.com/?mod=playerinfo&idx=748351
Well, it has been about 5 months for W:ET. While W:ET has superior gun mechanics, I overall like ET:QW better. Even though I think Frizlefry is a total douche bag, I still have a good time on sereNADE’s server for ET:QW, which I played a couple weeks ago. I recently got Killer Floor though and have been having fun shooting zombies.
:stroggbanana:
DarkangelUK
(DarkangelUK)
#491
Doesn’t matter what you say, believe, theorise or other… it’s still alpha and things can change between alpha and release. Am I saying they will? No, but it’s in a stage where change is possible and things are missing, including from the HUD. Brink has recharging health AND health bars, it’s not a far stretch of the imagination that there could be both. ‘Wait and see’ is all I’m saying, and never take alpha info as final.
I’m also well aware of the lack of SDK release, I even made a thread about it a while ago in the off-topic section.
Apples
(Apples)
#492
[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;359752]Doesn’t matter what you say, believe, theorise or other… it’s still alpha and things can change between alpha and release. Am I saying they will? No, but it’s in a stage where change is possible and things are missing, including from the HUD. Brink has recharging health AND health bars, it’s not a far stretch of the imagination that there could be both. ‘Wait and see’ is all I’m saying, and never take alpha info as final.
I’m also well aware of the lack of SDK release, I even made a thread about it a while ago in the off-topic section.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me a certain time when the brink slow movement was also alpha… oh wai…
Game wont change, it’s being purposefully blind not agreeing with that!
Peace
DarkangelUK
(DarkangelUK)
#493
[QUOTE=Apples;359781]Reminds me a certain time when the brink slow movement was also alpha… oh wai…
Game wont change, it’s being purposefully blind not agreeing with that!
Peace[/QUOTE]
And I said the same then as I do now… wait and see! Anyway I was right, changing to fov 110 does make it look faster than a video of someone walking around at fov 70
Kinjal
(Kinjal)
#494
[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;359540]Have you seen the leaked footage of BF3 that Kotaku posted? It wasn’t a real PC BF game at all. There wasn’t even a health bar on the HUD and there was actually full health regen like CoD. There’s not even a commander mode or SDK.
Look near the end of video #2 at about 1:30ish and you’ll start to see blood splatters all over the screen with no health bar on the HUD. That’s not a PC game either.
The no forward spawns thing is kind of a baffling deal, because it isn’t like having the offense spawn closer would unbalance this game. The defense already spawns on top of every obj.[/QUOTE]
down-right corner , do u see 100%? it is your health.
BTW there is a self-kill button from the start, and the game was demonstrated on pc (E3) with kb/m, so i think it is a PC game.
dazman76
(dazman76)
#495
It’s an awesome idea V, but sadly a very large technical and design challenge That’s because the game itself is a “simulation” - the actors are dropped into it, and everything that happens from that point is not pre-ordained before it begins. However, the hand-holding exercises ARE pre-ordained, and indeed scripted. This means you either need to (1) script absolutely everything that happens during the tutorial and strongly control what the player can actually do, or (2) attempt to run your pre-scripted tutotial in amongst a live simulation that could go anywhere.
Achieving either one of these, or indeed some hybrid in between if possible, is pretty bloody difficult Most devs would take approach (1) - better to restrict the player to very specific movement/map areas/weapons/actions, and ensure the tutorial actually works and completes - than to have a simulation running where the player (and enemies) can do what they like, and ultimately screw up the tutorial completely and leave the player bewildered.
Thundermuffin
(Thundermuffin)
#496
[QUOTE=Kinjal;359784]down-right corner , do u see 100%? it is your health.
BTW there is a self-kill button from the start, and the game was demonstrated on pc (E3) with kb/m, so i think it is a PC game.[/QUOTE]
Oh, wow, that blends into the map extremely bad on certain parts of the video.
Anyways, the point still stands that it has crappy consolized health regen even though this is supposedly built for the PC crowd first and everyone is reigning it as the game that will save PC gaming (doesn’t that sound familiar??). It kind of amazes me, though, how many people call 1 feature a “PC game.” A kill button, which extremely nice, doesn’t make this game a real sequel to BF2; a BF2 sequel should have had a commander mode, SDK for custom maps and mods, vsays, and all of this stuff that BC2 didn’t have and they have either said isn’t going to be in BF3 or they haven’t shown it off even though it would prove to people like me that maybe this is a PC game. Maybe I’m just way out of touch and PC BF players want health regen, no SDK, no commander mode, and, if BC2’s “big” maps are anything to go by, tiny maps compared to BF2? I wasn’t even wowed by the destruction after I realized it always falls the same way when buildings collapse. It kind of took away the awe factor when I couldn’t ever get the building to actually fall across a road or onto another building.
BRINK is still slow as heck and it never speeds up to a reasonable level even when sprinting; FOV 110 doen’t help the problem at all, at least for me, as everything gets too little and you still feel like you’re being restrained so much because of limitations that SD put into place to stop people from jumping around. That feeling of restraint actually feels worse at higher FOV; I guess it’s just because you see more of your arms/guns go up and down really quickly.
zenstar
(zenstar)
#497
Yes.
You obviously missed the logical connection I was making. I was being completely objective in pointing out the fact that you seem to have misunderstood what Exe was saying.
[QUOTE=neg;359508]
are you crazy? im talking about the PC ATI issues NOT ABOUT THE DLC
every single post in the tehcnical support forums about ATI performance issues gets ignored like its infected with the plague, no information released from Splashdamage regarding fixes, one update from ATI saying the game runs fine on ATI in crossfire scenarios which is completely useless information for anyone with the issue[/QUOTE]
The ATI issues are beyond their control because they are issues with the ATI drivers. SD cannot badmouth ATI and can’t give you an answer because it’s ATI’s problem.
Exe can talk to the entire office. The ATI issues are not under their control and as such they can’t comment on them. If you have an issue with how terrible the ATI drivers are (here’s a hint: it’s not just Brink having issues with them) then take it up with ATI. Better yet: buy an Nvidia.
sereNADE
(sereNADE)
#498
The last thing I want to save PC gaming is yet another first person shooter in the Battlefield series. Indies and sub-AAA published titles are what’s revitalizing every platform. Come on, Rahdo, get the gang together and set out on the iphone/ipad!
SockDog
(SockDog)
#499
If I can add something that pertinent to both the Brink and BF3 discussion.
It’s not a matter of which platform takes the lead, if a game is being developed for three platforms any decisions being made are going to be weighed against all three platforms. There are just some core gameplay mechanics that have to be compromised one way or the other. The obvious example is regen health, which is a needed mechanic for the less agile console games and something that is impossible to simply replace with a health bar and it would cause massive balancing issues.
It would be nice (read: in my naive experience) if the PC version of a game was budgeted separately to that of the consoles. They could share assets (isn’t this meant to be most of the cost these days?) but the design and most of the code should be totally separate.
Of course the other way around it is they just support KB+M on consoles and then they don’t need to make 101 dick moves to shoe horn the game on there in some fudged capacity. Or at least it would give more weight to the KB+M design stream.
Sorry, ramble over.
Humate
(Humate)
#500
It’s not a matter of which platform takes the lead, if a game is being developed for three platforms any decisions being made are going to be weighed against all three platforms
Thats exactly right sockdog.
I said a long time ago on here, that a lot of people confuse the term of “console port” to mean gameplay parity across all platforms. When the decisions are weighted towards the limitations of the console, its always going to feel like a console game played on a PC - regardless of the added PC features.