If Sniper rifles were reduced to 40% they couldn’t kill with body-shots in the time it takes anything else to empty an entire clip. Requiring 3 BS for a kill from a bolt-action rifle is just nuts. As Strych said, they’d be worthless, and only an idiot or a masochist would use them.
Damage has to remain above 50% for them to remain even remotely viable. Exactly where you put it between 51% and 99% however is another matter. 
[QUOTE=Kendle;469834]If Sniper rifles were reduced to 40% they couldn’t kill with body-shots in the time it takes anything else to empty an entire clip. Requiring 3 BS for a kill from a bolt-action rifle is just nuts. As Strych said, they’d be worthless, and only an idiot or a masochist would use them.
Damage has to remain above 50% for them to remain even remotely viable. Exactly where you put it between 51% and 99% however is another matter. :)[/QUOTE]
This makes more sense (I think I kind of convinced myself at the end of my previous post in a roundabout way, i.e. 3 shots too much).
I hate when stats like this thrown in our faces!
I heard a story not that long ago about troops on the ground in Afghanistan (we are the troops) that came under fire and they were relaying all the information back to command. The Troops were giving command enemy location, counts, troop movements and all other information. All this time Command was looking at charts, stats and maps. Command decided NOT to send in air support and listen to the troops on the ground! A lot of troops lost their lives because command did not listen!
You can draw your own conclusion to this story but if SD is just going to sit back and only look at charts and stats then this game is in trouble.
I dont have to say it again but I will most people here have ET/RTCW/QW experiences. Medic numbers should be higher. A competitive team based shooter starts with medics.
VENT OUT— BUT Here’s my idea for a Sniper -->
Suggestion for Sniper
Headshot = 100% Life = Kill
Chest, neck Only!= 50%-55%-60% Life
Arms and Legs and toes and fingers = 35% Life
Very High Skill Ceiling for Sniper with those numbers and a good sniper would almost be a must because they should get a sweet perk to stay alive or a none op perk to line up and get that HS kill.
Maybe a Perk that allows sniper bullets to do 10% more damage to get to 60% chest. How about a sniper bullet that can Stun/Flash/Blind? Slow Bleed? Slow Movement? Increase Damage Taken? Reduce Body Armor? OR How about a FF sniper that can grant Friendly’s HP, reduced spread or movement speed if you shoot them? Dont think of it as a bullet but a shot of drugs to heal or something fired from the sniper in the back to support front line ppl.
Edit: I made my sniper rant its own thread!
[QUOTE=spookify;469842]I hate when stats like this thrown in our faces!
I heard a story not that long ago about troops on the ground in Afghanistan (we are the troops) that came under fire and they were relaying all the information back to command. The Troops were giving command enemy location, counts, troop movements and all other information. All this time Command was looking at charts, stats and maps. Command decided NOT to send in air support and listen to the troops on the ground! A lot of troops lost their lives because command did not listen!
You can draw your own conclusion to this story but if SD is just going to sit back and only look at charts and stats then this game is in trouble.
[/quote]
You have the abilty to read?
[QUOTE=Anti;469819]
Lot of complaints being shared here that to me don’t reflect what it feels like when I play the game, what I see when I watch others play the game, what I hear from other players or what I see in the data.[/quote]
They’re not merely relying on statistics. They play their own game. Sometimes stats can be misleading but in this case I don’t feel that’s he case personally.
[QUOTE=Seiniyta;469845]You have the abilty to read?
They’re not merely relying on statistics. They play their own game. Sometimes stats can be misleading but in this case I don’t feel that’s he case personally.[/QUOTE]
I don’t actually read the forums but I have the ability.
[QUOTE=spookify;469842]I hate when stats like this thrown in our faces!
I heard a story not that long ago about troops on the ground in Afghanistan (we are the troops) that came under fire and they were relaying all the information back to command. The Troops were giving command enemy location, counts, troop movements and all other information. All this time Command was looking at charts, stats and maps. Command decided NOT to send in air support and listen to the troops on the ground! A lot of troops lost their lives because command did not listen!
You can draw your own conclusion to this story but if SD is just going to sit back and only look at charts and stats then this game is in trouble.
I dont have to say it again but I will most people here have ET/RTCW/QW experiences. Medic numbers should be higher. A competitive team based shooter starts with medics.
VENT OUT— BUT Here’s my idea for a Sniper -->
Suggestion for Sniper
Headshot = 100% Life = Kill
Chest, neck Only!= 50%-55%-60% Life
Arms and Legs and toes and fingers = 35% Life
Very High Skill Ceiling for Sniper with those numbers and a good sniper would almost be a must because they should get a sweet perk to stay alive or a none op perk to line up and get that HS kill.
Maybe a Perk that allows sniper bullets to do 10% more damage to get to 60% chest. How about a sniper bullet that can Stun/Flash/Blind? Slow Bleed? Slow Movement? Increase Damage Taken? Reduce Body Armor? OR How about a FF sniper that can grant Friendly’s HP, reduced spread or movement speed if you shoot them? Dont think of it as a bullet but a shot of drugs to heal or something fired from the sniper in the back to support front line ppl.
Edit: I made my sniper rant its own thread![/QUOTE]
I started my post by specifically saying the feedback does not match with our own experience playing the game, observing matches and other user’s feedback as well as the stats. We never balance anything on stats alone, let alone the type of high level stats I just showed you.
We simply use the data to help us measure and assess our own opinions and the feedback of the alpha testers, because it helps us take anecdotal evidence and opinions and actually measure them in a useful way. Good game balance isn’t about a single source of feedback above all others, it’s about building a picture from the whole, that includes stats, pub player feedback, pro player feedback, observation, playing and so on.
47% of the time people play a default “character”. I wonder how many of the alpha testers are just lazy and never switch a character in the barracks (I for example used to be like this in other games, bf3 as example, I never changed the load outs).
Maybe you should shuffle the characters in the barracks ( it would make the echo data more valuable).
I just tested some weapons.
The semi auto-sniper is just ridiculously overpowered. Too much damage with a too high rate of fire.
The other snipers need the first hit, then you can easily finish them off with handgun.
60 bodyshot dmg is the absolute maximum for bolt action.
Legs and Arms maybe 45, but below 50.
The nader takes a bit of practise, but will be VERY powerful in the right hands with 75 Damage.
In Quake my Projectile weapons (Nades, Plasma, and worst, my Rockets) are horrible.
But still i am able to do direct body hits and count alot of damage.
50 damage max. please.
Or remove the direct contact explode and make the timer a bit longer.
Then the shotguns. In close range they are devastating 1-2 shot weapons.
The maps have too small areas for these kind of weapons. Camping behind a door is too easy.
Nader, Shotguns and Sniper were just tested in TDM, where players could run backwards and don´t have to do an objective.
Avoiding shots was really easy for them. Still i was able to hunt them down.
Most weapons are stronger than the medic gun, but in TDM you can hide and recover.
In obj. based modes you have to push, rendering most of the self-healing useless.
[QUOTE=Ruben0s;469848]47% of the time people play a default “character”. I wonder how many of the alpha testers are just lazy and never switch a character in the barracks (I for example use to be like this in other games, bf3 as example, I never changed the load outs).
Maybe you should shuffle the characters in the barracks, I’m curious to know how the charts will change.[/QUOTE]
When we get the main menu into the game there won’t be a ‘default’ set anymore, you’ll be agreeing to your set for the match before you enter so that should remove this bias.
That said it’s hard to believe it’s 47% from not selecting right now as the default set are the most W:ET like characters we have, as well as feedback from the recent survey we gave you guys also telling us that they are some of the most popular in your experience. We definitely do need a more accurate measure though, as you said.
[QUOTE=Anti;469851]When we get the main menu into the game there won’t be a ‘default’ set anymore, you’ll be agreeing to your set for the match before you enter so that should remove this bias.
That said it’s hard to believe it’s 47% from not selecting right now as the default set are the most W:ET like characters we have, as well as feedback from the recent survey we gave you guys also telling us that they are some of the most popular in your experience. We definitely do need a more accurate measure though, as you said.[/QUOTE]
Have these stats been normalized per player? Or does a single player - playing for hours medic - throw the stats off?
I have some normalized distributions and the like, yes, although I don’t have a recent one for character usage so what I posted above isn’t that valuable as it is pure time played.
As an example though here is a distribution of weapon accuracy across the whole population of players for two guns. Set 1 in red is the hip fired SMG 01, set 2 in blue is the hip fired Assault Rifle 01. These stats are from a few months ago now, recorded over a period of a couple of weeks.
[QUOTE=OwNLY;469849]I just tested some weapons.
The semi auto-sniper is just ridiculously overpowered. Too much damage with a too high rate of fire.
The other snipers need the first hit, then you can easily finish them off with handgun.
60 bodyshot dmg is the absolute maximum for bolt action.
Legs and Arms maybe 45, but below 50.
The nader takes a bit of practise, but will be VERY powerful in the right hands with 75 Damage.
In Quake my Projectile weapons (Nades, Plasma, and worst, my Rockets) are horrible.
But still i am able to do direct body hits and count alot of damage.
50 damage max. please.
Or remove the direct contact explode and make the timer a bit longer.
Then the shotguns. In close range they are devastating 1-2 shot weapons.
The maps have too small areas for these kind of weapons. Camping behind a door is too easy.
Nader, Shotguns and Sniper were just tested in TDM, where players could run backwards and don´t have to do an objective.
Avoiding shots was really easy for them. Still i was able to hunt them down.
Most weapons are stronger than the medic gun, but in TDM you can hide and recover.
In obj. based modes you have to push, rendering most of the self-healing useless.[/QUOTE]
About the sniper issue I can agree with you, that the body damage is too high. Although reducing it, will make the sniper even more useless, since hitting headshots with the sniper on moving targets feels a lot like random luck in this game. Bringing up examples like NERD is stupid. I would say, he belongs to the group of the best 5% of players in case of aim in this game so far. He will rape you with any weapon in the game, if it’s a SMG, a shotgun or a Sniper (Except SD decided to add a water gun^^).
But what you say about the other classes is just useless theory… You talk about damage numbers and maps with narrow areas but have you actually really tried to play a shotgun or nader in a 5on5/8on8??? I agree that they can be good at a few really rare places, but if you would have tested them for a longer time you would know how helpless they are in almost every situation in the game. And as a smart player, you can outplay these weapons most of the time.
For me your feedback about the SG and nader sounds like you are just not able to adapt to other typs of weapons than the SMG/AR. I guess you got owned a few times by 1 and 2 shot-kills from these weapons and now you rage about them all the time. But if you would do a fair and objective review of the games you have played so far in dirty bomb, you would have to admit, that there were much more situations in which you got the kill because you outplayed the SG/nader or he was just in a bad position for his weapon. And in the situations where you died against the shotgun you would realize that it was either a backrape (where you would have died anyway, no matter if he can oneshot you from close range or a SMG kills you fast with bodyshots…) or you just chased kill-greedy into a narrow area and died deserved. The situations where you don’t have the possibility to either outplay or simply avoid a shotgun/nader are really rare.
What game are you playing?
On nearly all maps the objectives are in small areas or the ways to the objective contain a lot of narrow corridors and doors with two sides.
Camping as a Shotgun is really easy. I´m coming online^^
[QUOTE=OwNLY;469866]What game are you playing?
On nearly all maps the objectives are in small areas or the ways to the objective contain a lot of narrow corridors and doors with two sides.
Camping as a Shotgun is really easy. I´m coming online^^[/QUOTE]
There are alot of small areas. And every players with a minimum of game/map understanding is able to avoid/change the situation to his advantage or just takes the risk of getting 1 shot killed and rush the shotgun.
And i also said, there are a few situations where shotgun is really strong. But in the other 80% of the fights, the AR/SMG is in an big advantage (which is good as it is).
[QUOTE=Kordin;469870]There are alot of small areas. And every players with a minimum of game/map understanding is able to avoid/change the situation to his advantage or just takes the risk of getting 1 shot killed and rush the shotgun.
And i also said, there are a few situations where shotgun is really strong. But in the other 80% of the fights, the AR/SMG is in an big advantage (which is good as it is).[/QUOTE]
So just now i was on the server and played a bit.
Nader is just ridiculously overpowered.
I went 20-6 with tons of assists and destroyed equipment just by spamming nades around corners.
No skill involved.
Shotgun is a little more complicated, i am way to aggressive to play the shotgun like it is supposed to.
And i miss about 50% of my shots. :rolleyes:
But when i played shotgun, i had already players complain about it.
Since the patch i die more quickly and im not having fun as a consequence. dont feel involved as much.
could this be because of the Reduced Spread introduced at the last patch or did i just get a lot worse.
i was having fun right up to the patch even with less fps and all the bugs.
[QUOTE=OwNLY;469890]So just now i was on the server and played a bit.
Nader is just ridiculously overpowered.
I went 20-6 with tons of assists and destroyed equipment just by spamming nades around corners.
No skill involved.
Shotgun is a little more complicated, i am way to aggressive to play the shotgun like it is supposed to.
And i miss about 50% of my shots. :rolleyes:
But when i played shotgun, i had already players complain about it.[/QUOTE]
If you feel that strong about it setup a pug vs DS. Your team can rock hotdog dispensers, SGs, and auto snipers we wont use any. I really want to see how OP these weapons are in a real game with players higher than level 5.
Thats ok, just grab any 4 people it doesn’t matter. You just need 1 GL 1 Shotty and 1 Auto Sniper from the sounds of it and you’ll wipe us out at every objective.
