/r/gaming K:D vs W:L

(stealth6) #1

Thought this might be interesting?
1584 votes and 1459 so far on reddit

(.FROST.) #2

[QUOTE=stealth6;458403]Thought this might be interesting?
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ixvkf/to_all_the_those_who_judge_on_kd_instead_of_wl/[/QUOTE]

It’s the same old k/d vs w/l debate again, wich is, imo, actually more a matter of taste, than of “right” and “wrong”. And most of the time preferences shift anyways, depending on ones personal mood of the day. But just to add a bit more substance to this thread; what’s your opinion on this topic stealth6?

Speaking for myself; I can live with a 1:1 k/d ratio; a 2:1, or 3:1 ratio would be a lot nicer, but I’m usually not going for those intentionally, but it happens more often, the longer I play this game. But to be honest, I allways have an eye on my k/d and try to not let it drop below 1:2.

My focus is usually 40% on k/d and 60% on the objective and on supporting* my mates.


*(since I play FOPS almost exclusively )

(slanir) #3

k:d is correlated to w:l me thinks. A good shooter will make it easier for his team to complete the objectives.

(.FROST.) #4

Yup, since after all we are talking here basically about shooter games, and not strategy games, in the traditional sense. I think you are quite right. But as I’ve said, it’s the same old debate and it comes up every now and again. I remember we had a couple of those in the Brink forums; about this whole k/d thing and why you couldn’t see it on your scoreboard. Wich I think, to this day, was really a bit “extreme” decission from SD.

In theory, soccer is only w/l based, but in reality, the goal ratio is also important.

(stealth6) #5

I hate global stats. When I play games with global stats I feel pressured to always play properly, I can’t just goof off and have a good time. This is the main reason I stopped playing BF3, it started to feel like a chore (“Only 700 SPM that match damn, that’s gonna give me a SPM drop”).

You could say well just don’t look at your stats which I try not to, but people constantly confront you with them ingame and on teamspeak - Be it people bragging on ts, ingame, hackusation based on stats, etc… It’s like putting everybody into a mandatory competition. In old games I could at least choose if I wanted to play competitvely or not - which rounds counted and which didn’t.

On the K:D vs W:L debate it depends on whether I’m playing pub or not and how good I am at the game. If it’s a pub and I’m good at the game then I focus more on my K:D since playing objective is frustrating with a team that has no clue what they are doing. If I suck at the game (more the case in DB) or I’m not playing a pub then I focus 100% on the win. I don’t care if I have 0-20 at the end of the match if I was the guy repairing all the terminals & escorting the EV or just keeping other people that are better than me on their feet as a medic.

I really liked the way W:ET handled the stats (this has already been discussed at length in other topics). You had a detailed UI you could see by pressing alt that showed you your shots fired, missed, accuracy, headshots, kills & deaths per weapon and on the scoreboard you just had the teams layout. No K:D stats on the scoreboard so you’re not confronted with it every time you check the status of the teams.

On the other hand I know that releasing a game these days without global stats is not exactly a selling point. Everybody wants to show off their e-peen. Even if you made it an opt in kind of thing I’d do it under pressure from my friends. Therefore I’d like to see it in DB, but just don’t force me to look at my ****ty stats every time I open the menu.

(.FROST.) #6

[QUOTE=stealth6;458408]
On the K:D vs W:L debate it depends on whether I’m playing pub or not and how good I am at the game. If it’s a pub and I’m good at the game then I focus more on my K:D since playing objective is frustrating with a team that has no clue what they are doing. If I suck at the game (more the case in DB) or I’m not playing a pub then I focus 100% on the win. I don’t care if I have 0-20 at the end of the match if I was the guy repairing all the terminals & escorting the EV or just keeping other people that are better than me on their feet as a medic.[/QUOTE]

That’s exactly what I meant; it really depends, BUT I also want to know, “where I am” as a shooter, and if the weapon I use fits me, and if my mouse settings are more or less correct. And those are things wich are more/better reflected in your k/d ratio, than in a simple “your team won”, or “your team lost”.

(Protekt1) #7

How can you measure fun?

I never understood why people need to earn points for every little thing they did. Its because they want you to feel good even if you suck and cannot get a kill. Like redstorm you get 5x the points for supplying a MG over killing an enemy.

(Rex) #8

In BF3 you get points for not hitting the target. :smiley: That’s what I call the peak of casual gaming.

(tokamak) #9

One misses the point of the game and the other has low statistical significance.

Therefore:
xp/min

It allows you to measure yourself against others which is is an essential part of multiplayer.

(.FROST.) #10

Try to take it literally; k/d ratio= kill/death ratio, nothing more, and nothing less. Nobody said it’d be a measure-bar for fun. It tells you, to a certain degree, if you know your craft. Since we are playing a fps game here and not a strategy game, or something in between, like NS2, the k/d ratio is a very legit measure-bar to reflect your skill in that particular genre. And you can convince no one, that someone who is an outstanding shooter, miracously sux at doing objectives. That’s just wishful thinking from mediocre shooter guys who claim to be the only ones making a difference, by hiding behind their objectives and occassional gibbing an already downed opponent.

Well, reviving and supporting your fellow mercs with medi-packs and ammo will most likely get you your level ups a whole lot faster, than only polishing your k/d ratio.

(Protekt1) #11

[QUOTE=.FROST.;458419]Try to take it literally; k/d ratio= kill/death ratio, nothing more, and nothing less. Nobody said it’d be a measure-bar for fun. It tells you, to a certain degree, if you know your craft. Since we are playing a fps game here and not a strategy game, or something in between, like NS2, the k/d ratio is a very legit measure-bar to reflect your skill in that particular genre. And you can convince no one, that someone who is an outstanding shooter, miracously sux at doing objectives. That’s just wishful thinking from mediocre shooter guys who claim to be the only ones making a difference, by hiding behind their objectives and occassional gibbing an already downed opponent.

Well, reviving and supporting your fellow mercs with medi-packs and ammo will most likely get you your level ups a whole lot faster, than only polishing your k/d ratio.[/QUOTE]

My point was that who cares whether WL > KDR.

(Protekt1) #12

[QUOTE=tokamak;458416]One misses the point of the game and the other has low statistical significance.

Therefore:
xp/min

It allows you to measure yourself against others which is is an essential part of multiplayer.[/QUOTE]

Its not essential.

(spookify) #13

Who cares its a pub!

I just go for flat out kills… I only slightly care about my deaths and care ZERO about the WIN in a pub. Sure in SW I will play the OBJ a little but mostly be ramboing… In pubs who cares you can have some 9 year old off shooting bullets into a wall for fun in a pub…

Knowing my luck I will get stuck with all the sh=tys and that D|S people will stack a team and all be in a team speak yeah fun. Well it sort of is because you are playing against good players but it is nice to have at least a little support.

I do like the idea of rewards, bonus xp and what not but that would just increase the team stacking and lead to empty servers…

Dealing with a very hard situation because the skill level is so wide in a FPS.

Screw W/L in a Pub it doesnt mean crap! (Team Stacking, AFKS, Noobs, haxers make it useless)

I would concentrate more on Accuracy, headshots, kills, obj, assists, ammo, med pack, and revives.

REWARD GOOD SHOTS! That will also make this a great comp game. I do not want spammy meghee to kill me unless its with a panzer!

(tokamak) #14

Yeah only where 99.9% of DB’s matches will happen. Completely trivial!

(Mustang) #15

No stats = fun; because as stealth6 says, if allows you to goof around or have off days or have friends use your account etc.

(.FROST.) #16

Yeah, overall, that’s true, no doubt about that. But k/d isn’t sooo un-important as some imply. It will allways be a very solid column of the fps genre and I think we should leave it like that. After all everyone prefers a certain role in a game; as a player and in the way he prefers to play. I don’t see why it’s so important to come to one single result in terms of opinion.

When I feel like doing objectives, I’m happy to have some k/d junkies in my team wich keep the enemy from my back. And when some prefer to make love to the EV it’s also great for me, since then I can go out and work on my aim.

Nobody blames a Linebacker for not being a Receiver, but in fps games however, this exact thing goes on all the time.

Even when attacking, there are positions wich are more defensive and some wich are more aggressive. And that someone who prefers a more aggressive play style focuses himself a bit more on his k/d is just natural, since he’s not doing the objectives, yet he still wants to know if he’s any good. Why is that so hard to understand. It’s simple math; the team with a significant(combined) lower k/d loses, there’s simply no way around that. That means in return, the team with the higher k/d average wins. That has to do with the fact, that killed peeps have to stay in limbo for a couple secs and have to run to the battle again. Wich in essence means, they are losing frickin time. Killing=time stealing, losing time=losing. With other words, you could re-name k/d ratio with “ts/tl ratio”(time stolen/time lost ratio).

But again, to see how good you are at “time stealing” you have to watch your k/d ratio from time to time and chose the right “time stealing device”, aka weapon.

So let us call it ts/tl ratio from here on and everybody is happy:wink:

(Erkin31) #17

With the self kill option and sacrifices executed in order to complete objectives, the k/d ratio makes no sense. In others FPS it can, but not in this kind of games.

(spookify) #18

99.9% of Matches will happen in Match (Private) Servers… (Pugs, Scrims, Matches and Tourneys)

(tokamak) #19

Yeah that’s delusional.

(acQu) #20

No stats = no fun, me thinks on this side of the bridge :slight_smile:

I want to see my stats, no matter how bad. I think the way W:ET did it was absolutely ok. W:ET showed stats on alt-menu which are new on each round; each player could see them, each player could use them to tell me how bad i am.

However, tracking sites are a different shoe. Also the upcoming ranking system. I would say: K/D, accuracy, and all that info, this should be what a player should be able to decide if it should be tracked and be displayed on a webpage or not. The player should always have the option to do that. I would say the launcher offers a great possibility here: simply add a little tick-box where it asks you if you want your stats to be tracked so they can be displayed on a global webpage lateron (like splatterladder did for W:ET).

Of course the ladder system is another thing, but similar. Here again, just most recently, Blizzard introduced unranked matches. It sort of comes from the same corner as displaying K/D, but it is not exactly the same. But if you ask me, i would want that too for DB :slight_smile: