Question about aiming in general.

(Gränsfors) #1

Hello there folks.

I’ve decided to created this thread since in most of my Dirty Bombs sessions there was one thing that gave me problems: aiming. To make it clear, I’m not new to FPS games, hell, I used to play ET, Quake III, TF2, CS up to 1.6 and some GO, early CoD games, and much much more. Anyways, the point is, I’m pretty confident when it comes to my skills and gaming senses in general. I know, Dirty Bomb is whole different game, different engine, different pace, as usually, I needed to take some time to get used to it because at first sometimes I even had a trouble with leaving a spawn without getting killed.

Anyways, let’s get to the point: I have a lot of trouble when it comes to aiming with weapons like SMG’s, Assault Rifles, Machine Pistols or whatever they are, in general, anything that’s unscoped and usually forces me to shot a lot. Funny thing is, I have no problem in playing as Vassili, even getting headshots is not that much of a trouble, I also somehow got used to his sidearm, it’s not even close to perfect for me, but still, I usually can rely on it while fighting mid-low HP opponents. On the other hand, everytime I use any kind of rifle or SMG I miss most of my shots. It doesn’t matter if I move or stand still, if I shot single fire, bursts or full auto, I ALWAYS land like 1-5 hits at best, and 90% of time to the body. I don’t know if there’s anything wrong in my playstyle or that’s issue with something else. I’ve tried to spectace other players to see how they aim and I didn’t see anything special about it and yet they managed to land these shots.

Well, another thing is shotguns. They are pretty weird thing for me in this game. I do have ability to actualy use them and if I miss with them it’s mostly my fault, but sometimes I’ve noticed weird issues like dealing very low damage with them or the not registering my hits at all. I can’t tell much about them thought since I haven’t been using them very often.

That’s where I come with my request to more experienced DB players: Would you kindly give me some tips or ideas on what might be wrong with my aiming? Since there’s no offline practice mode other than short sequence of shoting immobile targets on close / mid range I can’t do much in terms of experimenting. Yeah, I do try to use these kinds of weapons in game from time to time, but usually I end up getting killed long before I can come to any conclusion.

From side notes, it’s mostly likely not an issue with my PC nor connection since it happens even while I’ve got constant 60+ FPS and ping around 40-50. Also, I’ve been able to snipe much better at ping 130 than shot with assault rifles on ping 50.

P.S. If you’ve seen any grammar or other kinds of mistakes in my post, feel free to correct me. English is not my first language and I’m learning it pretty much by myself so any kind of support is appreciated.

Well, that’s all from me, thank you in advance, guys and have a nice day.

(Zenity) #2

Shotguns are iffy, just use the SMG loadouts for more reliable weapons. :slight_smile: Shotguns are better for beginners.

Your issues sound like a symptom of high mouse sensitivity. And when I say high, I mean what would be called low sens in most games… People tend to go extremely low with their sensitivity in DB because it helps with tracking so much. We are talking 70cm for a 360 degrees turn or even lower.

Personally I’ve gone back up to something like 40/50 cm for 360, which I would describe as medium/low in most games, but is definitely on the high side in DB.

If you are already using a low sens then you can disregard this, it just sounds to me like you are having tracking issues in general, while your twitch aim is good. You can also work on specifically practicing your tracking aim. E.g. find a fixed spot on the map, keep your crosshair on it while strafing around, do this whenever possible in-between fights and warmup, or on the tutorial stage. You can also practice by locking your crosshair on teammates’ heads in the beginning of a round (“don’t point guns at people” only matters in real life ;)).

60+ FPS is not that great BTW, so this is also going to affect you a little bit especially when things go frantic which is often the case when tracking matters the most. If you can get to at least 100+ FPS, that’s better. Are you using the one frame interval option? I would definitely suggest enabling it if it keeps your FPS above 120 or so.

(NuclearSharkhead) #3

Maybe also look into lowering your mouse DPI. I find that many DB players use anywhere from 400-800 DPI to help their aim. Your results may vary. So experiment.

I use 400 DPI for everything I do on my computer, even browsing the internet. So when I jump ingame I’m already used to my mouse movement. No on-the-fly adaptation needed.

(Gränsfors) #4

Hello again, mates.

I actually think that both of you might be right on that, that’s the one thing that I didn’t think about that much since in other games I had no problems with that yet. The thing is, my mouse broke lately and now I’m forced to use some old, kinda… well, not great mouse which on top of all of this has missing left button (before you say anything, I’m actually used to pretty weird binding where my RMB actions are under E and LMB actions are under RMB with keeping LMB for additional purposes, kinda like extension to macro buttons). I noticed it to be kinda awfull for gaming, but I actually managed to get used to it and even played some TF2 on lobbies and sniper sparrings.

Anyways, I’m planning on buying new keyboard and mouse for gaming purposes after work tommorow so if I’ll have some time at later hours I might give you info on how it affected my aiming.

Also thanks for tips on practicing, Zenity. In fact, I actually did that on empty server for a while, but only a while since after like 10 minutes someone joined and we ended up in ninja mge knife battle.

Cheers.

(Viquel) #5

It’s probably too late - but don’t save on the keyboard either. A ghosting/stuck movement key is highly irritating :disappointed:

(Gränsfors) #6

I’m back.

Well, Viquel: Don’t worry, buddy, I’ve opened several boxes and checked myself which keyboard feels best for me in terms of mechanical work and key placement. Also, the keyboard has no detectable delay and so far, I had no problems with it at all. My new mouse also feels great in hand and works really good, but I’ve yet to test both of them in game. I might start with TF2 thought since I’ve got years in experience here and it will be much easier for me to tell how much this change affects my gaming.

Cheers.

UPDATE:

Alright guys, I’ve gave it a try in Dirty Bomb and it actually helped a lot. I’ve joined Stopwatch match in mid-game and managed to get 17 kills and over 7200 points playing only with SMG and Assault Rifle (a bit of Sawbonez and lots of Skyhammer). To make things clear, it was so far my very best with these kinds of weapons and it’s huge improvement since my last play. I’m still at best decent when it comes to gunplay, but now I can finally enjoy the firefights without feeling useless.

Well, the other thing is that most people on pubs don’t even work in team, plan ahead nor think tactical yet they tend to yell at each other and insult someone they don’t like or agree with. For example, in my last match since I’ve joined in second half game I was on bottom of the scoreboard (still pretty good thought, top scoring guy was around 11k while I was at 7,2k) and I didn’t do that good since it was my first true time playing with automatic weaponry in this game, but still, I’ve tried, I’ve constantly supplied ammo, finished downed enemies, called airstrikes, tried to defend the objective and checked for people who seeked help.
Then there’s this guy, pro MGE top scoring level 11 guy yelling at random people from his team that they don’t even do what he wants them to (let’s just forget about that he spoke only to insult and yell at others, not to discuss tactics or even ask for help). Guess what? I’ve got bashed by him for not trying to finish the defuse while being chased by 3 people at once. In the end I’ve got to know that I can’t know anything anyways since I’m level 6.

Yeah, pretty much bonerkiller.

And then there are you, guys. You actually cared to read my messages and help me without unnecessary bashing like “omg you just suck, get gud kid”. And great thanks to you for that because your advices actually helped me to get on my way in solving this problem. I wish rest of the DB community was like that. It’s kinda sad how many unresponsive or mean people are there already, and it’s just Closed Beta.

Well, anyways, thanks again and have fun yourselves, mates.

Cheers.

(CCP115) #7

I dunno if the problem is 100% fixed, but here are some of my tips:

Firstly, I’m not wanting to be rude, but what Nuclearsharkhead and Zenith said are what I consider a load of lies. Sensitivity and DPI are all personal preference, and 70cm for 360 degrees is insane, I doubt even CS players would go that low, and this game is far more fast paced than CS. Use whatever is comfortable for you. As for the framerate thing, 60 is fine. I doubt your monitor can support over 60, and even if it can, 60 is more or less the de facto minimum for FPS. And DPI? Again, whatever you prefer. I use 1800 dpi, and just turn down in-game sens. I could use 400 dpi, and increase game sens, it wouldn’t make much of a difference.

Just practice, make sure you find a right sensitivity. It’s all about comfort. Adjust your desk IRL as well, you could be too cramped or too spread out. Also, make sure “mouse acceleration” is off, as that is a definite no when it comes to FPS. Lastly, while twitch shots are cool and all, it is much better in terms of practice and general aim to get used to tracking instead of flicking. After enough practice, flicking becomes second nature, which is kinda what Zenith said, so it wasn’t 100% lies.

Sorry Nuclearsharkhead and Zenith, I just didn’t agree with most of what you said.

(Szakalot) #8

The way to find proper sens for yourself is to start at very low and keep rising it when you feel you can’t ‘keep up’.

Higher sens problems are harder to spot, cause overshooting could be result of dodging etc.

But low sens problems are obvious to anyone as you feel like you are ‘too slow’ and can’t keep up with enemies movements.

(Gränsfors) #9

To clarify things up:

I knew that much by myself, but the whole idea of lowering my sensitivity and also what comes with it, finally getting more precise mouse helped. A LOT. I’ve been just too used to playing on high sensitivity so I thought it’s gonna work here too, especially since it’s pretty usefull for me while I’m sniping in TF2 (you know, twich aim, quick scopes, I’ve learned them all while playing with hi-sens, and well, they’re not really worse option than tracking because many times they can save your time and ass, especially in CQB).
Well, maybe I’m just not playing as much as I used to, lack of time made hard mark on me. I’m probably just to used to my habits from games I used to play.

Also, I’m not stupid to follow someone’s elses advices blindly especially when it comes to IT since I probably have more experience with many different computers (including working with stuff like for example Commodore 64, several Amiga versions or PC on MS-DOS) than many of nowadays gamers (not to mention I’ve studied some IT), I’ve actually configured everything up to my preferences, but I still needed to thank them for their advices because they’ve actually been helpful, just as I’ve mentioned before. These guys did a good job and even if they would be completly wrong, it’s still worth mentioning their effort.

Anyways, thanks again mates. I think the thread can be closed unless someone else wants to use it for his own purposes or add something to it. Improving my aim is now all up to me and my practice.

Cheers.

(Zenity) #10

[quote=“extravagentBypass;15814”]I dunno if the problem is 100% fixed, but here are some of my tips:

Firstly, I’m not wanting to be rude, but what Nuclearsharkhead and Zenith said are what I consider a load of lies.[/quote]

Dude! If you don’t want to be rude, don’t accuse somebody of lying especially if all you have to offer is your personal opinion. Thankfully we don’t have to rely on opinions alone since there are objective facts to go by, so we can talk about this like grown ups. Nobody is lying here, although some of us may be misinformed. :slight_smile:

Sensitivity and DPI are all personal preference, and 70cm for 360 degrees is insane, I doubt even CS players would go that low, and this game is far more fast paced than CS. Use whatever is comfortable for you.

What you “doubt” doesn’t matter when the facts are that some top players use sensitivities which are this low. Players don’t make a secret of their settings, so this is something you can easily confirm for yourself. You can find that info usually on players’ Twitch profiles, if you ask them, or in this thread: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/367/share-your-mouse-settings/p1

Some examples would be: lulNope at 60/360, potty toggles between 84/360 (!!) and 60/360, PixelTwitch at 500 DPI / 5 in-game which is… very low. chickenWaffles at 400 DPI/ 4 in-game which is… crazy low (I use 400 DPI / 9 in-game right now and that’s about 46/360, so most likely chickenWaffles is hitting the 70s). Also dignitas nvc recently mentioned on his Stream that his sens was about 70/360 (he was shocked himself how low he had this set in Dirty Bomb, after playing some other games for a while).

Some of these are considered to be among the best aimers or players of the game. Of course I am not saying that 70/360 is better than any other (I use a higher sensitivity myself after all), but it’s not a lie that some top players go this low. It’s an easily verifiable fact.

Also if you pay attention while watching the streams of top players, you will notice that they rarely ever make fast 180 turns. When they turn around, they usually do so in two or three quick movements, because they have to readjust their mouse in-between.

I believe you are actually right that players don’t usually go this low in Counter-Strike (I certainly did not, and I know most pros did not either), but you are drawing the wrong conclusion. In CS, twitching is far more important than in DB which is more heavily tracking based. It has very little to do with the speed of the game.

Absolutely go with the sensitivity that feels best for you, but it’s not a bad idea to keep these facts in mind. Dirty Bomb benefits more heavily from a low sensitivity than most other games, so making a change to your habits can pay off if you can make it work for you.

As for the framerate thing, 60 is fine. I doubt your monitor can support over 60, and even if it can, 60 is more or less the de facto minimum for FPS.

Unless you use VSync (which is terribly slow), your 60 FPS will not line up with your monitor refresh rate. The monitor will refresh in-between two frames, and the larger the difference between these two frames, the more visible the screen tearing becomes. With higher FPS, thinks look smoother and the visuals are a little more close to real time, so it just feels better. You can try it for yourself by limiting your FPS to 60 (without VSync) and then to 120 for a while. See if you notice a difference. Maybe some don’t, but many do and I’ve tested this frequently enough to be certain that this isn’t a placebo.

Another thing is that if the One Frame Interval option is enabled, you get additional input lag of about one frame’s duration. So if you only get about 60 FPS with that option enabled, that’s really bad. If you have it disabled then that’s not a factor, but so far most seem to agree that the additional FPS from enabling this option are worth it.

And DPI? Again, whatever you prefer. I use 1800 dpi, and just turn down in-game sens. I could use 400 dpi, and increase game sens, it wouldn’t make much of a difference.

This is absolutely true in general, unfortunately there is an issue with negative acceleration at low in-game sensitivity levels in some UE3 games (including Dirty Bomb). It won’t affect most players, but if using a lower DPI and higher in game sens can avoid this problem until it is fixed, then why not?

Sorry Nuclearsharkhead and Zenith, I just didn’t agree with most of what you said.

Don’t apologise for disagreements. That’s always welcome, and I enjoy getting to the bottom of these details. If I can learn something new, then that’s fantastic. If I can share what I know, that’s fine as well.

As for calling us liars, please don’t apologize for that either. Just don’t do it. :slight_smile:

(avidCow) #11

I think I may have a similar problem; using the wrong sensitivity. I’m losing too many fights where I flick at the target and get 1 or 2 body shots and a headshot before missing absolutely every other shot needed to finish the fight.

Also getting slower with age B)

(yakcyll) #12

Not with age but with less hours a week spent on playing.

Aiming by RaZiel is still relevant for DB in many parts, even if there’s no sidestep sprinting nor hardcore driver tweaking these days. If you are sure you understand nothing can substitute solid practice, then read through it, it’s worth the time.

(Gränsfors) #13

[center]Well, hello there again.

Since it’s weekend and I’ve got more time, I’ve decided to do some practice. I’ve also got FPS config to make sure I won’t get visible drops below 60 FPS.
I must say, I’m pretty satisfied with the effects. I’ve been focusing too much on fighting instead of doing objectives directly, but still, killing itself became MUCH easier for me. Also, I’ve started to love Bushwhacker, now I’m saving credits to buy him.

Also, as a proof that changing sensitivity and getting better mouse can make HUGE difference, here are my fast screenshots from last match:

[/center]

(benignMaster) #14

Sounds like you have your problem solved, but I just wanted to say that aiming in this game is very similar to aiming in ET.

(Chirs) #15

I’ve been looking at lower my mouse sensitivity, but, and I appreciate this may be a dumb question, how do you turn around with such low settings? I don’t have a massive desk space (I’ve been relegated to the corner with one of those naff computer desks with a pull-out shelf for the keyboard) so I can’t use one of those massive mouse mats and sweep my arm across it every time to spin round.

Currently got it set to 400dpi and about 11 in-game and it takes me a few little sweeps to spin round. My aim is stupidly improved from the change. Should I increase the DPI a bit and lower my mouse sensitivity in-game to compensate?

All advice appreciated.

(yakcyll) #16

Whichever sensitivity allows you to hit most consistent shots will work. If it’s 400/11 for you, then keep it that way. Lower DPI is better than lower sensitivity in-game, has less potency to jerk around from my experience.

(umberInlet) #17

Im also having issues finding a good setting. For me, I don’t burst fire, but instead counter the recoil in FPS games. But, I can’t find a good setting. If its too high, I have issues with tracking. If its too low, then I can’t counter the recoil well. Any tips?

(Nail) #18

burst fire

(Zenity) #19

[quote=“ChriThor;16987”]I’ve been looking at lower my mouse sensitivity, but, and I appreciate this may be a dumb question, how do you turn around with such low settings? I don’t have a massive desk space (I’ve been relegated to the corner with one of those naff computer desks with a pull-out shelf for the keyboard) so I can’t use one of those massive mouse mats and sweep my arm across it every time to spin round.

Currently got it set to 400dpi and about 11 in-game and it takes me a few little sweeps to spin round. My aim is stupidly improved from the change. Should I increase the DPI a bit and lower my mouse sensitivity in-game to compensate?

All advice appreciated.[/quote]

If you don’t have desk space, that’s difficult of course. Those computer desks are pretty bad for gaming unfortunately. :frowning: Perhaps you can improve the situation a bit by switching to a tenkeyless keyboard, if you haven’t already? There are even super small keyboards without the arrow key block, and those are perfectly fine for gaming. Something like the Razer Orbweaver could be another option to save space, but then you’d have to find another space for your keyboard while gaming.

Then use the biggest mouse mat you can fit, even if part of it is under the keyboard. Also if you get something like a QCK pad, you could go the extreme way and cut it to size. Best would be to get a different desk or separate surface for the mouse of course.

Though even with a large mat, you’ll still have to readjust the mouse a lot to make large turns. This is probably the hardest part to master with a low sensitivity, and I still struggle with it as well. I like to practice this with the Quake Live lightning gun since you have to turn so much (and fast) in that game. It does put you at a disadvantage in some situations, so you have to use gamesense and experience to compensate for it.

Increasing your DPI wouldn’t make any difference unless you are on a really high resolution (I don’t think it matters for anything < 4k), so you can just as well stick with 400 to be “safe”.

(Gränsfors) #20

Hello there.

I see my thread is still up. Frankly, I didn’t need to put my sensitivity much lower, the key in my case was getting better mouse and setting low DPI on it. I had no time to play Dirty Bomb lately, but as I’ve mentioned before, my aim improved a lot, also, it kinda worked for other games too.

Another thing is, like some people mentioned it already before, while lowering your DPI / sensitivity may help, it’s mostly up to your preferences. There’s no magical config which will work for everyone and suit all your needs, you need to find out what’s best for you yourself. Don’t force yourself to play on XYZ settings just because “some pros do so”.

Cheers.