Put a cooldown on Martyr lads.

[Fuze]

[quote=“Gi.Am;38306”]@Fuze really? I have never seen that one come up in a discussion. And thinking about it I can’t recollect a single instance where I was missing a grenade marker graphic. But anyways if this is a thing, then it is indeed a severe bug that should have a high priority to fix (since it influences all grenades).

[quote=“Fish-Man;38211”] … In fact, it could make for an interesting guessing game, having to try to puzzle out from the Nader’s behavior while alive whether or not their Martyrdom is ready.

As a final note, it takes two directly-landed Nader grenades to finish off a downed enemy Nader, which I think is a rather unusual resource tradeoff.[/quote]

The problem is (atleast I argue that way) that quite a few people already can’t solve the puzzle of distinguishing between Nader and other Mercs (or are unwilling to do so) adding in a chance, that sometimes its ok to knife Nader, sometimes its not. Wouldn’t improve the situation (atleast not for the non Nader player).

Nader has 110 HP a direct hit does 90 a non direct 75 so yes you need two grenades. Is a bit nonsensical but consistent.
[/quote]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen the marker not show up on anything else other than martyrdom, nor have I see anyone complain about it not showing up, other than martyrdom. But really, I’m not surprised you haven’t seen anyone talk about it, just as no one was talking about Fletcher’s sticky bombs not actually exploding most of the time and that’s one of the most serious bugs in the game right now.

[Fish-Man]

[quote=“omnipotentBean;38303”]A cooldown for martyr is a horrible idea. It make entire ability ambiguous. Everyone will react the same because they will not know if you can martyr or not.
[/quote]

Some people still run in for the knife finish now, when they’ll be blown up every time. At least with a cooldown, it might not be guaranteed that a Nader has the option to sit waiting past the spawn timer, acting as an intelligent proximity mine (which I’ve done a few times). Also, if you have to stay alive long enough to get Martyrdom back, you’ll have to think more about when suicide bombing runs are appropriate and effective. which is better for team play.

[quote=“Gi.Am;38306”]The problem is (atleast I argue that way) that quite a few people already can’t solve the puzzle of distinguishing between Nader and other Mercs (or are unwilling to do so) adding in a chance, that sometimes its ok to knife Nader, sometimes its not. Wouldn’t improve the situation (atleast not for the non Nader player).
[/quote]

And the visual ambiguity can be an issue, especially with the different skins; for example, someone used to looking for the bronze loadout skin may not recognize the default loadout skin, or the Swiss Red skin, in time to stop themselves. This will only get more troublesome in the future if more unusual skins become available. I would suggest that Nader could have a different animation when in downed state with Martyrdom ready, to at least help those who weren’t involved in killing her.

[Reddeadcap]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;37779”]In other words, if people aren’t smart enough to figure out the Nader is the only who can Martyr, and you intentionally keep trying to knife her, hoping it’ll be different. Then that’s your problem, and the mechanic shouldn’t be changed for those people who can’t take a hint.

After all, that is the definition of insanity right?[/quote]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/237154.jpg

[sinKrin]

I think one of the issues with a downed Nader is the camera. It shifts to 3rd person which allows for better viewing and easier corner peeking.

[Wryposte]

I’m new to this forum so im sure the whole nader arguement has raged since her release…Naturally I’ve been on both sides of martyr and the only situation I feel it’s too strong in is when you use it to kamikaze enemy players when your about to die or kamikaze a foothold of enemy players to clear them out.

Perhaps adding an extra ~0.5 second on the detonation time of the grenade would be a more viable change than to add a cooldown. You’ll still catch the people who try to knife you or people you lay in wait for, but people who know about martyr have that extra little bit of time to get out if you drop it on their face.

Just my 2c

[Yak]

The problem isn’t martyrdom, it’s that people don’t take a second to identify the corpse on the ground as Nader. She looks like a turtle with her backpack, it’s not too hard to see even from across the map. If you run up to her and she blows you up, its entirely your fault for doing so. If you complain that you can’t recognize her, you need to learn what she looks like more. If you happen to run around a corner into a dead Nader, its either your teammate’s fault for not finishing her, or she positioned herself well to get another kill. I always always always gib enemies with my pistol so I don’t even have to leave my cover. 3-4 shots to the head and they’re gibbed.

A thing about staying as a mine on the ground: No smart Nader would do this, ever. You being a smart mine on the ground means you’re not up and shooting enemies. You’re staying on the ground in the hopes of getting a kill, when you could be alive and killing several enemies with your launcher and guns. You’re hurting your team by doing so, depriving them of a teammate.

[Jojack]

I think one of the issues with a downed Nader is the camera. It shifts to 3rd person which allows for better viewing and easier corner peeking.

This is actually a really good idea and the only “nerf” to martyrdom I would possibly support. Don’t allow her the free cam when she is downed. It would be a lot harder to pull off a good marty if you can’t see 360 degrees from an elevated position and see around corners.

[N8o]

Like many people say when people QQ on the forum and say they will quit:

This game wont miss you. The fact that you are going to quit over one of the most avoidable mechanics in the game is absurd. I haven’t died to a Nader in a few weeks since I have been playing smarter. If you just don’t get yourself into a crappy situation, you will be good. Sometimes, yes, it is unavoidable. In cases like this: GG. Well played. Nader used Nader correctly. Cookies for Nader.

[sinKrin]

@Jojack I agree. I’ve had several Martyrdom kills precisely because I was positioned well and could rotate the camera around the corner. The incoming Mercs had no real chance to escape. It also works well on steps/elevators.

At least with something like mines you can hear a beep. Nader just lies there like a silent turtle.

[unexpectedCompany]

I’m a Nader player and i will confess that i use the third person view when downed, the camera is OP not the ability (it is like a mine but you have to die to place it).
I think that the third person camera when downed is unfair when you play a suicide bomber.
It is your teammate fault when you die to a suicide bomber that was downed, they should always double tap.
Oh and please don’t complain in the chat when you picked a knife fight with someone that has an explosive belt and lost.

[bubblesKeyboard]

Martyrdom is something straight out of CoD:MW3. I thought this game was better than that.

And guess what? Even MW3 had a cool down on marytrdom.

The cooldown is basically the death, which aka a punishment, so if you put a cooldown, that’s 2 punishments total which is gonna be BS, and there’s gonna be even more rant threads if this happens.

wat.

[quote=“Jostabeere;37849”][quote=“dynamicOctagon;37848”]
So it’s normal that you get rewarded with an insta kill if you die and they’re close to you? that’s your definition? Then all mercs will have either last stand or martyrdom from now on. [/quote]

Is it normal then that Skyhammers airstrike has a massive AoE and Fraggers nades don’t. Is it normal that Auras station stays and Sawbones medkits don’t. Your logic here, nothing more my friend.
Martyrdom can be prevented actively. [/quote]

are you trolling?
Sky’s airstrike has a 1 min 30 cooldown and Fragger’s is 15 seconds. His airstrike isn’t as anti-personnel friendly as Fragger’s.

putting it on cooldown would be even worse because no one except the nader would know if they would blow up. Its pretty easy to spot naders massive backpack so I don’t see why martyr is so hard to deal with.

This is what Nader’s do. They spam their nades, and then yolo rush into a group of 4 or 5 enemies in a choke point and dies, and then takes out everyone with her. There’s no cooldown either, so you can rinse and repeat this as many times as you want. I see this happen a lot in the turret room on Trainyard and the first objective C4 on Underground. It’s not about accidentally forgetting that it’s Nader and not knifing to gib her, its about killing her in a CQC battle and then not being able to get away before ALLAHU AKHBAR.

[quote=“triteTongs;37834”]The cooldown you are talking about already exists.
It’s called dying[/quote]

Dying is a cooldown? Are you kidding me?
Ok let’s make Skyhammer’s cooldown dying. Every time he respawns he has an airstrike.
Or more reasonably, make Phoenix’s self-revive cool down dying. He has a minute long cool down on that thing, but if Nader doesn’t, why should he?

[bubblesKeyboard]

[quote=“Gi.Am;38197”]You don’t get a free kill for simply dying.

First let me point out that Martyrdom has a fuse of 0,9 sec and gives a grenade warning (which is most certainly more time and warning, than a proximity mine gives you). Because of that you have always an option to evade Martyrdom if you react quickly. Will you make mistakes in the heat of a battle? Most certainly. Everyone does.

If you shoot a Nader point blank and decide to stay to take another shot at the skyhammer behind her, you made a mistake.

If you get killed by Martyrdom because someone else killed Nader (aside from still being able to outrun it.) Why are you mad at the Nader player your teammate didn’t finish her or warned you about her.
The Nader player isn’t getting a kill for doing nothing he gets that kill because
a. someone didn’t do their job
b. he did everything right. He died in a good spot.He didn’t imidently blew himself up. He might be even delaying his respawn which leaves his team with one man less for that duration.

Btw. Proxy has two abilities she is an engineer and has faster repairs. You could argue that Fragger and Rhino both have only one ability, but they both deal arguable more damage with them and have higher survivability.
Tho Rhino is extremely situationaly and I wouldn’t mind if he had another ability that might help him in situations, that are not “sitting in a corner”.[/quote]

Sure but lets be real, when have you ever (or a teammate of your’s ever) killed a Nader and then put on their mic and said “Watch out there’s a Nader I just killed and she might blow herself up”

[quote=“Yak;38609”]The problem isn’t martyrdom, it’s that people don’t take a second to identify the corpse on the ground as Nader. She looks like a turtle with her backpack, it’s not too hard to see even from across the map. If you run up to her and she blows you up, its entirely your fault for doing so. If you complain that you can’t recognize her, you need to learn what she looks like more. If you happen to run around a corner into a dead Nader, its either your teammate’s fault for not finishing her, or she positioned herself well to get another kill. I always always always gib enemies with my pistol so I don’t even have to leave my cover. 3-4 shots to the head and they’re gibbed.

A thing about staying as a mine on the ground: No smart Nader would do this, ever. You being a smart mine on the ground means you’re not up and shooting enemies. You’re staying on the ground in the hopes of getting a kill, when you could be alive and killing several enemies with your launcher and guns. You’re hurting your team by doing so, depriving them of a teammate.[/quote]

If you’re lying on the ground waiting to be revived, you’re a smart mine until you do get revived or the new spawn wave starts.

Honestly what we really need to think about is the reason for which this ability is in the game. Every merc has an ability that gives it a niche but this one seems nonsensical. In addition every merc’s skill requires strategy or at least some minimal amount of thought. This one doesn’t. As quoted from the SD merc role-call video, “as a last resort, don’t be afraid to charge your enemy because you can always take them out with martyrdom”. (Unless you think yolo rushing people is a strategy).

It doesn’t seem to really serve any purpose besides punishing anyone who takes her out in cqc or is squishy. I run Aura with a shotgun (because its OP) and there was this one game where there was a Nader who would just yolo rush me by dropping down from on top of the first objective in Underground and I would take her out only for her to suicide nade me every time. No matter how hard I tried to create distance between her and I she would get me. Yeah if she used her nades that would have the same effect but it would give me a chance to relocate and or run away or something.

Also, it would actually take some thought. wow

[AnimeDude]

Maxing the necromancy stat I see

[BananaSlug]

wait, people are still complaining about martrydroom?!?

[SereneFlight1]

Looks like people who are frustrated about martydom haven’t played against Proxy.

[RedBeard]

[quote=“dynamicOctagon;13396”]Just saying, especially on a free to play rotation the amount of “death corpses” is too damn high!

“Don’t run toward them then!” you may chant.

When you’re running in a close corridor and a crippled nader lays down and is waiting for you to pass behind a corner you’re about to pass… And believe me that happens too much of my likings!

Not saying it’s OP. Just bloody annoying. On maps like underground, terminus and chapel, Nader’s to annoying to deal with.
“dude, you should need to learn how to handle her”
Yes, avoid her when she’s alive and when she’s down because she has a tactical nuke laying dormant up in her butt until she dies and it detonates. In which case the game crashes and you get radiation poisoning…
Giggles aside, in the heat of battle, you’re having better things to do then to check if she’s truely that annoying spamming little nade @$!# or some other cheap hooker. Now that i mention it, still need to pay isabelle for last nights services… But going off topic here.

Either give a cooldown on her “@$!# you all” ability or increase the time it requires for that damn thing to blow up. Or, take CoD’s example and let her require a 25 killstreak in order to @$!# that bomb out.

How you fix it, I don’t care. But i recommend you fix it as soon as possible before she drops another one and as result make NATO think russia’s launching a nuclear war.

Just saying. For humanities safety, and my sanity.
[/quote]

@dynamicOctagon Don’t forget to delete your forum account!

[Grave_Knight]

Uh…this is really old. The original complaint isn’t even relevant anymore. @Amerika

[Amerika]

@bubblesKeyboard Please don’t necro extremely old and non-relevant threads please