PSA: Cards above bronze DO give you gameplay benefits, not just skins

(Sagan on Roids) #1

I keep hearing people say that there’s no benefit to silver/gold cards aside from skins. Even Nexon seems to think this is true:

Remember, while rarities beyond Bronze net you rarer bling, you’ll get no additional gameplay benefits. But hey, you’ll look extra swish!

(from the latest patch notes)

That is true for some loadouts, but in reality there are certain cards that you can only get in silver/gold, or just gold. Take a look at these loadout trees for example:

http://s8.postimg.org/et9mnwjyb/Sawbonez.jpg
http://s8.postimg.org/c8420dukj/Proxy.jpg

(More available here)

You’ll see that there’s more than a few cards that are only available at silver or gold. Here are few notable ones:

  • Sawbonez CR73 Companion Operative (silver/gold): comes with a Crotzni, Potent Packs, Mechanic, Get up, and a cricket bat
  • Proxy R23 Adept Close Assault (silver/gold): comes with a Remburg, Cool, Looter, Quick Slash, and a cricket bat.
  • Proxy KE53 Elite Operative (gold): comes with a Hochfir, Guardian Angel, Drilled, Quick Draw, and a cricket bat.

Here’s some quick math to calculate the value of cards based on the trade up system:

  • We’ll assume that the average player earns around 500 credits per game
  • We’ll assume that lead cards are worth 0 credits
  • 1 iron card = 3 leads (0 credits each) + 500 credit fee = 500 credits = 1 game
  • 1 bronze card = 3 irons (500 credits each) + 1,000 credit fee = 2,500 credits = 5 games
  • 1 silver card = 4 bronze cards (2,500 credits each) + 2,000 credit fee = 12,000 credits = 24 games
  • 1 gold card = 4 silver cards (12,000 credits each) + 4,000 credit fee = 52,000 credits = 104 games

(warning, rant incoming)

I mention this because I keep hearing people say “silver/gold are only for cosmetics!” in defense of the RNG crate/trade up system. That’s not true. I love Dirty Bomb, but in my opinion, this whole crate/trade up system is incredibly frustrating and unrewarding, to the point where I’ve basically given up even using it for the most part. This week I decided to give it another shot because I wanted that Proxy R23 card, and ended up wasting over 30k credits + dozens of bronze/silver cards, only to get junk silvers/gold cards that I’ll never use. In retrospect I wish I would’ve saved the credits to buy Kira/Rhino instead.

52,000 credits is a lot for a single card, but I’m okay with that. What I’m not okay with is gambling away 52K credits for a terrible gold card that I’ll never use. It’s frustrating, unrewarding, and deflating. I have 8 gold cards, only 1 of which I use. Also, I personally find the idea of $5 “Elite” cases that only drop silver/gold to be really insulting, when there’s a significant chance I’ll get a card that sucks on a merc I don’t use. Yes, I know this is beta and mechanics/prices are being tested, and I’m saying this needs to change.

Giving us tiers above gold is not the solution. Just to speculate here, since it’s currently not possible to trade up gold cards:

  • 1 cobalt card = 4 gold cards (52,000 credits each) + 8,000 credit fee = 216,000 credits = 432 games
  • 1 “elite” card = 4 cobalt cards (216,000 credits each) + 16,000 credit fee = 880,000 credits = 1,760 games

I’ll stop there because you can see it’s starting to get out of hand, with an exponential growth in the amount of credits it takes to unlock the next tier. Suffice to say, if I wasted that much time/effort on a card I didn’t like, I might break my keyboard.

Removing some of the randomness from the system would definitely help. For example, maybe the player could choose which weapon they wanted, and they’d get a random card with that weapon. Even if they didn’t get the card they wanted, that would make it a little easier to swallow.

There also needs to be a way to exchange cards for credits or lower tiers cards. I am never going to waste my credits on a cobalt card, and seeing those trashy gold cards in my loadouts every time is like rubbing salt in the wound.

(end rant)

(potty1) #2

Almost a million games for one cobalt card :Ddddd. Love it

(aquaSavant) #3

Yeah this needs more visibility. They either need to remove the claim that there are no benefits but looking cool, or they need to make every “set-up” (weapons + augment combination) available in a bronze card. I didn’t even really mind it until they put that incorrect claim in the game.

(Tomme) #4

At first I thought they might have got rid of the silver and gold exclusives but people still have them I think so what they are claiming is 100% wrong. It needs to be changed quickly; unlike simple errors, bugs or pricing discussions this is flat out lying and dishonest and needs to be addressed yesterday.

Edit: Like to confirm my silver Sawbonez, CR73 is not available as a bronze and only silver and above like previously

N.B Posted a link to this post on SplashDamage forums, hopefully you don’t mind @“Sagan on Roids”

(pDub) #5

I was under the impression that any loadout can be gotten with bronze cards. If this is true then the game is p2w and the claim they make is false.

The only addition to higher cards should be skins, Not the better perk combos

(Amerika) #6

@pDub There is one extra loadout per tier up (not sure about Cobalt). Silver has one unique loadout above Bronze and Gold has one unique above Silver (but also has access to the Silver unique).

However, there is only one gold card I’d consider really wanting (M4 Fragger unique) and there is one Sawbonez Silver I went for specifically (and got pretty quickly luckily).

I do think they need to make all loadouts available at bronze but maybe give the cricket bat to a few Silvers and all Gold’s if they want to sweeten the pot if they must (but maybe nerf the bat so it’s not A LOT better than a knife…which it is). I’d prefer them to just be completely cosmetic though as it would remove any pay2win talk. But I would like to see them change that whole system anyway but that’s another topic.

(Szakalot) #7

This was brought up on today’s dev stream.

Current position of SD is that this is still a matter of internal debate, but in any case they would never mean for those silver/gold exclusives to be clearly better than alternatives. looking at the genome list it is usually true with some notably exceptions mentioned by OP

(srswizard) #8

I’ve been using that best silver-tier Sawbonez card for a while, and I didn’t even realize that it’s locked to silver/gold-tiers.

I can easily say that it’s top tier, instead of just being something alternative, like the silver/gold tier exclusive loadouts usually are.

(triteTongs) #9

This is the only thing I sort of don’t agree with.

I wish it stopped at Bronze. Because then you can’t use this argument for “RNG” Loadouts

(Runeforce) #10

With the changes to the quest system and credit earn rates, those loadouts has been significantly easier to acquire, especially if you spend a lot of time on the game.

(Thai-San) #11

Looking at your quick math I’d say that you set the worth of a lead card way too low. A crate costs 1000c in the store and it has like a 75%-90% chance of dropping lead. So the worth of a lead card is around 800 (since you get random crate drops after matches) but I usually calculate with 1000c.
This makes the math more frustrating, yes. But You have to consider, that you still have the chance (even if it’s quiet low) to get free bronze/silver/gold and even cobalt cards since the crates are random, containing every single rarity.
A few days ago I got 2 bronze, 2 silver and a gold card on a single day without spending a single credit. Just by pure luck.

Having this in mind I don’t understand how people can call it p2w. I don’t like the change that we are able to buy cards and crates with real money now either, but even with the elite crates and even with the bronze pack bundles for trade up: You still have to have luck to get a good card. You just higher your chance a “little”.

I agree that some rare cards are better then bronze.
Sawbonez CR73 Companion Operative is the best Sawbonez card out there. But it’s still manageable to craft.

But even then. The augments are minor changes to adapt the merc to your play style. If Dirty Bomb would be p2w there would be Cards like:

Skyhammer T93 Money Warrior
High Velocity Bullets - 25% Weapon dmg increase
Big Backpack - 50% AoE ability cool down reduction
Drummed Magazines - 100% clip size increase

but there aren’t.

Back to the “better” gold and silver cards:
I like the fact that there are cards only available in a specific rarity, so if you want that card you have to save up for it and every time you open a crate or craft a card you have that
“Yeah, today could be the day. This time I could get that ONE CARD I want more then every other”
Sure you are disappointed when you get ones that you don’t like maybe even over and over again.
But trust me: The day I got my CR73… when that silver little sawbonez poped up on my screen I knew I found my baby, the card I love and which I’ll never swap for another again, because this is the card I worked for.

(Kouken) #12

[quote=“pDub;21319”]I was under the impression that any loadout can be gotten with bronze cards. If this is true then the game is p2w and the claim they make is false.
[/quote]

A lot of people have this impression, and its completely false

The “best” proxy loadout is a Gold Exclusive: KE53 Elite Operative (Guardian Angel, Drilled, Quick Draw)

The “best” aura loadout is also Gold Exclusive: BL41 Relief Operative (Get Up, Double Time, Extra Supplies)

My favourite Sawbonez loadout is Silver/Gold Exclusive: CR73 Companion Operative (Potent Packs, Mechanic, Get Up)

It also has not been confirmed yet if Cobalt and Elite loadouts are going to add further exclusive loadouts. Comeon nexon make a double time, quickdraw, drilled proxy exclusive to cobalt/elite so we can call the game p2w and stop supporting you

(APRenpsy) #13

I must disagree with the P2W statement, you can’t buy these cards you can only hope you get them though crates. Sure you can buy crates but the chances you have of get a gold card and the card you want are pretty slim. Now if you could directly buy a card with money then I may agree with you.

I will agree that it discouraging that better perk combos are on higher tiers but it is not like they been locked behind a pay wall.

That being said I don’t like the loadout system as it is but I played other Nexon games that been a lot more… you know… cough… CA… cough…

(umberInlet) #14

Cards right now are not Pay 2 Win, in my definition. Yes, the cards can be purchased with real currency, but they are not restricted to such. Though, I understand where people are coming from. I played a game called Blacklight Retribution. Sure, with my definition, the game isn’t Pay 2 Win. But, because the grind was so horrendous, it gave off that sense of feeling. The default weapon that you start off in that game is also considered to be one of the best for competitive play as well, yet newcomers back then were drawn away from the game.

This ties into DB. The current items being sold are not Pay 2 Win. But with such costs, many newcomers will reject the game and call it so. Right now, the game is at a fragile state, imo. If this game was to go into Open Beta, newcomers might start criticizing the cash shop right off the bat, and would drive away potential future consumers.

This is all just speculation though. I don’t know much about business. :stuck_out_tongue:

(pDub) #15

Thanks!

(Nail) #16

Aimee will still headshot you

(Daergar) #17

I just hope we get two bronze cards added to every loadout, namely the current silver- and gold-tier exclusives. Does this not solve the problem entirely and we can get back to testing the pew-pew?

(Thai-San) #18

A noob with an awesome gold card will still be a noob and most likely be on the bottom of the scoreboard.
An old shooter veteran with a crappy lead card or even the default will be most likely the best on the server because he’s good, not his card.

Like I said before:
Minor changes.

Even one of the best augments in the game “drilled” wouldn’t make any difference in a firefight because most good players will change to their secondary instead of reloading.

(Szakalot) #19

[quote=“Kouken;21373”][quote=“pDub;21319”]I was under the impression that any loadout can be gotten with bronze cards. If this is true then the game is p2w and the claim they make is false.
[/quote]

The “best” proxy loadout is a Gold Exclusive: KE53 Elite Operative (Guardian Angel, Drilled, Quick Draw)
[/quote]

You are kidding, right? Useless guardian angle, and a pistol instead of tolen MP? Why have quick-draw if there is no point in switching weapons?

Double time in KE12 is way better already, for maintained super-high mobility. Or R22 if you’re a shotgun fun.

Agree about the other two cards though, ‘get-up’ is an incredibly strong medic perk.

(strychzilla) #20

Thanks Sagan. I didn’t know there were exclusive cards. This makes the game even more P2W than I had initially thought and mentioned on the SD forums. If you only read the alpha posts where they said they would try their best to not make it P2W. Now they’re doing the exact opposite.