[QUOTE=Verticae;354409]http://www.ultravioletproductions.co.uk/
Check out Extinction, and you’ll understand why QW is so much better than Brink. :D[/QUOTE]
Watching this video I get an impression that ET:QW is 100% about duels and has nothing to do with teamplay. Sometimes you revive a teammate so he can go elsewhere and have his own series of duels. At the very best, it looks like Bruce Lee movies: all enemies stupid enough to come one by one instead of simultaneously. Survivor bias ?
so true, and the Aggeressor in general had the scariest guns ever… The Hyper was a DPS god in the right hands and :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_7BMscbUNg The Obliterator had big explosions and long range and insta-kill and then a laser accurate lightning pistol as a side arm. Headshots that blind/induced panic (bunny hopping) and sounded cool!!
Good times indeed! 
Very wrong, Technician doling out stroyent to a hyper weilding Aggressor while an oppressor provides shields and an infiltrator send in flyers drones is so DEADLY.
And a GDF Medic and Ammo train with sniper support and 3rd eye for intel. Sweet.
All about teamwork, buddy. And so many more combinations besides! :oppressor:
[QUOTE=NIDCLXVI;354437]Very wrong, Technician doling out stroyent to a hyper weilding Aggressor while an oppressor provides shields and an infiltrator send in flyers drones is so DEADLY.
And a GDF Medic and Ammo train with sniper support and 3rd eye for intel. Sweet.
All about teamwork, buddy. And so many more combinations besides! :oppressor:[/QUOTE]
Yet no single video highlights these things. Link one if you can. I’m not (just) being an ass, I would gladly see it because I’m tired of fragmovies.
The games may have opportunities for teamwork, but it’s sure as hell it’s not what PC players value the most. If anything, such videos could be renamed to “Teamplay is Futile”. After all, 90% of their duration is “1 guy kills an entire team all by himself”. The remaining 10% is long range skill shots, grenades, panzerfaust etc.
Watch some ETQW.tv videos, and look out for the co-ordinated pushes, distractions by lone wolves to pull the team’s attention away before the team pushes, flanks, feints.
Example that I took two seconds to google for: http://vimeo.com/888171
(Fighting starts at roughly 12 minutes in.)
ETQW’s teamplay isn’t of the PUSH F TO DO TEAMWORK sort, so it’s a bit harder to spot, but also much harder to predict and requires a team to relate to each other in a way on the fly that they can’t autopilot their way through. The commentary should help point it out.
Actually, it is. People generally don’t play objective based class shooters for deathmatching when Quake3/live exists.
Selection bias. Of course a fragmovie isn’t going to focus on teamplay; they’re too busy focusing on frags.
It’s like saying that teamplay doesn’t exist in Brink because all the videos you’ve watched show the character creation screen.
jazevec if you haven’t played ET:QW then in my opinion you have never played a true team based game. Even Brink doesn’t really compare since its emphasis on team is buffing only.
Teamwork in ET:QW is essential if a team since if it is not working together (players switching classes for specific needs like radar) then it gets owned hard. Even complete newbies if they at least team in ET:QW can take on seasoned vets.
The great thing about ET:QW is that you don’t have to stick to a group to help the rest of your team. You can lone wolf as a field op/suppressor or covi op/infiltator (hell even soldier/aggressor) to cause disruption to enemy lines in order to help your team progress or defend objectives.
However if you choose to group you can switch to medic/field ops to provide support for engineers or soldiers guarding specific areas or even as small hit teams. 2 Medic/Soldier/Field Ops is an uber powerful fire team for defence and offense.
Get this my man there are more players on it at the moment then Brink on the PC. Hit me up I’ve actually been going back to ET:QW lately.
I play it, love it. Not played for a few months. Kind of forced myself to play the new games I have bouoght. But I have it installed and raring to go!
Lets all get on “oh My Strogg” or similar!! 
:stroggbanana: :infiltrator: :oppressor:
Bear with me. I’m not quoting this part because I’m lazy (to trim to relevant part), it will make sense later. But I agree that “push F to do teamwork” is a very crude teamplay mechanic, and worse, a distraction.
If that was true, then we would be getting lots of teamplay videos. But no. For as long as I remember, most popular game videos have been kill streaks. This is 5x as likely to be the case if the video is from competitive scene. Clans only release killstreak videos. E-Penis. Want to see a teamplay video, you’re better off watching a random pub footage. You are likely to see people reviving each other, using crossfire, 2x2 and bigger firefights (on killstreak videos it’s always 1 vs 1-6), objectives being completed.
The simple fact of life is that killstreak videos get careful editing, post-processing effects, bombastic/pretentious music, intro animations, looooong credits section (indicating they’re very proud of it). They are also a patchwork of up to 10 seconds long scenes, because that’s how much time killing a team takes. Killstreak videos are celebrated.
Meanwhile there are no videos focusing on teamplay. No one edits videos to highlight teamplay. At best you can get videos of entire matches, complete with 30 minutes of connecting to a server, commentator 1 vs commentator 2 small talk, warmups, alt-tabbing, all associated crap. Raw form.
Why is that kill streaks are celebrated but no one - not that I can remember - creates team videos ? I thought they were team games ? Could it be because, as shirosae says, PC players actually value teamplay more than kill streaks ? The evidence points contrary ! And you use killstreak videos to promote the most team-based games. The primary difference between these videos and random Q3A videos is weapons used.
And if I have, then your entire post is invalid. A wild extrapolation based on unproved assumption. I have played ET:QW.
He asked the question: “if you haven’t”.
As for your question, I am a massive team player, as such I do not care to massage my ego by making videos about my gaming, it is not the kind of person good teamplayers are in the 1st place. At most I post screengrabs on facebook for my “friends” to see, don’t care about “teh interwebz” opinion. So the key type of person to make frag movies is the type of player that wants to say “look at me, look at me, I am awesome, stroke my ego, make my e-peen purr… please…” or the very creative, but target audience driven (know that ego types want to watch “high ego-styled” frag videos).
Just like you dont see many health and safety video virals about how well the HSE would approve, no, you see the accidents. Does not mean a lot of H&S regulations are applied in general…
[QUOTE=NIDCLXVI;354471]He asked the question: “if you haven’t”.
As for your question, I am a massive team player, as such I do not care to massage my ego by making videos about my gaming,[/QUOTE]
Then we’re left in a situation where “great teamplay” supposedly exists but no one can convincingly prove it. It’s rational not to believe in stuff that hasn’t been proven. Nessie, or Flying Spaghetti Monster. If you are talking about something only you can experience - that’s the definition of mysticism.
One thing I like is the screen you get when you die in Counterstrike. The one with top-down view and a tactical view of the situation, fullscreen map. I wonder why it isn’t commonly implemented in other team games. I wonder why clan wars commentators don’t pause the video once in a while, then fly around the map (or zoom out) and show “this guy was here, that one was there, crossfire here, and another one will flank here in 5 seconds”. Even Starcraft (a twitch game with elements of strategy) occasionally gets such commentary.
My opinion - the elephant in the room is that FPS developers default to team-based multiplayer because it’s… simpler and more forgiving. Only half of the server population will shoot you. You will generally spawn surrounded by friendly players. For the same reason many, if not most Quake players favor rocket launcher. You don’t have to aim very well. Plasma Gun in QL takes lots of skill to use effectively - lead the target, compensate for projectile speed, AND keep the enemy in your crosshairs. RL only has you compensate once. RG only requires you to be accurate for a split-second. LG is instahit. PG is likely the hardest to use but no one is raving about it.
Thanks shirosae, that made me laugh. Plus one for the ETTV videos, also uploaded to youtube. Great commentary on some of those. But you don’t even need to watch the highest level play. Teamwork is absolutely essential to ETQW pub play these days because all the players are old hands. They’re certainly not all pro players but, since they know how to work together, if your team isn’t coordinated you’ll get spanked.
However, because there is no overlay reminding players “YOU ARE NOW PERFORMING TEAMWORK” together with buffing bubbles and XP pop-ups it can be harder to spot.
Obviously frag videos are popular for their ego-stroking properties but it also takes a lot more work to create a ‘teamwork video’. You’ll certainly want multiple points of view, which means getting demo files from other people and splicing them together to create a coherent narrative. Also, teamwork actions like repairing deployables/vehicles are pretty boring to watch. 
will do mate. might download tonight
how long will it take me to get all the unlocks etc? i met the wife just after i pre-ordered the game and cancelled it as i stopped playing pc games for a few years.
[QUOTE=Cep;354484]jazevec if you have played it, then why do you care about the videos?
I arr confused![/QUOTE]
Or you just fail at reading comprehension. I start from the assumption that people make game videos about stuff they enjoy the most about a given game. Not too far, fetched, I hope ? But most of videos (vast majority) are kill streak videos. Either a patchwork of “1 guy kills an entire team”, or a long unedited video of a pub star walking around the map killing people. This remains true for so-called team games, not only Q3A.
In such videos, the audio is usually replaced with a music track. As far as I can tell this is done for two reasons:
Moral of the story: people who play team-based FPS care much more about 1 vs 1 duels than teamplay. There’s Rocket Arena mod for them. They will be very vocal when someone says teamplay is not that valued in practive, but then they will continue with kill streak hunt.
I don’t demand much. At least show me a video where two guys are walking around, sticking together, covering, and killing everything. Bonus points if you make VOIP audible.
I think I would learn more about teamwork by listening to a team’s teamspeak/ventrillo channel rather than spectator commentary.
edit:
Whenever someone brings up “medics being too powerful solo”, a.k.a. rambo medics, there’s an outrage. An outrage of players saying “but then the medic will have nothing from it ! Helping others all the time !”. Why do people perceive it this way ? Having healthy teammates around makes you less likely to die. In W:ET, ET:QW, Brink it’s all the same - most pub medics are very selfish and use the majority of medpacks on themselves. Judging by youtube videos, “self revive” is one of most popular abilities in the game. If teamplay is so valued, why most people play medics only to heal themselves ? Why most engineers only buff their own weapon ?
Also, thankfully - the people who can actually kill that effectively don’t make up the majority of players. This is another reason for them making the videos - they often display better general FPS skills than other players, therefore they want to show it off. Crazy kills and soloing simply look better than 4 guys helping each other complete an objective. It’s the reason George Lucas makes films about galactic war, rather than Han Solo taking the Falcon for a quick service and having his tyres checked while he’s there. Although given the quality of Episodes 1, 2 and 3, some people probably wish he had.
Anyhow, how did this thread go from discussing ET:QW to asking the question “how is ET:QW teamplay good when all videos show fragging?”. Don’t you answer that question by playing ET:QW and finding out for yourself, rather than loitering on youtube all day?
…and about VOIP: initially intended for team communication, now 90% of all use is chat. Really, most mic users would be better off on a global VOIP channel, they don’t say anything team-related anyway.
Or you just fail at proper grammar.
Jeez I was only asking you a simply “Why?” there is no need to get bitchy about it ffs. I just wanted some clarification as to why you would be more interested in youtube videos.
Exactly dazman! I can’t understand why he is suggesting that because he can only find frag videos this automatically means there is no team play in the game? 
Apparently my rather simple question touched a nerve since he starts getting tetchy about it.
I’m going to take this at face value, for the moment.
I have 36.2 GB of teamplay video like that I linked to on my harddrive right now (It’s all the ETQW.tv VOD I downloaded). Is that enough?
Why would ETQW clans need to release teamplay footage, when ETQW.tv was releasing footage of all the matches? Plenty of those contain footage recorded from demos shot by the clans themselves.
You seemingly don’t get it, so I’ll try to explain.
Those frag movies you’ve seen by competitive players? All that stuff happened in actual games. With context. Sometimes in ETQWpro, because the players were good and the bullets actually went where people were aiming, a player attempting a distraction or a push or a feint would manage to kill people, and sometimes everything would go right and they’d get a killstreak. And then their team would push just so, and they win, because the strategy empowered by player ability worked.
All of that context gets stripped out in a frag movie. You seem to believe that the competition players run about doing nothing but recording fragmovies all the time. It’s not like that.
If you want to see the teamplay, you need to see the context. That means watching more footage, at a slower pace.
So why are there more frag movies than teamplay videos? Because the average clip in a fragmovie lasts seconds. If you want to see the teamplay happening, you need to take a few minutes for each bit. IE, you need to watch a proper match. Which has already been done! So go watch some ETQW.tv teamplay already.
Actually, you’re better off watching the ETQW.tv videos showing competition that you are now aware of and totally won’t ignore because it doesn’t fit your preconceptions, right? Here’s a ball. Take it back to your court so we can see what you do with it.
So some people like frag movies. And some people like watching teamplay. Teamplay videos need to be much longer, so fitting them onto youtube is tougher, and trying to get pubstars to watch is difficult because it requires effort on their part.
Don’t blame the comp players demonstrating teamplay or the people making videos showing teamplay for the smaller demographic interested in watching teamplay. They’re doing their part.
I have 36.2 GB of teamplay here, 71 videos at roughly 1:40 each long. If you fancy editing that ~120 hours of footage down to fit on youtube, I can try to sort out some hosting to get the footage to you.
Fragmovies can be dumb, blunt instruments, and still show kills. Teamplay videos can’t, because everything you add obscures the cues that the players are relating to to form on-the-fly teamplay. You want teamplay videos in a format that destroys the ability to observe any teamplay.
The evidence points to the contrary, if you ignore the evidence which demonstrates the massive effort by the PC community to create games in which teamplay is rewarded, in which teamplay is recorded, and in which teamplay is the focus of discussion, and in which teamplay determines the winner, and in which teamplay is the reason people watch and play.
Killstreaks are put into crappy youtube videos because they last a few seconds and you don’t need context for them to make sense. Teamplay requires an awareness of the fight, and so an appreciation of teamplay requires it too. Good teamplay videos take a hell of a lot more effort.
And, to be honest, you need a certain level of awareness of the game itself to appreciate teamplay without prompting. Your average Halo player isn’t going to spot the grenade the infiltrator throws about 15 minutes into that video I linked, to cover the technician reviving the aggressor. The commentary is the thing that lets people who aren’t comp players see things they’d otherwise miss.
tl;dr: The full match commentary probably is the best way to see teamplay in ETQWpro. If you think it’s too much effort to go watch some of it, fair enough. Don’t pretend that it doesn’t exist because you don’t want to watch it, though.