Please stop buffing the PDP

(frostyvampire) #1

This weapon doesn’t need a buff.
The point of an auto sniper is to be a sniper that does medium damage per bullet but requires no skill to use and can be spammed. Every update just keeps making it harder to spam but giving it huge damage. That way you don’t get punished for missing, but you do get punished for using it due to the fact you won’t be able to deal high damage.
Can this happen to it please?

-Increase clip size to 12
+You will spawn with 2.5 clips extra (12/30 will be the starting ammo without Spares)
+Increase noscope accuracy by ~40%
+Decrease recoil by ~20%
-Decrease damage to 36 (72 on headshot and 27 on legshot)
-Keep firerate as it is now (don’t do the changes you said you will in the Summer Squash pt2 notes)

Headshot + Bodyshot will do 108 damage, that’s enough to kill 30% of the mercs and will gib 100% of the mercs
2 headshots will do 144 damage, only Rhino and Thunder can survive this
A single headshot won’t kill anyone but it will still do heavy damage and force the enemy to fall back and heal
By increasing noscope accuracy you will also be able to use it in close range, which is something that MOA and FEL-IX can’t do.

You don’t have to use the exact values that I listed, but the point is to make it a spammy but accurate long range weapon and will be unable to insta kill players.

(watsyurdeal) #2

Wait until the new iteration comes out first, the new rof is SLOWER than current, forcing you to be more accurate when using it.

(frostyvampire) #3

@Watsyurdeal
It’s still gonna be an OP noskill, low risk, very high reward.
It doesn’t serve the point of auto snipers, it’s supposed to be a low skill spammy weapon but with low reward.
What’s the point of an auto sniper that you can’t spam with but you still don’t need skill to use it and get rewarded so much?

Grandeur is the high skill auto sniper, which only needs a proper scope to become balanced (after they decrease the spread). PDP is more rewarding and requires less skill so why would anyone use Grandeur?

(watsyurdeal) #4

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202199”]@Watsyurdeal
It’s still gonna be an OP noskill, low risk, very high reward.
It doesn’t serve the point of auto snipers, it’s supposed to be a low skill spammy weapon but with low reward.
What’s the point of an auto sniper that you can’t spam with but you still don’t need skill to use it and get rewarded so much?

Grandeur is the high skill auto sniper, which only needs a proper scope to become balanced (after they decrease the spread). PDP is more rewarding and requires less skill so why would anyone use Grandeur?[/quote]

Are you serious???

Look at her kit

The Snitch increases damage by 25%, the new base damage will be 50. So, normal headshots will deal 100 damage, enough to kill most Medics except one. Snitch Headshots will deal 126 damage, able to kill anything except Fragger, Thunder, and Rhino.

The PDP will have more damage done in a short period of time, but still retain the same dps, and a slightly longer time to kill if you’re not going for headshots. The longer fire rate means that you have to actually aim your shots, you can’t get away with just tapping away at the body to get the kill anymore.

The fact that you call the Grandeur higher skill, when it has a higher rate of fire and can dish out more pain more quickly, really contradicts your argument here, and comes off as bias toward the PDP more than anything else. How is the PDP the lower skill weapon here when it’s rate of fire is less, has less ammo, requires to be scoped in, and a bunch of other drawbacks?

And note, I don’t think the Grandeur is op in the slightest, hell I’d give up a little damage for a good sight. But to basically say the PDP is so op in this new form, when the Grandeur can be hipfired, kill most people in 2 headshots, and assuming good aim, can actually kill people quicker, I just have to say, WHAT?

The only thing the PDP has it’s instant kills, and once the Grandeur doesn’t have that it will have a clear role in the meta here. I actually prefer that distinction to be quite honest.

Make the PDP capable of instant kills, keep lowering it’s rate of fire if needed.

(BananaSlug) #5

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202199”]
Grandeur is the high skill auto sniper, which only needs a proper scope to become balanced (after they decrease the spread). PDP is more rewarding and requires less skill so why would anyone use Grandeur?[/quote]

ooh fuck off with this, this weapon has 100% hip-fire accuracy and 40dmg, what else do you want? git gut

and devs wont do shit like that, they know what this weapon is supposed to be, just wait, they are going to nerf it a bit every balance update

(hoyes) #6

This is more of a ‘balance’ than a buff. You get the ability to one shot phoenix( and skyhammer with the Snitch), but there is now more penalty for missing, as the fire rate is now slower and the mag is smaller. I think it will be in a good place once this is implemented. The grandeur is sometimes great, sometimes horrible. I feel that they should buff its ROF ever so slightly again, so there is more incentive to use its crap ironsights.

(Dysfnal) #7

@Watsyurdeal the Grandeur is certainly not 100% accurate from the hip, not to mention is has really bad iron sights (which I find to be fine tbh, it’s not meant to be used ADS). I personally think they should give both the PDP and the Grandeur equal damage, (adjust ROF as necessary) the mechanics are plenty to differentiate them, and make the Felix a high damage semi automatic sniper (just like it’s rl counterpart) to set it apart from the MOA.

EDIT: the Felix should not have a high ROF or easily managed recoil either

(frostyvampire) #8

@Dysfnal
So you want to turn the amazing bolt action FEL-IX into a crappy auto noob? If this happens Aimee will become useless and Vassili will be the only sniper that is viable in competitive.
Auto snipers are OP because of the no skill but high reward but bolt actions will still be better in competitive. There’s usually only 1 squishy merc on each team (if any)

You can’t turn an amazing gun into crap for no reason. Sure it’s not as good as the MOA but it’s still an amazing gun
MOA > FEL-IX >> Grandeur > PDP (in competitive)
By turning the FEL-IX into auto noob it will be MOA >> Anything else.
Also it is gonna screw up all the people who crafted a bunch of cards trying to get FEL-IX Aimee which isn’t fair (like my 4 tradeups/tradeins, I unboxed F82 after the tradeups/ins but that wasn’t expected to happen. If FEL-IX were an auto noob I would never even go for a cobalt Aimee)

FEL-IX needs a buff and not a nerf (yes, turning it into auto is a nerf), somebody made a thread on the weapon discussion forum about the FEL-IX vs MOA changes, you should check it out.

(Dysfnal) #9

That’s why I recommended replacing the Fel-ix in Aimee’s loadouts with the MOA, and buffing it to 79 damage.

The problem is that the Fel-ix is redundant. It has no reason to be in this game, and I’m trying to change that, it is entirely possible to have a higher skilled semi automatic sniper, just add unpredictable horizontal and vertical recoil and it becomes harder to use, and can still be rewarding.

I don’t know about you, but I would definitely take a semi auto 60 damage sniper over the MOA, I would find it more versatile

(neverplayseriou) #10

"Grandeur is the high skill auto sniper, which only needs a proper scope to become balanced (after they decrease the spread). "

that’s pretty much how to make a weapon even more op, the grandeur already deals way to much damage for the skill it requires.

“Vassili will be the only sniper that is viable in competitive.”

what competitive? this game has no comp scene.

(frostyvampire) #11

@Dysfnal
I honestly prefer if we had no auto snipers at all, just like in tf2.
1 auto noob was fine. I don’t mind the Grandeur because it has no scope and low damage (maybe they can lower the damage but it’s still pretty low). Auto snipers in general should never be able to 1 shot targets, don’t even think about suggesting a 60 damage auto noob.

@neverplayserious
Well we can’t tell until we see it ingame. If it turns out too OP they can always lower the Grandeur damage to 36 (like the PDP should be)

DB has ranked gamemode and there are cups once every month and even if you don’t count this, it WILL have better competitive in the future when the game grows big and is out of beta. Bolt action snipers will forever be the best if you are good. Auto noobs are made for noobs that just got into the game and wanna practice their aim, they will play 2 weeks with auto, get good and then finally switch to MOA or FEL-IX

(Dysfnal) #12

a 60 damage auto sniper would have to have a very low ROF, because it can one shot most of the cast. It would be more forgiving than the MOA, but by no means would be a noob weapon. It would be a middle ground between the PDP, which IS oriented toward lower skill players, and the MOA, which is the highest level of play

(frostyvampire) #13

@Dysfnal
If you make it 60 damage it will be able to kill anyone with 1 shot except Fragger, Thunder and Rhino and MOA can only 1 shot Fragger out of those 3.
By making it fire faster, you make it a noob gun because 1 merc is not worth the decreased fire rate.

Auto snipers should never do more than 50 damage. If PDP becomes 36 damage then MAYBE we can get an ultra high recoil and very slow fire rate auto with 50 damage.
OR if MOA does 300 damage on headshot and that will be OP

(Dysfnal) #14

I see what you mean, perhaps 55 would be better, but the PDP should deal 40 max.

If the Felix does 50 damage, it won’t be good enough, and the MOA will be the only sniper for high levels of play

(frostyvampire) #15

@Dysfnal
You can’t make an auto sniper that will be viable in high levels without making it OP.
Auto snipers will always be snipers for new players in pubs. If you make an auto sniper viable in competitive, you will have to make it completely overpowered. This is why the FEL-IX can’t turn into an auto sniper.
If you make it 50 damage, it will be OP in pubs but still not good enough in high levels, if you make it 55 it will be too overpowered because it will be able to 1 shot over 50% of the mercs (any non-assault mercs and non-fire support except Kira).
This is why an auto sniper can’t become a competitive weapon

(gseijn) #16

i67.tinypic.com/2ds2xrb.jpg

As you can see I have a ton of experience with the Grandeur as it is my favorite weapon. The only thing I believe holds it back is it’s ROF (Rate of Fire), it’s too slow. It was absolutely fine at 200 rpm. I like the iron sight and feel bullet spread was better before and so was the high recoil.

People fire from the hip way to much, I hardly ever fire from the hip. If you ads you can rapid fire that bad boy and never have to worry about the bullet spread, moreover the recoil just takes a little time to get use to. IMO there was nothing wrong with it when it was first introduced. Now that the ROF is so low it really impedes it’s killing potential.

At close/medium range it’s going to loose against a decent opponent, because the time it takes to fire off three shots to get a kill (that’s IF you do not miss) you’re going to be dead. People will say that "All you need it two head shots) but in a close range fight against decent players, it’s WAY easier said than done.

I know I really bitch a lot about this but I can’t help it. Since I’ve spent so much time really enjoying the weapon the entire time with 200 rpm only to have it lowered to 180 rpm. I suppose I just have to deal with it or use the Dreiss more often.

(frostyvampire) #17

@gseijn
Grandeur is still a great weapon. But don’t forget it’s an auto sniper, just without a scope

Auto snipers are not made for competitive, they are a huge disadvantage against bolt action against good players. Nor Redeye because his bad spotting ability, but let’s not talk about him in this thread

If they increase Grandeur’s rate of fire, it might become too OP. Making it bolt action would be stupid and make no sense (unless it gets a scope).
The Grandeur just needs a proper scope (something like AUG from csgo) and it will be balanced.
In close range fights you will always lose, the weapon isn’t made for close range fights. It’s a sniper rifle. Give me one sniper that excels at close range combat (Widow’s Kiss doesn’t count because it turns into full auto).
In mid range I disagree about losing all the time, you will take damage but you can still kill the enemy before they get you. I suggest you practicing a close range fight with a friend where they use a rifle and you will use the Grandeur until you master it

(gseijn) #18

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
Grandeur is still a great weapon.[/quote]

I think it’s a good weapon but not great with such low rof.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
Auto snipers are not made for competitive[/quote]

Says who? I could easily use that gun in the highest competitive games with 200 rpm, I’ve done it.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
they are a huge disadvantage against bolt action against good players.[/quote]

Now it is because of its low ROF. When the ROF was higher I could easily compete with bolt action snipers.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
Nor Redeye because his bad spotting ability[/quote]

His spotting ability is the best in the game. SD is nerfing it because they think it’s OP.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
If they increase Grandeur’s rate of fire, it might become too OP. [/quote]

No it wont. SD originally had the ROF 225 rpm, then they dropped it to 200 rpm and NOBODY was calling it OP. Quite the opposite really, everyone thought it was a shit rifle and hardly anyone used it. They hated the recoil, bullet spread and it’s iron sights.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
Making it bolt action would be stupid and make no sense (unless it gets a scope).[/quote]

I agree with you 100% on this.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
The Grandeur just needs a proper scope (something like AUG from csgo) and it will be balanced.[/quote]

Now that is false in my opinion. It has perfectly fine iron sights. I’ve never once had a problem with it. It takes a little time to get familiar with. Most people don’t like it right off the bat and don’t want to take the bumps and bruises in becoming skilled with it.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
In close range fights you will always lose, the weapon isn’t made for close range fights. It’s a sniper rifle. Give me one sniper that excels at close range combat (Widow’s Kiss doesn’t count because it turns into full auto).[/quote]

Again, I have to disagree. It’s more of a battle rifle where Redeye can stay closer to the action, more so than vassili. I’ve had good success at close/medium ranges with the grandeur before the 200 rpm drop.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/357275885710330459/D17FBBD4225BEB5913A5AAAE3A0A1D8979FE2547/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|2048:1152&composite-to%3D*%2C*|2048%3A1152&background-color=black[/img

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311115258968197110/40F7AC0DE29779C21FF000465AA5496EF4EF3916/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|2048:1152&composite-to%3D*%2C*|2048%3A1152&background-color=black

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311115898932341646/68EAD29E8110C76DFCEEC4A0952EF341616F3582/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|2048:1152&composite-to%3D*%2C*|2048%3A1152&background-color=black

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/311117801424265460/8696EE672F633009DC28FEBC5732E43AAD91D69F/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|2048:1152&composite-to%3D*%2C*|2048%3A1152&background-color=black

If the pics are too small just right click and open in new tab to see a larger image. I have quite a few more to make the case that close to medium range with the high recoil, iron sights, high bullet spread with 200 rpm was able to excel with no problem.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
In mid range I disagree about losing all the time, you will take damage but you can still kill the enemy before they get you.[/quote]

I agree, that one can still get kills but it is SO much more difficult. When playing players that have a decent shot, one is now more than likely to loose.

[quote=“FrostyVampire;202881”]@gseijn
I suggest you practicing a close range fight with a friend where they use a rifle and you will use the Grandeur until you master it[/quote]

If you saw the amount of time I’ve spent using that gun I’ve tried. Look at how much practice I’ve had using that weapon. That’s a ridiculous amount of time.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/255965188114444915/F021B5EAB7A21294BD54D0E54C14D697276B2841/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|2048:1152&composite-to%3D*%2C*|2048%3A1152&background-color=black

I did master it before but now with the ROF it’s very difficult. My ability has not changed from before just the ROF and I’ve seen noticeable differences not to mention my overall accuracy with the weapon dropped post ROF nerf.

(watsyurdeal) #19

Honestly I don’t think the Grandeur needs it’s higher rate of fire back, it just needs consistent hipfire and decent sights. I can only use them due to the mumble crosshair, but without that hitting shots consistently is difficult.

Something like this would be perfect for it


That and, DPS on the gun already outclasses the Burst Rifles and Assault Rifles.

Grandeur 160
Dreiss 162
BR 16 153
Stark 144
M4 140
Timik 140

These were all calculated by getting the maximum possible shots I could fire in under a second with each gun, then multiplying that by the damage they deal.

Grandeur: 1000/333 = 3 + 1 = 4, 4 * 40
Dreiss: 1000/200 = 5 + 1 = 6, 6 * 27
BR 16: 1000/367 = 3 bursts , 9 * 17
Stark: 1000/400 = 2 bursts, + 2 more bullets, 8 * 18
M4: 1000/112 = 9 + 1 = 10, 10 * 14
Timik: 1000/109 = 9 + 1 = 10, 10 * 14

If the Grandeur did less damage, it’s dps would probably be ok, and really the Grandeur doesn’t need to able to one shot Aura, that’s just a little bit overboard imo.

(gseijn) #20

Just look at this video to get a good idea how the ROF was pre nerf.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UJVQXq1pJEs

0:13 - 0:20
0:35 - 0:38
0:50 - 0:54 ----> best one.
1:32 - 1:42 ---->Very good
2:11 - 2:16 ----> Another good example

I didn’t even need to watch more than three minutes to find good examples.