Please Premade vs Premade only in Casual (Quick Match)

[BloodySin]

@watsyurdeal said:
Considering that Wolfenstein Enemy Territory was free, I doubt that will be much of an issue, besides, if it really is then you could put a paywall for it. I’d pay 20 bucks for that luxury.
Never played that. Was its business model based pretty much solely on anything alike the cards and skins we have on Dirty Bomb, though? Paying 20 bucks once also doesn’t seems to be their aim with this game, but to milk people who open their wallets at every event, something allowing community-ran servers and mods would work against.

[nokiII]

@BloodySin said:

@watsyurdeal said:
Considering that Wolfenstein Enemy Territory was free, I doubt that will be much of an issue, besides, if it really is then you could put a paywall for it. I’d pay 20 bucks for that luxury.
Never played that. Was its business model based pretty much solely on anything alike the cards and skins we have on Dirty Bomb, though? Paying 20 bucks once also doesn’t seems to be their aim with this game, but to milk people who open their wallets at every event, something allowing community-ran servers and mods would work against.

ET was free not f2p.

[BloodySin]

@nokiII said:
ET was free not f2p.
Well, that makes it even less of a valid example to compare then, it’s nowhere the same business model, but one where there was no generated income based on selling characters and cosmetic stuff.

[watsyurdeal]

@BloodySin said:

@nokiII said:
ET was free not f2p.
Well, that makes it even less of a valid example to compare then, it’s nowhere the same business model, but one where there was no generated income based on selling characters and cosmetic stuff.

The point wasn’t income, the point is that people will come flocking to your game if you give them the right tools and support to do so.

You can make that argument about Counter Strike as well, but you can’t use your skins or mercs outside the server that has that exact mod. So it’d be kinda pointless to have a server that does that, more so it’d be easy to add a wall to block off that kind of content that can be modded.

[Sairdontis]

So just abandon the official servers seems to be what your saying is the answer? Many modded games have terrible mods that glitch anyway. And community run servers would be exploited even more in that the admin could just stack the teams manually.

[watsyurdeal]

I never said that, I said that we just need community ran servers. That means people choose where they wanna play and who they wanna play with. And Ranked should be the only match making we get.

[M4st0d0n]

@watsyurdeal said:
I never said that, I said that we just need community ran servers. That means people choose where they wanna play and who they wanna play with. And Ranked should be the only match making we get.

Game is old enough for this to happen IMO. But players expect matchmakers and casual and comp modes in any games now. But yeah. I guess we’ll see how it wraps up.

[pumpkinmeerkat]

If high level five person parties end up queuing in ranked for 1+ hours how is CMM going to find a fair and balanced match using skill based MMR for the same group of players in minutes?

[BloodySin]

@pumpkinmeerkat said:
If high level five person parties end up queuing in ranked for 1+ hours how is CMM going to find a fair and balanced match using skill based MMR for the same group of players in minutes?
The amount of players in casual matches is much higher than those in ranked. Not saying that will make it be automatic, but likely faster. Still, its not lower levels who should be burdened with imbalanced matches because too few high levels are playing.

[watsyurdeal]

@BloodySin said:

@pumpkinmeerkat said:
If high level five person parties end up queuing in ranked for 1+ hours how is CMM going to find a fair and balanced match using skill based MMR for the same group of players in minutes?
The amount of players in casual matches is much higher than those in ranked. Not saying that will make it be automatic, but likely faster. Still, its not lower levels who should be burdened with imbalanced matches because too few high levels are playing.

The matches would be imbalanced in some way regardless, cause someone is gonna have mercs the other don’t, it could be a veteran shooter player playing Dirty Bomb for the first time, the new player may have cards the other’s don’t, etc

This is why matchmaking for a casual setting is terrible, and only really works for ranked, where there is a base line standard set before you’re allowed to play it.

That, and why I rather have a simpler system than levels, like have designations like Private, Officer, Lieutenant, etc to represent a general idea of how long someone has been playing.

[BloodySin]

@watsyurdeal said:
The matches would be imbalanced in some way regardless, cause someone is gonna have mercs the other don’t, it could be a veteran shooter player playing Dirty Bomb for the first time, the new player may have cards the other’s don’t, etc

This is why matchmaking for a casual setting is terrible, and only really works for ranked, where there is a base line standard set before you’re allowed to play it.

The fact there are other factors that can potentially cause imbalance doesn’t means no action should be taken about one of them when it’s possible to.

[watsyurdeal]

@BloodySin said:

@watsyurdeal said:
The matches would be imbalanced in some way regardless, cause someone is gonna have mercs the other don’t, it could be a veteran shooter player playing Dirty Bomb for the first time, the new player may have cards the other’s don’t, etc

This is why matchmaking for a casual setting is terrible, and only really works for ranked, where there is a base line standard set before you’re allowed to play it.

The fact there are other factors that can potentially cause imbalance doesn’t means no action should be taken about one of them when it’s possible to.

It does when the solution ultimate degrades the game experience as a whole, and there’s a tried and true alternative that has existed since PC gaming multiplayer first came about.

Matchmaking only works for a competitive team play environment, for casual play it just pits people with those who are vastly out of their league or have some sort of perceived unfairness.

I’ll give you as basic of an explanation I can, why do you think Call of Duty on PC stopped being so popular after World at War? Matchmaking only, with no community servers. Why do you think games like Titanfall and Battlefront lost their audience? Why do you think Frontlines Fuel of War bombed on PC?

This is not an over the top concept, PC players like being able to choose the experience they want, offering community ran servers for pub play, and matchmaking for ranked mode, or as a pseudo competitive mode adds to that choice, and only benefits the game’s longevity and player retention.

[BloodySin]

@watsyurdeal said:
PC players like being able to choose the experience they want
And PC players seem to want to choose the experience of casual matchmaking so they can play with their friends, create groups that work well together and maybe get paired with players of similar levels for at least some amount of balance. The only “degrading” I can see from that is salty high level players annoyed with not getting matches as often as newbies, a problem that occurs because many newbies don’t stick around long when their experience so often is getting trampled by high levels and being insulted when their team loses.

I get that you seem to want to preach about community ran servers at every opportunity - up to fabricating the opportunity - but I see that as much more detrimental to a game that doesn’t has a solid footing in the market or a large stable playerbase, while not really doing anything to address balance, just allowing for some “create your own balance” scenario.

[watsyurdeal]

@BloodySin said:

@watsyurdeal said:
PC players like being able to choose the experience they want
And PC players seem to want to choose the experience of casual matchmaking so they can play with their friends, create groups that work well together and maybe get paired with players of similar levels for at least some amount of balance. The only “degrading” I can see from that is salty high level players annoyed with not getting matches as often as newbies, a problem that occurs because many newbies don’t stick around long when their experience so often is getting trampled by high levels and being insulted when their team loses.

I get that you seem to want to preach about community ran servers at every opportunity - up to fabricating the opportunity - but I see that as much more detrimental to a game that doesn’t has a solid footing in the market or a large stable playerbase, while not really doing anything to address balance, just allowing for some “create your own balance” scenario.

Really? Cause the opposite seems to be true, a simple search reviews a number of PC players showing disdain for matchmaking only, or any game that has a matchmaking only as a deal breaker for them. Not only that, but look at the most popular multiplayer games on Steam, with the exception of Grand Theft Auto 5, all of those games have a server browser option, and a way for players to host their own servers.

You do not grasp that the PC community, and the reason they prefer PC, is that they CAN choose their own experience, the fact you can customize your graphics and other options makes this blatantly obvious.

[BloodySin]

@watsyurdeal said:
Really? Cause the opposite seems to be true, a simple search reviews a number of PC players showing disdain for matchmaking only, or any game that has a matchmaking only as a deal breaker for them. Not only that, but look at the most popular multiplayer games on Steam, with the exception of Grand Theft Auto 5, all of those games have a server browser option, and a way for players to host their own servers.

You do not grasp that the PC community, and the reason they prefer PC, is that they CAN choose their own experience, the fact you can customize your graphics and other options makes this blatantly obvious.
This is Dirty Bomb and Dirty Bomb players. I’m talking about Dirty Bomb and Dirty Bomb players’ requests. Also, what’s your source for talking like server browser is going to vanish? All I’ve seen is Casual Matchmaking replacing the “Quick Join,” nothing else.

I grasp perfectly that the PC community likes to choose the experience, but you seem to not grasp that not everyone in the PC community wants to pick your choice.

[pumpkinmeerkat]

@BloodySin no player at any skill level should have to wait excessive amounts of time for a casual match.

[BloodySin]

@pumpkinmeerkat said:
@BloodySin no player at any skill level should have to wait excessive amounts of time for a casual match.
That should come from enough players of all skill levels being around, not at the expense of low level ones so high levels can have their fun.

[pumpkinmeerkat]

@BloodySin said:
That should come from enough players of all skill levels being around

Exactly the concern I am raising.

[BloodySin]

@pumpkinmeerkat said:
Exactly the concern I am raising.
I get that. I’m just raising the other side of the coin - you can’t just please high levels by burdening the newbies. The newbies won’t stick around to become high levels like that, as seems to already have been the case for a long while (read somewhere in the Forums that most players get to level 10 or so and don’t come back, or something like that?). I don’t think that’s because the game is a bad shooter or doesn’t has a lot of potential for fun. It’s not really “pay-to-win,” as you can get all loadouts in Bronze with credits, so that wouldn’t be a reason to quit. On the other hand, having way too many matches be very one-sided, with at times a single player from a team being of a level higher than the sum of levels of the whole opposition, seems to be raised very often, which leads me to believe that has a quite high probability of being the cause.

[watsyurdeal]

@BloodySin said:

@pumpkinmeerkat said:
Exactly the concern I am raising.
I get that. I’m just raising the other side of the coin - you can’t just please high levels by burdening the newbies. The newbies won’t stick around to become high levels like that, as seems to already have been the case for a long while (read somewhere in the Forums that most players get to level 10 or so and don’t come back, or something like that?). I don’t think that’s because the game is a bad shooter or doesn’t has a lot of potential for fun. It’s not really “pay-to-win,” as you can get all loadouts in Bronze with credits, so that wouldn’t be a reason to quit. On the other hand, having way too many matches be very one-sided, with at times a single player from a team being of a level higher than the sum of levels of the whole opposition, seems to be raised very often, which leads me to believe that has a quite high probability of being the cause.

That is going to happen regardless of which approach we take, the difference between waiting to find a match, and simply choosing a server, means one takes time to do, and may not be perfect, while the other, allows to drop in and out where ever you want, and the server name allows you to figure out what kind of experience you can expect.

Having clan ran servers like from OCB or some of the others here, would really help player retention.

A system takes 15 mins to find a match because you’re playing with your friends will not.