Please fix Client to Client Accuracy aswell as Deathcam!

(Smokahontas) #21

I also had that problem many times in the past days, weeks. Trying to revive, nothing is happening… and not to mention all the other stuff, which wasn’t fixed yet (broken lobbies when you want to play matchmaking, random gamecrashes, weird lag-spikes and so many other bugs). For a while i thought it is getting better, but i have the feeling that the last patches made it even worse and not to mention that the matchmaking lobbies are filling up with a lot of cheaters again. Yesterday for example i played 3 competetive matches, in each there was a different cheater. It takes half an hour or more to finally join a not bugged lobby and then you face them. I am seriously getting tired of all these bugs and other things.

(Amerika) #22

Useless? Quite often top teams from NA play teams from EU. And many players in both NA and EU ping 120+ to a server on the other side of the continent to them. I would hardly call that useless. The small issues you have with higher ping players due to the antilag is a small price to pay for all of us having rather smooth games regardless of where we are geographically or how badly our ISP routes us.

The deathcam being slightly off in these situations or sometimes kill trading is a tiny tiny price to pay for having this smooth play that almost no other game has IMO.

Also, Q3 didn’t have any type of lag compensation. IIRC, the tournament mod OSP developed prediction based netcode that helped smooth out play so that if you had an 80 or 90 ping you could still compete where in VQ3 you were boned if you didn’t have a 40ms or below ping. RA3 and Threewave soon adopted similar netcode.

(misspo) #23

Useless? Quite often top teams from NA play teams from EU. And many players in both NA and EU ping 120+ to a server on the other side of the continent to them. I would hardly call that useless. The small issues you have with higher ping players due to the antilag is a small price to pay for all of us having rather smooth games regardless of where we are geographically or how badly our ISP routes us.

The deathcam being slightly off in these situations or sometimes kill trading is a tiny tiny price to pay for having this smooth play that almost no other game has IMO.

Also, Q3 didn’t have any type of lag compensation. IIRC, the tournament mod OSP developed prediction based netcode that helped smooth out play so that if you had an 80 or 90 ping you could still compete where in VQ3 you were boned if you didn’t have a 40ms or below ping. RA3 and Threewave soon adopted similar netcode.[/quote]
Hi,
i know that dev are working on a better spectator mod to help caster doing a better job.
But it’s a wast of time if your spectator mod is laggy and doesn’t represent at least 90% of the reality. How a game can become popular to watch if you watch people always missing their shots? The funniest thing is watching a sniper in spectator. Even on a static object, they fire like 3 meters away from the target. Of what i know, UE can do a better job than this.

(Amerika) #24

@peridotLava Did you quote the wrong person?

(B_Montiel) #25

Useless? Quite often top teams from NA play teams from EU. And many players in both NA and EU ping 120+ to a server on the other side of the continent to them. I would hardly call that useless. The small issues you have with higher ping players due to the antilag is a small price to pay for all of us having rather smooth games regardless of where we are geographically or how badly our ISP routes us.

The deathcam being slightly off in these situations or sometimes kill trading is a tiny tiny price to pay for having this smooth play that almost no other game has IMO.
[/quote]

So, in your opinion, we should better trade UE3 netcode qualities, for some intercontinental games ? I’m really surprised you can’t consider for granted that intercontinental games are something a bit weird in a such fast paced game.

I agree that the game runs smoothly. But what I mean is, it could be better. Way better, considering what the engine is capable of. UE3’s netcode (IF tuned well) is possibly one of the best I’ve ever encountered recently. In this game, it clearly feels like it is used at 25%.

I don’t know, I feel like being on an other planet. If big comp games like cs:go, dota 2, lol and even starcraft 2 put strong efforts into reducing and tuning anti-lag effects as much as possible, thus forcing players to play regionally, that’s for a reason. Not only for the players will inevitably suffer from the generated issues, but also for people who are watching and clearly expect actions to happen in a smoother way than old cs does. In 2015, nobody would imagine a climax ended by a shot-through-wall due to antilag effects in any cs:go comp game.
To me, the game and the netcode have all the necessary qualities to improve the overall game experience, but it almost looks like a COD game hosted by a player instead.

(Ghosthree3) #26

Personally I’d scrap compensation and have the game play out like Quake. High ping is lame to play with and against anyway, you lose the ability to compete world wide but frankly there’s already a big enough disadvantage that it’s not worth doing anyway.

(Amerika) #27

Useless? Quite often top teams from NA play teams from EU. And many players in both NA and EU ping 120+ to a server on the other side of the continent to them. I would hardly call that useless. The small issues you have with higher ping players due to the antilag is a small price to pay for all of us having rather smooth games regardless of where we are geographically or how badly our ISP routes us.

The deathcam being slightly off in these situations or sometimes kill trading is a tiny tiny price to pay for having this smooth play that almost no other game has IMO.
[/quote]

So, in your opinion, we should better trade UE3 netcode qualities, for some intercontinental games ? I’m really surprised you can’t consider for granted that intercontinental games are something a bit weird in a such fast paced game.

I agree that the game runs smoothly. But what I mean is, it could be better. Way better, considering what the engine is capable of. UE3’s netcode (IF tuned well) is possibly one of the best I’ve ever encountered recently. In this game, it clearly feels like it is used at 25%.

I don’t know, I feel like being on an other planet. If big comp games like cs:go, dota 2, lol and even starcraft 2 put strong efforts into reducing and tuning anti-lag effects as much as possible, thus forcing players to play regionally, that’s for a reason. Not only for the players will inevitably suffer from the generated issues, but also for people who are watching and clearly expect actions to happen in a smoother way than old cs does. In 2015, nobody would imagine a climax ended by a shot-through-wall due to antilag effects in any cs:go comp game.
To me, the game and the netcode have all the necessary qualities to improve the overall game experience, but it almost looks like a COD game hosted by a player instead.[/quote]

It’s a matter of perspective. You are acting as if there are huge problems with the netcode currently when players who ping the same play each other. There isn’t. Most of the time when you see issues it’s because somebody does have a high ping which can cause the issues I’ve outlined. However, that’s pretty rare and most of the time it doesn’t really affect the game. It does, however, allow players to play on the East coast of the US vs. the West coast and the same for EU. It allows for some AUS players to play on the Asia servers I believe.

I honestly can’t think of a reason to make the games worse for more people when currently the games are pretty stellar overall. And this is coming from somebody who is EXTREMELY picky about netcode and hit registration as I have been playing Q3/Qlive competitively for 15 years and I’ve seen how good/bad many games have been since then in regards to hit registration and allowing players to play at higher pings. Dirty Bomb has been one of the best in that department. It’s not perfect when you have 150 ping but it’s barely noticeable overall by any players involved. As long as players aren’t warping due to packet loss or rubber banding pings that cant’ be compensated for it’s pretty smooth.

Getting “shot through the wall” is extremely rare even when playing out of your region. And mostly it’s attributed to death cam bugs. I think you’re overreacting and actually trying to make the game worse for a lot more players than you think.

(Ghosthree3) #28

I definitely agree this game has some off the best netcode and hitreg I’ve ever seen. Honestly only Quake really beats it from recent memory, perhaps there were other games in the past.

150 ping is noticeable though, I’ve played on the Asia servers a couple of times since competitive MM wouldn’t find any games in Aus and honestly it’s enough to make me not want to play there again. I hate feeling lagged, it’s absolutely disgusting.

(Amerika) #29

I play on EU pretty often at around 150 ping. I find very little difference in it other than kill messages are lagged slightly, trades happen slightly more often and wall jumping can sometimes be a bit hitchy where your camera does a weird waggle. Hit registration feels completely normal though (which makes sense due to how it’s implemented).

And Q3, at the levels i’m used to playing at, starts reaching unplayable at around 80ms. You get a distinct disadvantage with the lightning gun past 40ms. DB is pretty smooth and playable all the way up to 150 ping with little change in how fights go.

I’m all for making things better. I just don’t see how reducing the anti-lag will make anything other than superficial things that are associated with other known bugs better.

(Ghosthree3) #30

Bullet hitreg is fine on the 150 ping, but is notably delayed. What’s really annoying is trying to use projectiles though. And medpacks - especially from Sparks - lol don’t even try to hit your allies, not a chance. Grenades are pretty lame too, it feels like it takes twice as long to throw them.

I agree with your opinions regarding ping in Q3, 80 does seem the limit, and it’s still gross for rockets etc.

(Amerika) #31

Haha, those Sparks packs are impossible to hit regardless of the ping you have. The devs really need to give her med packs the same hitbox as Sawbonez while keeping the same visual size. It would make things easier on everyone.

(B_Montiel) #32

Sorry if I can’t emphasize my thoughts as intended, I’m not English native and I’m trying to highlight very specific points that seems neglected to me. It’s hard to put in words. If you think I’m overreacting, then do so. But I really experience those issues, and I’m not talking about the death cam. You can go far in 150ms, especially in dirty bomb. 150ms is the time necessary for a client info to go on another if both have 75ms pings. I can’t count how often I dive 3m behind a corner and still got shot. I’ve experienced MM on East NA servers, and that’s something that can’t be regarded as a nice competitive experience. Dirty Bomb can’t afford to have such delayed actions like proper shot-through-walls and such wide kill trading windows.

I completely understand the issue for AUS players. But except that, that sounds to me like a band-aid for the lack of players issues there were (still are in some regions obviously).

Adding things in a stew with bad base ingredients barely improve the final product. Putting things to counter the effects of something called TIME is always wobbly. I know that this may improve the game for some people, but this puts the game in very low standards in terms of netcode compared to what is achievable with UE3. Again, chivalry medieval warfare was coded with feets compared to DB and the overall results was better because the anti-lag was locked to 120. I’d way prefer to have overall improvements, including making sure the player base is high enough in any region, then limit the ping and make the anti-lag way narrower. I’m sure, once the player base issues are solved, that this will improve the greatly game for everyone, from noob to comp 1337s, with the sole drawback of limiting the players to a region.

(Ghosthree3) #33

Yeah I get soooo frustrated trying to heal people with those meds. It’s like people try to dodge you. I had a guy earlier on 10%, I dropped my entire load - 4 medpacks - around him and even though I’m sure he saw me drop them he stops for a second then runs off into the enemy…???

Why do I even try.

EDIT: This was about Sparks’ medpacks but a post sneaked in between the relevant post and this one.

(Amerika) #34

I probably have 50+ hours played at 150ping. I do not get shot through walls as you state in my experience. If you get killed, especially when jumping, you still have momentum. And it’s exaggerated a bit when at a higher ping. Many people mistake this momentum for them being around a corner when they were shot when in reality they were not. This is also a slight side effect of client side hit registration (which is why hit registration in this game is so good).

I should go play for a couple of hours at 150 ping and upload it to YouTube and keep track of the amount of times I get “shot through walls”.

(Ghosthree3) #35

Australia has to be the smallest region and it has by far enough players to support itself and then some. Wouldn’t hurt to tune the compensation down to at least 200/150.

(RuleofBooKz) #36

i dont see why it need be over 100. really u should not be playing a fast paced FPS with a ping over 100

client side hit registration is also not a magic bullet solution for high pings as we found out during closed beta.

(B_Montiel) #37

One thing worth mentioning : good quality game experience may differ from the region. I’m French, and I usually play with players who are located less than 1500/2000km from the server. I don’t know anything about the broadband quality in the US but having a 75 ping in Europe is almost considered bad. Hence a silly conflict with Russian players in some other games where they have no other choices but to come on European servers. When I play with 150+ms, I feel like fragger’s head is harder to hit than proxy’s one with a regular ping.

Some related threads on warchest :
forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/44791-Did-anyone-else-notice-any-quot-netcode-quot-issues-since-sparks-update-(video-included)
forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/45085-Ping-Exploit-the-quot-legal-quot-cheat

(Amerika) #38

Ping is a number. People fixate on it without understanding everything else associated with it. Many people seem to think that “X ping” is best even though it doesn’t factor in how the game plays. It’s just an arbitrary number they have in their head that doesn’t associate with how a game plays. Again, I am pretty much the most picky person in the world when it comes to netcode, latency and how a game plays. I’ve played some of the most ping sensitive games there are in both FPS and fighting games at a high level.

Let me give you some context. If I ping 120 to somebody in Street Fighter IV I will have quite a bit of latency. The game will feel horrible and sluggish for the most part and there will be a ton of delay from when I push a button and when the action associated with the button comes out. However, Street Fighter III 3rd Strike Online uses GGPO netcode that is very much like what is used in FPS games like dirty bomb that is predictive and heavily based on what happens on your side of the connection. You will perform an action, they will perform an action, a prediction is made and most of the time it works out. Sometimes it doesn’t and it’s rolled back (so you can sometimes get a hit sound without actually hitting). But overall it’s very smooth for everyone and that 120 ping that was completely unplayable in SF4 is suddenly smooth and great in 3rd Strike. Yes, you have to deal with rollbacks but you can suddenly play with a lot more players against a much broader geographic area and at a competitive and fair level.

This isn’t a perfect analogy but I think it gets my point across. Ping is a number and means nothing without context and an understanding of other technologies in play. My opinion still remains that I’d rather have smoother play over a larger geographic range than isolate myself and hope that there are people to play with near me in a few years. Getting, “shot behind a wall”, where you weren’t actually shot behind a wall or it was a VERY near thing and rarely happens isn’t a big deal compared to having nobody to play with or not being able to play with friends you’ve made that aren’t near you.

(Ghosthree3) #39

The shot behind a wall issue is actually the least of my concerns with the compensation system. It’s fair, they fired at you when they saw you on their screen and you just didn’t realise you’d been hit until a bit late. That’s fine.

(Amerika) #40

[quote=“B. Montiel;46164”]One thing worth mentioning : good quality game experience may differ from the region. I’m French, and I usually play with players who are located less than 1500/2000km from the server. I don’t know anything about the broadband quality in the US but having a 75 ping in Europe is almost considered bad. Hence a silly conflict with Russian players in some other games where they have no other choices but to come on European servers. When I play with 150+ms, I feel like fragger’s head is harder to hit than proxy’s one with a regular ping.

Some related threads on warchest :
forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/44791-Did-anyone-else-notice-any-quot-netcode-quot-issues-since-sparks-update-(video-included)
forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/45085-Ping-Exploit-the-quot-legal-quot-cheat[/quote]

Somebody claims hit registration isn’t working after literally every patch. If you played World of Warcraft you’d get the reference, “Ony is deep breathing more this patch”. If not, well, look it up as it’s kind of funny :slight_smile: I have never once noticed a difference in hit registration.

As for the other post that is something I keep seeing repeated and typically on EU servers about high ping players. But it doesn’t make any sense as that doesn’t happen for EU players who play in another region with high ping? I play with/against them all the time.

This feels more like people are overreacting. Ping matters of course but due to the system being used it’s mostly an issue with how smooth a connection is. People are confusing high pings with less consistent pings. Somebody who is constantly going from 90-20 will warp all over the place and be hard to hit. Somebody who just has a 120 ping constant will not be. So the player who is 20-90 will be within your mental threshold for good but they will cause you a lot more issues than the 120ping person.