Title says it all, please do something? im not sure why this even exists anyway!
When you die and spectate your team, your not even remotely getting a realistic view of whats going on or what they are doing. On your screen, there crosshair is 1-2 meters off the target, while on the players screen there shots are dead on point. This also works for Deathcams, too many times has my Revive gun bugged out and 5 direct hits in a row didnt revive them, while my friend on Teamspeak is all frustrate and angry saying, you missed over and over, cause on there screen it shows the laser well off target.
How am i ment to know whos hacking and who isnt with the balloon sized hit boxes? Since i cant get a accurate view of there game play.
In Quake and Counter-Strike, what you see is whats happening at least 90% of the time if not more.
here is an example of the “op” revive gun bugging over and over https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr3sp54i0Fc while on their screen it shows me missing probably by a meter or so.
yeah that deathcam shouldnt be taken as gospel. it oft shows strange stuff - prob due to lag stuff - like being shot thru walls or what have you
The game certainly has a few issues around this subject. Just finished a game where a chap on the opposing team, who ended up their top player, had a 240 ping and even tho they had terrible footwork literally walking in a straight line not dodging or even sprinting that much, and even tho their gun was pointing in a different direction when u got in a 1v1 with them they managed to get all HS pretty much killing u instantly.
That terrible server / client accuracy stuff really needs a looking at eh
Deathcam seems to do some sort of stew after the server side has done all its work. Correct me if I’m wrong, but, logically, you have the communication between each clients and the server take decisions upon that and send the results. I suppose that the deathcam is some kind of server side vision. So you can end up literally with actions 2 or 3 tens of a second late on the deathcam. There’s a lot of different ways to improve this :
Deathcam should be a direct stream of info from the client you’re watching.
Reduce the lag compensation which is still awfully high. This is the usual “I got shot after hiding myself behind a wall” stuff. If you want some clue, go play on another region which has a ping of 150-200ms for you. You’ll notice that it is pretty acceptable overall, while in most of other recent fps, it’s totally unplayable. It may be some remnants of old beta where there were sometimes only 20 players playing at the same time around the world. Since there’s 10k of players most of the time, there’s no necessity to be able to play at 150 ms ping in fair conditions. UE3 is pretty versatile on this and I’m a bit surprised that this is still not changed.
(@Ardez@Missmurder, that idea is not often discussed, but it could dramatically improve the game experience. Do you have any feedback on this ?)
Improve server’s tickrate. Basically, the frequency for the communication between the servers and its different clients. This one is hard to deal with, because it generally requires better servers (hence more $$$), but it’s generally very noticeable, especially on UE3 based games. I remember some 100 tickrate servers on chivalry, and they just seemed like chalk and cheese with usual servers.
What you see in specmode is what the server sees. Obviously without lag compensations since that is mostly clientside. Its also worth to note that the UE3 is known for bad spectator implementation.
Infact most UE3 games don’t even bother with firstperson specmode giving you third person at most, I was quite surprised to see first person spec. in DB.
The lag compensation is really bad (i.e too big). I feel not hitting someone, because of low compensation is way less annoying, than dying behind cover, because the weapon spree conceals missed shots anyway.
On the other side i got multiple kills, that i should not have gotten. Last salve on the enemy and i already gave up, because he is behind cover and i suddenly get the kill. ._.
You do realize, that without the lagcompensation you would see teleporting/stutter/input lag and had to lead your shoots depending on the current ping? Lag compensation makes it so that you don’t see those stuff. If you start to notice the lag compensation (i.e shot behind cover, someone running into a wall) than lag has gotten too big and not having it would make it worse (more accurate tho).
Yup, it only needs to be set for pings between 5 and 100 (maybe 120). Further is just useless now. The game current setting seems to compensate for pings topping at almost 200, which generally creates absurd situations in the hit registration when everybody on a server has a ping lower than 80.
I’m pretty sure thats not how it works. There is no thing as overcompensating lag. Lag compensation tries to smooth out the waiting times between client - server - client. If those times are low (everyone has a low ping) than all 3 are getting timely updates and will display the game world more accurate. Lag compensation only has a effect when the waiting times are too high (i.e. someone has a high ping) and it trades one kind of weird effect (inputlag, leading targets, freezed movement…). with another kind of weird effect (warping, shot through walls, shot from a dead person…). Thing is the lagcompensation effects are less obvious most of the time and in short delays. Thats why every shooter implements them.
DB uses technics that allows to play, up to around 150-200 pings with minimum problems. And that enables intercontinental play. Not only for casuals looking for a game outside the peak time of their region, but especial for Tournaments allowing US / EU teams (and other continents aswell) to compete without the need to setup some sort of LAN event.
The most popular and most skill based FPS shooters do not include anything of the sort, only the Call of Dutys and other crap thats made for console peasants has anything of the kind.
Something wrong happened to gaming a long time ago.
@activeClip really what most popular skill based FPS shooter games would that be?
here is an interesting link you might wanna read. Its from a Valve developer who explains different types of lag compensations in use at that time (2001) how they work and what they implemented in Halfife. Every FPS game that is played over the internet has to use lag compensation and they do so since the days of Halflife,Quake and Unreal Tournament.
[quote=“Gi.Am;43564”]@activeClip really what most popular skill based FPS shooter games would that be?
here is an interesting link you might wanna read. Its from a Valve developer who explains different types of lag compensations in use at that time (2001) how they work and what they implemented in Halfife. Every FPS game that is played over the internet has to use lag compensation and they do so since the days of Halflife,Quake and Unreal Tournament.[/quote]
Quake and CS/CSGO was used as latest examples, they are near 99% accurate in what you see is what you get, you rarely ever have conflicting views on the situation unless your watching a low tick demo ect…
Now in Dirty Bomb everything you see is a few hundred ms off time, so when you spectate people it looks like there shots are a meter off target.
Tell me in any way how this is acceptable in a game they intend to bring mass appeal and community inspired competition.
Uhm you were implying that only console games had lag compensation and I showed you proof that this is wrong. Direct from the developer of games like CS/CSGO, who incidently use a highly modded version of the quake engine.
Anyways the Valve/Id games use a different engine than DB. Also DB uses a different technic of lag compensation.
Valve Id games lag compensation will fall apart at lower pings. But since the damage is handled serverside you get to enjoy fairly accurate spectator mode / demorec.
DB on the other hand uses an engine that is known for bad spectator mode support, in general. And uses a lag compensation technic that allows you to play on 150+ ping servers and not warp all over the place.
The price we pay for this, is that the spectator mode looks inaccurate (even tho it isn’t. Its just what the server sees).
[quote=“activeClip;42681”]Im surprised more people have not commented on this? Its really bad state at least for me and others.
They claimed to have fixed the revive gun so hopefully that helps,[/quote]
I posted a similar question today or yesterday. The official line is that it has something to do with latency and network code. Hopefully they will fix this as it helps with identification of cheaters.
ya when u get a high ping player in the server and they seem a little sus going to spec them can be unhelpful because u dont kno if ur seeing something suss or its just whacky lag doing whacky stuff
I’m pretty sure thats not how it works. There is no thing as overcompensating lag. Lag compensation tries to smooth out the waiting times between client - server - client. If those times are low (everyone has a low ping) than all 3 are getting timely updates and will display the game world more accurate. Lag compensation only has a effect when the waiting times are too high (i.e. someone has a high ping) and it trades one kind of weird effect (inputlag, leading targets, freezed movement…). with another kind of weird effect (warping, shot through walls, shot from a dead person…). Thing is the lagcompensation effects are less obvious most of the time and in short delays. Thats why every shooter implements them.
DB uses technics that allows to play, up to around 150-200 pings with minimum problems. And that enables intercontinental play. Not only for casuals looking for a game outside the peak time of their region, but especial for Tournaments allowing US / EU teams (and other continents aswell) to compete without the need to setup some sort of LAN event.[/quote]
Well, all UE3 games works the same way as any other fps for this. I played quite a lot on vanilla UT3, Tribes : Ascend and Chivalry and none of those three had such noticeable delay issues, no matter you’re actually playing or spectating somebody else.
Usually, server are set to provide a good hit reg and lag compensation for pings lower than 120. Lag compensation is generally set for a ping range between 5/15 and 120/150, which exclude higher and lower pings and this has two effects : for extremely low pings below the range, they’re somehow a “victim” of this and every action they do will be corrected to fit the game, and this will be like playing with the minimum bracket. For higher pings, you’re “excluded” of the correction and this results as having warps, lags and that sort of delaying problems.
If you put a too wide range, the biggest problem is that you’ll generate over-compensation to pretty much the majority of the clients. The game somehow knows you’re firing into a direction. The lag compensation range directly impacts the accuracy of your position for the server, since you can move in way longer distances if you have 200ms of “tolerance” instead of a regular 120ms. Thus making indetermination ending to shot through walls. It will still exist with 120 ms, but it will be far less noticeable. You can even feel it while being the guy who shot in dirty bomb. And be sure that the lag compensation tolerance has an effect, even if you’re playing at 60ms ping.
To me, intercontinental playing is somehow utopian with the average broadband quality everybody has. It surprises me that, if it’s an actual choice, they preferred to lower the standards of the immense majority of the gamed played for 0.1% of the rest. As an example, just check quake 3 during its still active life. Compare what was the lag-compensation on a 1999 vanilla Q3 when everybody had 56k to 256k broadbands to quake live with everyone on a dsl connection able to provide a 80 ms ping on a 3000km range. QL is indeed very accurate, BUT you start to warp over 120ms. In my mind, I prefer having a FAR better game experience, despite losing the opportunity to play against US players. The player base is strong enough to lose this now. And intercontinental comp scene through internet, sorry, but I can’t believe this could be a serious strategy. If MOBA games are still not doing this, it is further more impossible for a fps.
I’m seeing a lot of excuses for something that actually does need to be fixed for release. This is especially true if it’s being billed as a competitive shooter aiming for e-sports competition.
