[quote=“MarsRover;87381”]
The old system assigned teams right after going into the lobby. Then some people left, some other joined and were assigned not by ELO but to the smaller team. The end result is basically random. The few people that remained on server are divided by ELO, but the rest is not. Dividing at the last possible moment fixes that.[/quote]
[quote=“Szakalot;87424”]
If you shuffle at the beginning of lobby (like it was pre-patch), any person joining/leaving will screw up the balance. Which is what happened. Over and over again.[/quote]
Nobody here disagrees that more can be done to balance games better
Give us community servers like Montiel suggested to funnel high-skilled players into separate servers than those of the general public. If a ETpro comp player joined etmain/shrub servers, the same problem would occur.
Take into account person’s total performance, and not just the last 10 games, which is prone to change based on how lucky/unlucky you were in those placements.
Take into account merc-specific performances
Start the game only when server is full, preferably while waiting in warmup
fix the ghostplayer bug
@triteTongs I definitely am aware of the carry problem you are describing. No surprise that players with sometimes 2 years of experience can have a huge impact on the result of a particular game. Minlvl10 servers were a good start in funneling these players to a more competitive environment (even though, at this point a lot of players on those servers are poor too, and we honestly need minlvl20 to keep up). Community servers would solve this problem again, with high-tier clans having a place to meet up and play against similarly skilled opponents.
In any case, no changes have been done to balancing of stopwatch games, so not sure how useful it is to bring stopwatch as an example here.
@Merciless Anecdotal evidence doesn’t mean much. Are there still unbalanced games? Sure. Are games better on average? Absolutely! If you don’t see that, guess you had really bad luck for a while now…
There’s an issue with “taking into account someone’s total performance” I guess : where will SD stock the data ? I mean, for a hundred of players it should be okay, but imagine this for thousands and thousands of players : if you’re not basing yourself just on the last 10 days, you may end with pretty much an awful lot of data to store I think. No ?
[quote=“Eox;87669”]There’s an issue with “taking into account someone’s total performance” I guess : where will SD stock the data ? I mean, for a hundred of players it should be okay, but imagine this for thousands and thousands of players : if you’re not basing yourself just on the last 10 days, you may end with pretty much an awful lot of data to store I think. No ?
[/quote]
don’t think so.
the game already stores your K/D and w/l, which would be the primary factors in determining someone’s overall performance. Its not like you need to know detailed info of how good they are with which weapon and whatnot. Simply include total k/d and total w/l into the determination.
If a player has a >2 W/L after 100s of hours of gameplay, they are a damn good player, even if the last 10 games were a slump (or they were trying out a merc they are not good with)
Similarly, if you have a 0.5< W/L after 100s of hours of gameplay, you are pretty poor and a hindrance to your team, even if in the last 10 games you managed extraordinarily well, or had friends to carry you.
I’m not saying: judge it purely based off these stats. But why these stats do not have an influence on the skill-rating determination is beyond me.
My exact statement was, “Point me to where they say they say they do something besides sort people based on their last 10 games.” Which is still the case. Sorry bro but you’re splitting hairs for the sake of arguing. Their autobalance still sucks, except it’s made the game worse because you can’t even team up with friends. All they do now is wait to balance the teams out until before the round starts and disallow switching except in the match but they still sort people based on their last 10 games. You act like this is somehow completely different. The core of how they autobalance teams is intact from last patch. If it made for bad balance last patch, it’s inevitable it will make for bad balance this patch. Regardless of people being locked out from swapping teams during the lobby.
[quote=Szakalot]Anecdotal evidence doesn’t mean much. Are there still unbalanced games? Sure. Are games better on average? Absolutely! If you don’t see that, guess you had really bad luck for a while now…[/quote] So when you simply speak about your experience (aka anecdotal evidence) which supposedly is that pubs are more balanced, this is somehow automatically representative of the game in general and should be considered like some sort of fact.
Yet when he speaks about his personal experience and also posts screen shots of bad balance, he’s just unlucky and his experiences mean nothing. When others like him say they still see bad balance in pubs, it means nothing because according to you games are “better on average.” Where’s YOUR evidence? Oh right, you’re just speaking from personal experience.
So how exactly can you claim that games are better on average when the only objective evidence presented (aka the screen shots, which aren’t flimsy memories but pictures of actual kdr and score distribution–way more “concrete” if you’re going to be so concerned with “evidence”) is obviously to the contrary?
You can’t pretend there’s all this clout behind YOUR personal experience/“anecdotal evidence” and in the same post discredit anyone’s personal experience that doesn’t match your own. On top of the fact you’re casually avoiding the screen shots people have been posting which clearly demonstrate that bad balance can and still does occur in pubs.
There will always be imperfect team balance in pubs and there’s no way to avoid that fact. Anyone can join or leave a pub so skill disparity varies and is uncontrollable by the lobby system. Preventing friends from being able to potentially place themselves on the same team doesn’t magically change the reality that pubs are filled with people of widely varying skill and there’s no way to make even teams.
I believe the quotes I’ve provided explain clearly why balancing at the end of lobby is a better solution than balancing at the beginning of lobby, where half the players on the server join/leave, essentially making the balance random.
Whatever the system SD are using, it is not random. It is not perfect, I’ve pointed out the flaws myself. But it is not as bad AS RANDOM.
[quote=Szakalot]Anecdotal evidence doesn’t mean much. Are there still unbalanced games? Sure. Are games better on average? Absolutely! If you don’t see that, guess you had really bad luck for a while now…
So when you simply speak about your experience (aka anecdotal evidence) which supposedly is that pubs are more balanced, this is somehow automatically representative of the game in general and should be considered like some sort of fact.
Yet when he speaks about his personal experience and also posts screen shots of bad balance, he’s just unlucky and his experiences mean nothing. When others like him say they still see bad balance in pubs, it means nothing because according to you games are “better on average.” Where’s YOUR evidence? Oh right, you’re just speaking from personal experience.
So how exactly can you claim that games are better on average when the only objective evidence presented (aka the screen shots, which aren’t flimsy memories but pictures of actual kdr and score distribution–way more “concrete” if you’re going to be so concerned with “evidence”) is obviously to the contrary? [/quote]
seriously? ‘more evidence’ because a screenshot was provided?
I can concede that the issue is very subjective. However, multiple people have stated that game balance is better since the patch release, here and on SD forums. The only people I saw complain about bad balance being still the case were the ones pushing the friends issue, telling me their view is a little biased.
You see, we do not disagree on the friends issue - I totally am behind the idea that friends should have an easy way to play any game mode, including the objective mode.
However, I’ve noticed a great improvement in the average quality of objective games, and I’d rather keep that over the previous system. Now we just need another method for friends to play together; simplest solution seems to be quickplay using the forced teams, and server browser for free-switching.
You can’t pretend there’s all this clout behind YOUR personal experience/“anecdotal evidence” and in the same post discredit anyone’s personal experience that doesn’t match your own. On top of the fact you’re casually avoiding the screen shots people have been posting which clearly demonstrate that bad balance can and still does occur in pubs.
I have agreed in the very post you are quoting that bad balance can still occur, so not sure what you’re getting at.
There will always be imperfect team balance in pubs and there’s no way to avoid that fact. Anyone can join or leave a pub so skill disparity varies and is uncontrollable by the lobby system. Preventing friends from being able to potentially place themselves on the same team doesn’t magically change the reality that pubs are filled with people of widely varying skill and there’s no way to make even teams.
I’m not having a problem with imperfect team balance. Not every game has to be hard fought till the last second, with overtimes and clutch plays.
However, the average quality of the pub games before the patch would be >50% of one sided-stomps. This has been complained about for over a year now, and many negative steam reviews talk about ‘unbalanced mercs’ ‘constant spawnkilling’ ‘p2w cry’ and ‘OP lvl 10s destroying newbies’ which are clearly symptoms of people getting rekt by badly balanced teams.
[quote=Szakalot]However, multiple people have stated that game balance is better since the patch release, here and on SD forums.[/quote] Multiple people have stated balance is just as bad as before. Again, you can’t pretend someone else’s personal experience outweighs someone else’s just because it might agree with YOUR experience.
I still see people make these same complaints in nearly every single match I play in.
So let me ask you directly–what exactly is your evidence to the claim that balance has actually improved?
this thread = hilarious. I have one friend who I play with. One. All i want is to play a couple quick matches with him. I made an account on here solely to complain about it and im just about done wasting any more of my time on this game. new $10 new mercs all the time but wheres the new maps? or the updates that fix things instead of making them worse? Money hungry beta that as far as i know isnt for sure ever gonna be released. Its a joke. All you people arguing about team balancing need to realize that playing with friends is the only reason some of us play. I wouldn’t even try to introduce someone to this game because they would laugh at me the second i told them we couldn’t choose to be on the same team. DB is going downhill fast and if they aren’t even gonna let me play with friends then its not worth it.
ROTFL. This didn’t happen that often even BEFORE the change. Colorizing much?
I don’t know which region are you playing, maybe only EU where I play is now an oasis of peace. And random complaining people probably still think that balancing is done by visible level. What’s more, I’ve seen matches that should end in a stomp looking on level difference. They didn’t, because you know what - balancing works way better now. But that’s just anecdotal evidence, we can swap stories all day. The thing is - you want a short term solution of returning to shitty balance that will continue damage DB’s image, instead of opting for a PROPER party system, not that team switching crap that is still partially possible now.
Why do you even play DB if you can’t accept that it is work in progress?
You know no one among us can authoritatively answer that EITHER WAY. Stop asking useless questions, they do not make your case any stronger.
And it’s nice that you ignored my previous post. I guess you’re not interested in discussion, just want to rant with hope that it’ll sway SD.
@jonesy - well, you gonna have weather the storm until SD speaks to us what are their further plans. They’re not the most communicative bunch unfortunately. This game is very much a work in progress, not a fake “beta” where this term is slapped on to justify bugs.
Lol, yes it did. And it still does. I saw in almost every match I played last patch people complaining about unfair teams or huge level difference between teams. And I still see it in almost every game this patch. How would you even know how how much I see that complaint? You don’t play with me.
Second of all: if people weren’t complaining that often pre-patch about those things (according to you) then why did they change the lobby system to accommodate people who make those complaints? They weren’t even that common, right? Right?
Ok, this is turning into straw man’s and becoming very circular. Start discussing a potential solution or this thread is going to be closed. No point in people bickering back and forth over subjective matters and ignoring what each other is saying. It’s a multi-layered topic and depending on your viewpoint one of those layers will probably be more important than another…meaning nobody is wrong or right and there is a lot that is completely subjective and based on personal experience.
However, that doesn’t mean a solution can’t be discussed.
I’ll reiterate what I’ve said previously in this thread, in other threads and to friends. I like the fact that they are trying to do something about team balance It is a huge issue and is a source of constant ire from people on this forum, on reddit, on sd forums, steam reviews…everywhere. It’s pretty hard not to see how big of an issue it is. I don’t disagree with the current sorting system. In fact, I want it done right before a match starts to account for later leavers/joiners which always happen. However, what I would like to see is a small party system, maybe 3-4 people (or have it scale with the size of the pub), be able to join a pub together and always be sorted together and have balancing be done against that.
I don’t know if this is the best solution but it’s the only one I have right now. It would be nice to see others.
On a personal note some of you need to grow up and learn that being the screaming child in the room that ignores everyone else isn’t nearly as effective as being the upset adult in the room who has bullet points as to why they are upset and what they would like to see done about it and is willing to discuss resolutions.
I think they should focus more on teaching the community how to play better. Like more robust tutorials which are required before joining servers. It’s a lot easier for “balanced” teams in pubs to exist when there are less bad players and less variance in skill.
I think you would find that completely impossible.[/quote]
Lol, maybe people actually trying on their own to get better wouldn’t be possible for SD to accomplish.
But it is definitely possible to make better tutorials that must be completed before someone is allowed to join a server.
[quote=“Amerika;87811”] However, what I would like to see is a small party system, maybe 3-4 people (or have it scale with the size of the pub), be able to join a pub together and always be sorted together and have balancing be done against that.[/quote]I would’ve liked to see this myself. Maybe maxes of 2 for 6v6, 3 for 7v7, 4 for 8v8, so on and so forth… Hasn’t it been mentioned by the devs at some point that parties were coming for pub matches? I don’t know if they’ll function in this way in regards to teaming up, but it would be nice for sure.
[quote=“Mercy;87857”][quote=“Amerika;87811”] However, what I would like to see is a small party system, maybe 3-4 people (or have it scale with the size of the pub), be able to join a pub together and always be sorted together and have balancing be done against that.[/quote]I would’ve liked to see this myself. Maybe maxes of 2 for 6v6, 3 for 7v7, 4 for 8v8, so on and so forth… Hasn’t it been mentioned by the devs at some point that parties were coming for pub matches? I don’t know if they’ll function in this way in regards to teaming up, but it would be nice for sure.
[/quote]
Yup, they have mentioned that it’s being worked on but no details were given as to what they are going to do. I just wish they had waited on releasing the new lobby until they had that feature ready to go. But it is what it is right now.
And that’s kind of what I had in mind in regards to parties size scaling up with pub size. I think it would be a good compromise and still allow for some balancing to be done.
[quote=“Amerika;87811”]Ok, this is turning into straw man’s and becoming very circular. Start discussing a potential solution or this thread is going to be closed. No point in people bickering back and forth over subjective matters and ignoring what each other is saying. It’s a multi-layered topic and depending on your viewpoint one of those layers will probably be more important than another…meaning nobody is wrong or right and there is a lot that is completely subjective and based on personal experience.
However, that doesn’t mean a solution can’t be discussed.
I’ll reiterate what I’ve said previously in this thread, in other threads and to friends. I like the fact that they are trying to do something about team balance It is a huge issue and is a source of constant ire from people on this forum, on reddit, on sd forums, steam reviews…everywhere. It’s pretty hard not to see how big of an issue it is. I don’t disagree with the current sorting system. In fact, I want it done right before a match starts to account for later leavers/joiners which always happen. However, what I would like to see is a small party system, maybe 3-4 people (or have it scale with the size of the pub), be able to join a pub together and always be sorted together and have balancing be done against that.
I don’t know if this is the best solution but it’s the only one I have right now. It would be nice to see others.
On a personal note some of you need to grow up and learn that being the screaming child in the room that ignores everyone else isn’t nearly as effective as being the upset adult in the room who has bullet points as to why they are upset and what they would like to see done about it and is willing to discuss resolutions.[/quote]
The clear cut solution has already been discussed and the points are very clear to build off.
No one likes team stacking and it is IN FACT unfair.
Players want to play with their friends
If you want to play a pub with 3 or more players you cannot hop on to any server. You can only join another game or server where 3 or more players queued up.
Or you can do the system similar to league of legends searching.
From what I read throughout this thread there doesn’t seem to be a better solution to this.
Anyone who disagrees with this is promoting team stacking and pub stomping, which I’ll repeat nobody likes and it’s UNFAIR.
I just stopped playing the game overall, the recent changes have driven this game into a ditch.
A solution to this is simply reverting it, let me play with my friends once more, my friends and I have left the game due to the inability to play on the same side.
[quote=“Fap Fap Master;88166”]I just stopped playing the game overall, the recent changes have driven this game into a ditch.
A solution to this is simply reverting it, let me play with my friends once more, my friends and I have left the game due to the inability to play on the same side.[/quote]
I don’t blame you for doing that. The only thing keeping me around is the fact that there’s no other FPS I’m currently playing besides Dirty Bomb.
Here’s the current issue, once you lose players, you lose them forever, they aren’t going to reinstall once uninstalled, the damage of the lobby system has been done. My friends left the game and even if I tell them its been fixed, they won’t come back because they have found a new game to play. The steam charts refect this perfectly.
