playing ET on a competition level.

(edg3) #1

Hi,
First I want to compliment with a game well done…
But there are some comments about the limits of the tweaking ability’s in RtCW ET.
They are limited for tweaking which make it fairly impossible to play it on a competition level.
A switch back to the old format should in my opinion the best thing to do.
Let cups and admins of servers limit the cvars them self with pb and keep both sides happy.
It was a big disappointment that the tweaking possibility is not expanded but more limited in RtCW ET.
Don’t forget that most of the RtCW clan ppl play the game for the teamplay vs tactics vs aim and not how good the game looks with picmip0.
Its not only me but the most of the professional rtcw clanners thinks this is a bad thing, and they stay with the old game because of that.
should be a shame, because the game is really great, and at the moment its not using its maximum potential…

-Edg3

________________________________________
// gaim rtcw member // Clanbase cup admin //

(Dantastic) #2

“professional rtcw clanners” need to get jobs methinks

(chavo_one) #3

If “professional” clan people play for teamplay vs tactics vs aim, then what in the world does tweaking your screen have to do with that?

(reks) #4

I actually think the biggest challenge for ET for competition is time. How do you play best of 5 SW round when the round could go 30 minutes? I think this is where we need to focus our attention on ET for competition. A reduction to best of 3 or a campaign or something.

Tweak reduction is much better for people interested in playing the game. You can focus less on turning ET into colecovision and more on how to play.

(edg3) #5

Your stupid and your think your funny while you cant think

-Edg3

________________________________________
// gaim rtcw member // Clanbase cup admin //

(edg3) #6

There are 2 options imo… 1 map and 2 rounds sw… or the best of 3 in campaign mode which is in the limit of normal matches around 90 mins. with the challanger is attacking and home team defending.
But thats beside the point…

I dont mind you tweaking your tv with brightness and contrast.
Or that you smoke and i dont. its about taste… and taste is diverent.

-Edg3

________________________________________
// gaim rtcw member // Clanbase cup admin //

(BloodShadow) #7

Your stupid and your think your funny while you cant think

Wow, that was a very complex come back… So Who cant think? Or is it a matter of not wanting to waste precious brain juice on measly simpletons?

(SCDS_reyalP) #8

ever hear of this little LAN event called quakecon ? From what I heard, the untweaked CFGs pretty much ruined it… or not :confused:

Tweaking to has it’s place. In some cases, it helps level the playing field. Given the difference in systems, restricting brightness is pretty much impossible, so you might as well let everyone jack it way up. ET still lets you do this.

Picmip can really improve performance on low end cards, as well as letting you see better, but going higher than 3 or 4 isn’t going to help you very much if you have a 32 meg card or better. ET lets you do that.

People in competition will tweak to the limit of what is allowed, because every little bit helps. Just like an people in racing would do something that makes their car .5 kph faster, because all else being equal, that could win.

Could you give examples of cvars that are restricted in ET, that you think should be allowed, and point out WHY they would make the game better for competition ?

Myself, I see the length of rounds being the biggest issue. Tweaks or the lack of them isn’t going to stop people from playing.

(edg3) #9

finally a serious reply… gg!!!

I am not going to post all my cvars here because ppl don’t care really because everybody got his own preferences when it comes to tweaking… some ppl like to play it light some in the dark… some with textures some don’t (like me)
On normal rtcw i play with picmip’s 5 and intensity 6 (dark monitor). whitch are acceptable on all (no noob) servers.

Personally i like to play without textures and bright environment this is because i need glasses… no serious… i only want to see ppl and don’t care about how good the grass is textured… me (and most of the ppl who play in a clan) want to test there skills and tactics and do like the challenges in that… how can you shoot if you don’t see the enemy… but then again… clan playing is a lot of divergent then play on any public server i guess…

A off topic note… large map times isn’t really a big issue really… there are allot of things you can do when it comes to the big time in ET… its diverent but i wasn’t around when the builders decided to make large map times and cant say why they did so…
Ask a clan guy and most of the time he say they need to be around 8-15 mins. no more 4 round of sw i guess :)) or you want to play for 2 and half ours…(including warmup and)

  • Edg3

// gaim rtcw member // Clanbase cup admin //

(sphinx175) #10

On a sidenote, I know for a fact that CAL doesn’t check for a quite a few questionable gameplay features. For example, you can stop the bobbing of the weapons or the recoil you experience from being hit I believe.

Any rate, ET maps are pretty dang big that’s for sure.
Goldrush just has too much to do. Build what three or four barricades or destroy them with dyno? Phew… that’s 2-3 minutes right there just planting and exploding the obstacles.

Battery is just choas it seems. I think it’d be a much better map if there were two ways for the Allies to get into the base but as it stands now that back door is Axis only

Railgun I could see as being a competitive map. Multiple ways to move to the objectives and smaller than the other ET maps.

Oasis could too since you can bypass the wall through the pumping stations

Fueldump, while large would be possible too I think.

Perhaps some coder will also try to redo the original maps. But honestly, I think after playing them for well over a year in competivie fashion I’m tired of them.

(SCDS_reyalP) #11

Bobing as you move you can turn off. cg_bob**** I wish they would just make these things off by default, TBH.

Recoil when hit cannot be, as far as I know. There are cvars that seem like they would change it, but they don’t. You can find what a lot of competition players are using here:
http://www.team-arise.com/config/

(DG) #12

knockback can only be changed server side. 0 bob helps motion sickness and anyway taking it off doesnt do much for aim.

no point bothering to push the tweaking issue tbh, its not like theyre going to about turn and start allowing it just because a few clannned players whine about it - and tbh i find it about 1/3 serious clanned players want more tweak, 1/3 prefer it now and 1/3 dont care either way. a lot of sponsors arent exactly keen. And yes my ET is tweaked a little, and rtcw a fair bit more. But i’ve never understood how everyone using picmip 5, mapoverbrightbits 8 blah blah suddenly made the game more tactical. tactics are there dark corners or no, if anything darkness makes it more tactical and fullbright reduces it in favour of aim.

(HellToupee) #13

i played rtcw, as a clan to in various competitions, beat a few top clans to, but i didnt tweak much, i left my lightmap on, i did a lil picmap as my computer is a 850mhz with a gf4mx, i turned up brightness so i could see yet wasnt snow bright, if i am going to enjoy myself it must look decent other wise u should be playing CS. Limiting tweaks evens the playing fields, theres options that can level the field for lower enders yet stop the people that go hard out make other players ultra easy to see, i see configs where peoples hands and faces were bright blue. If you cant handle the tweaking restrictions and have anything more than what ive got u should just deal with it, if u cant then you arnt that good.

(Gambit) #14

well, i have a p3 850. I upgraded to 768 mb ram, i dropped in a gforce 4 4200 ti, and an audigy sound card. I do just fine on many maps (including maps that prompt foliage challenged folks who spend half their time ass-kissing prior to release to being major critics after release). You know who you are, nothing more needs to be said.

Cvar tweaking…where to begin. Well, altering cvars IS NOT going to make you a better player. Sure, a few tweaks will bump your FPS. I have a cruddy system (see above), but even on foliage challenged maps, I actually do rather well. My FPS is actually higher (for some strange reason) in ET than it is in plain wolf.

before anyone accuses me of being an anti-tweaking person, I tweak heavily for comp play. On Pubs, hey, play the game as it was made. If you’re getting your butt kicked, maybe you need to build some skills.

Nope, I am not the best Wolf or ET player. I am also not suffering from delusions of grandeur either. I need to get a little better and I will. I am also not going to run out and buy a new video card because foliage is dropping my fps. I have a lame computer. Foliage is not a problem for me. not sure why it is for some.

I suppose foliage and cvar tweaks are going to be blamed for just plain bad game play. get some skills. Pubs are a nightmare right now because of the noob factor, but that will even out.

Yep, foliage griping makes me laugh. the rain and foliage are cool. I guess I need a P4 with a new video card so I can own…lmao. Sure.

Do not mistake my low post count for being a noob. I only type when I have to because if I am going to get carpal tunnel syndrome, I am going to get it from gaming and not from whining about how people are owning me because I just plain suck (not all people who complain suck, but free game=free influx of idiots, so figure that one out).

ok, I know my opinion is not popular, so flame away…I would like to think I am realistic, but, flame away. When pub teamwork hits, it’ll be fun. When the leagues work out stuff, ET will be fun (stuff is the best way to describe it–SW loss of experience based on disconnects, etc.).

New game…ride it out.

me

(Kendle) #15

I think the tweaking question is even more of a non-starter in E.T. than it is in RTCW. I used to use a heavily tweaked config for Clan games, but now most of those tweaks are legitimate on publics anyway.

I’ve tweaked E.T. a little, and gained a few FPS in the process, but I can’t say it’s made a sods worth of difference to my game (I’m still shit!).

The biggest issues for Clan games, in descending order of importance, are:-

  1. The Experience Points system. This sucks big time for Clan games and really, really needs a server-side cvar to switch it off.

  2. Team size. E.T. seems to require bigger teams (8v8, 10v10). I know BF1942 is played 10v10, but quite simply, the larger the team, the fewer teams there are, and the logistics of organising games and getting everyone to turn up become that bit more difficult.

  3. Round timelimits. Long rounds = long games, which together with the bigger teams, makes the logistics of organised E.T. games that much less viable.

(menikmati) #16

stop bitching at each other…i dont wanna have this game turn into so fuckass CS community…

:angry:

Surely the experience points system is a feature of ET and should remain it…

heck we might as well get CPMA for Q3A and remove the movement…

:moo: <–rocks

and stop being all big headed and “1337”…yer i play wolf and i fucking own OMFGKTHXBYE…whos gives a shit aye :slight_smile:

i dont give a toss if your fatal1ty or my neighbour just play the game and have fun…

maybe i should add Clanbase Cup Admin to my sig (coz i am one)…but that actually means very little :wink:

bah whatever

either have to choices…ignore me or flame me…i know which way its gonna go and i know which way i want it to go :frowning:

(Mat L) #17

Personally, I’ve always thought that graphical tweaks take away from the spirit of the game.
The developer intended for the game to look as gorgeous as possible, and yet people go out of their way to enhance visibility by reducing graphical detail.
There’s very little excuse nowadays for people to be playing games such as this with all the settings turned low. You may complain that your PC is slow, but hell, you can afford that monthly broadband connection, I’m guessing an upgrade should be affordable for you.
I myself tweak, but this is because if I don’t, I can’t compete.
If I can’t see the Axis spawn flag from the Comms tower on RTCW Vanilla’s Assault map, I know I’m at a disadvantage.
THIS IS WRONG.

The developer intended for visibility to be low at such distances.

I hate throttling back my beast of a PC, which is more than powerful enough to run the game at 85+ FPS at full detail.
And yet, if I am to stand the smallest chance of being in the game, I have to make my game look uglier than the spoddy 13 year old nerds who do tweak.

So, I for one believe that limiting what can and cannot be tweaked is a step in the right direction.

It shouldn’t be about who knows the best tweaks, it should be about who’s got the better skills on a level playing field.

(Fallout) #18

Tweaking for framerate is one thing, but check out a lot of the configs for the top 20 Quake 3 players. I’d be surprised if you could find even one that played with remotely “standard” config. Hell, graphic wise you’d think the game came out in the early 90s.

Tweaking is one thing, but at extremes it borders on cheating as it circumvents what details the levels had that were intended to be there by the creators. It’s like turning off camoflauge since it makes the enemy hard to see. Gee, really? I didn’t think that could be a reason to use camoflauge… oh nos! Tweaking to reduce texture quality for performance (no one needs flat shaded polygons… high picmips from Quake 3 come to mind, as the framerate from even dated video cards won’t be improved beyond even the medium settings for that.

UT2003 and Counter-Strike both aren’t games that can be tweaked much at all, and RTCW has had some pretty large limits placed on how far tweakers can go. In fact, it seems Quake 3 is the only mainstream game that allows heavy tweaking in competitive play. Considering how old Q3 is, I don’t think that sort of metality will hold out much longer.

Developers put frills and details in so they enhance the game and yes… obscure your view in some areas. That means they have tactical importance, and heavy tweaking really ignores that. Luckily, it seems heavy tweaking is going to be dying out once Quake 3 leaves the building.

(ocr.D-Link*CptMeat) #19

Heho,

I have already thought lots of times about that. ET is by itself more restricted than RTCW was eg picmip can be 3 at max.
I`d say - take the pb cvarchecks from RTCW (like cb rules) and just take em over to ET. The other thing is - with how many peeps should Teams play ET? I think 6on6 would be a good choice - concidering that RTCW clans might change over to ET and that 6on6 was good for wolf.

Some of you might say “Hey dude the maps in ET are HUGE and 6on6 is impossible to play” - Right is the COMPLETE MAP is huge compared to most wolfmaps BUT you never play the complete map :slight_smile: :moo:

The stages and Spawnpoints on the maps were set almost perfectly in my opionion.

Finally to be honest I never tried playing 6vs6 by myself but i will find out next week ;). In theorie gamemode STOPWATCH would be fine as it was in wolf

(Freedom[]Tickler) #20

8v8 is the minimum number for a ladder match for ET, IMO.
I understand people wanting a few FPS viz tweaking of CVARs etc, and I really dont mind. I have all the eye candy jacked, am perfectly able to distinguish freind from foe and my FPS is fine.
Yes its harder to organize matches w/ more than 8 or 12 people, but less than 8v8 would be silly for ET, which is a game of big, raging battles.
Theres no shortage of fussy clan players, who’ll balk on a match over server selection where their ping is 15 higher than everyone elses. Screw the primadonas I say, lets frag.