Player Reputation System

(SockDog) #1

It’s been mentioned in other threads (briefish recap below) but I came across the following just now and thought I’d put it up here for discussion as I’d never heard of this before. I guess the key words are “badly designed”, when aren’t they? :slight_smile:

How badly designed reputation systems create in-game mafias

Recap:
Idea is to allow fellow gamers a method to “out” the douche bags (griefers, cheaters, TKers etc). Remove that anonymity and randomness they rely upon to avoid the repercussions for their actions.

Allow each player to cast a vote against other players. They have to have played against/with that player for at least a few minutes.

You can only vote on a player within 7 days of playing them. You can change the vote as much as you like within that window but you can only ever cast one vote against person.

Although voting can be done at any time within the defined window. It would be encourage as an action at the end of each map. Players who have played and then left the server would be listed also.

Servers can filter players by reputation.

(Joe999) #2

consoles already have a reputation system and on pc the only good player filter is an active server admin

(Mustang) #3

So you get bad rep by being voted kicked I guess?
How do you get good rep?

(Nail) #4

lose without rage/quit

(SockDog) #5

Don’t the consoles just show positive rep? If so it’s not really really what I’m getting at.

Sure, but not all server’s are admin’d. Those that are probably won’t be for 24 hours. Admin’d servers have their own issues too. The idea isn’t to replace though, just give another tool to identify these people more easily to server owners and other gamers.

[quote=Mustang;200049]So you get bad rep by being voted kicked I guess?
How do you get good rep?[/quote]

IMO no, I wouldn’t say you would/should automatically get a bad vote if vote kicked. You would however be shown at the end of map as “left mid-game: Vote Kick”, players can then vote on you if they wanted to or not.

For good votes, well, I’d hope we’d follow up the “gg” with some positive votes for your team and opponents.

My thinking is whenever you meet another player you can see their reputation and what you have voted them as previously. Why not put those persistent stats to actual use and hold people accountable for their actual sportsmanship rather than some K/D or Acc number.

With it only being a single, but changeable, vote. You have the chance to redeem yourself. One drunken night session might turn some people off you, but go back the next day, few apologies and some good games and you could win over people’s opinion.

I suppose I’m just trying to suggest we bring some social repercussions to online gaming. This might not be the best idea but I’m just trying to throw out something new because Admins and Punkbuster certainly need some support.

(stealth6) #6

I think it’s a bad idea, cause people are only going to use it to give bad rep.
I think per 10 bad reps given 1 good rep will be given lol.

people just want to play the game they don’t care about somebodies rep.

(tokamak) #7

I think it’s a bad idea altogether. True sportmanship doesn’t need a status indicator.

Besides, admins (or democratic systems like here) that have a dogmatic view on how a game should be played are one of the worst things in the shooter genre.

Yesterday I got kicked from Raven Shield by an admin just because I was waiting to shoot someone with my thermal sniper hiding behind a doorpost. It’s ridiculous. Everyone should be playing the game however he wants without having a referee judging every move.

(Wolfmeister) #8

Good point :tup:

(engiebenjy) #9

I dont like this idea, I shouldnt be punished when I play in a drunken state, not being able to aim at anything is punishment enough :eek:

(SockDog) #10

My motivation is identifying the dicks who think an online game is an exclusive playground for their own personal enjoyment. It might not be a workable solution but the idea is to remove the sorts of douchebag behaviour that does nothing but aggravate sportsmanlike players.

Nothing has changed in online gaming to address this behaviour for what 10+ years? You’re still hoping an admin is around to ban someone or that PB can catch a cheat. I haven’t seen a single innovation in this area to address those problems.

Again, not saying this is THE solution, I’m happy for everyone to burn it down. But come on you have to admit TKing, Griefing, XP Farming, Cheating, Spamming etc are things we can do without when just trying to play a game.

(tokamak) #11

Cheating is something beyond reputation, it should simply be an immediate ban. Team killing needs in-game consequences, and spamming has it’s usual filters, but after that, you’re treading on thin ice. In-game behaviour is really subjective and therefore no good reason to ban it.

(SockDog) #12

So you’re basically saying that the state of online gaming is fine? You’re happy with the tools available to address issues in game? Really?

Cheating
Who gives the immediate ban?

TKing
What if they only take 50% of your health? What if the other team don’t care about a Kick Vote?

Spamming
Filters are not perfect and restrict legitimate use.

Subjective Behaviour
This is the good one because really, the current solutions are based on addressing the behaviour. The minute the behaviour changes then the solution fails. What I’m saying is to address the intent in a very passive way.

If I just don’t like you, for whatever reason. I vote you down. So what, if you’re actually a good gamer others will vote you up or remain neutral. It doesn’t affect you to any significant extent. If however you like to join servers and play in a manner that pisses everyone else off then you might get more negative votes. Maybe then you’d realise that your play style doesn’t fit with that group or even the game.

The thing I’m trying to get across is that someone who enjoys TKing doesn’t give a crap if they get kicked. Hey they consider that the punchline. All the while 15 other players are screwed in some form or another. Then what happens? That guy just joins another server and starts right over.

Edit:
Oh I forgot to say I like the idea of limiting the positive/negative votes in some way. Maybe you earn one/two each per map. So you can nominate your man of the match and biatch of the map. :slight_smile:

(Nail) #13

it’s all good in theory, but what happens when you piss off some immature mind by “stealing” his kill or completing “his” objective and he whines to his like minded “clan” who take it upon themselves to avenge their “clanmate” ?

admins are still the best bet against bad attitude players

(SockDog) #14

[quote=Nail;200111]it’s all good in theory, but what happens when you piss off some immature mind by “stealing” his kill or completing “his” objective and he whines to his like minded “clan” who take it upon themselves to avenge their “clanmate” ?

admins are still the best bet against bad attitude players[/quote]

I’d almost guarantee that would happen. I can only say that the entire clan would have to play you first and only then could they vote you down. To flip the argument, what’s stopping the guy running to his clan who then all kick vote you off a server or just generally grief you. In the former you end up with a handful of bad rep votes, in the latter your games are screwed up.

Shouldn’t take long for this whiner to rack up his own votes and then you can just filter his ass off a whole range of servers.

Again the idea would be at worst be complimentary to a good admin role. It’s not intended to enforce rules but allow some of the gaming scum to be filtered off the top of the tank.

Anyway, not getting much buy in here. :slight_smile: What other solutions do people have? I hear Admin’d servers a lot but in my experience not all servers are admin’d 24/7 and why should we put up with a sub-standard game because of a few people just because there is no way to address their behaviour.

(needforWeed) #15

Bad idea. If I kill someone 20 times the noob will hit the bad reputation button and call me a cheater. Noobs think if they can’t kill you you must be a cheater. Seen that in QW lots of times.

If a comp player is coming to vanilla pub for a fun he will get bad reputation really fast, cause ppl don’t like to be owned.

(Senyin) #16

Being able to give bad rep will always be abused, sadly.
I never trust any gaming community to handle it fair and square and with
a certain level of maturity.

Maybe stick to just positive Rep or positive medals players can hand out to
fellow players.

Or… make the players pay a substantial ammount of XP for giving others bad rep.
You can give bad rep but it will cost you… haha
Maybe this will encourage to give bad rep only when really valid (and worth it)

Teamkillers should be autokicked when done X-ammount of damage to teammates.
A hidden or visible teamdamage countdown and once you hit zero, you’re out.

I’m just harsh that way
And I’m willing to pay a price to get rid of deliberate teamkillers.

Edit: Or maybe something simulair to this would be better?
Placing it in the hands of the player him/herself, instead of in the hands of others:

" The only repsystem worth paying attention to are the ones like in EVE online, where someone’s
“Security Rating” is decreased automatically as a result of crimes committed against other players.
If someone never steals from or attacks other players or commits crimes against peaceful NPC’s, they will never get a negative “security rating”.

So:
The negative in your control
The positive in others control (giving positive rep)

(tokamak) #17

When you’re adding a tangible value to behaviour, you’re pretty much trivialising it. You’re taking the responsibility of someone acting sportive out of themselves out of their hands which will results in people trying hard to find loopholes in the system and abuse it.

EDIT: and really, people can have very dubious ideas of what’s acceptable or not. In R6 admins frequently kick people for ‘prefiring’ (firing your gun while running around a corner), these people think it’s only acceptable to fire a weapon if you have a target in your crosshair. Or some are very harsh against camping, even sitting still for ten seconds warrants a kick.

That’s just ridiculous, I don’t care if the majority agrees.

(SockDog) #18

[quote=needforWeed;200121]Bad idea. If I kill someone 20 times the noob will hit the bad reputation button and call me a cheater. Noobs think if they can’t kill you you must be a cheater. Seen that in QW lots of times.

If a comp player is coming to vanilla pub for a fun he will get bad reputation really fast, cause ppl don’t like to be owned.[/quote]

True but so what. If you’re a good player you’ll be offset with positive rep too.

The comp player is good example. IMO he should get a bad reputation. The vanilla server, lower skilled players aren’t there for this player to rip on for a laugh. He affects their enjoyment, it’s likely if he stays there for more than a map or two without an opposite he’ll just clear the server. Maybe if he saw there was no challenge and left at the end of a map he’d get some positive rep for not being a selfish prick.

[quote=Senyin;200124]Being able to give bad rep will always be abused, sadly.
I never trust any gaming community to handle it fair and square and with
a certain level of maturity.[/quote]

True but can you control more easily than attempting to control every gameplay eventuality? As I’ve said if I can have one persistent vote against you ever and only cast that vote after playing you surely that limits some levels of the abuse.

Maybe stick to just positive Rep or positive medals players can hand out to
fellow players.

The positive aspect is one I have to admit I’ve not given much thought to. Would perhaps be nice to link some awards from your peers to positive rep rather than some bland mix of stats.

Or… make the players pay a substantial ammount of XP for giving others bad rep.
You can give bad rep but it will cost you… haha
Maybe this will encourage to give bad rep only when really valid (and worth it)

Another good idea. There certainly has to be some limits although I’m cautious of linking only to XP as that could give people with loads of time lots of power. You also want this to identify the dicks on servers, which won’t work if you can’t neg rep them because you don’t have XP.

Teamkillers should be autokicked when done X-ammount of damage to teammates.
A hidden or visible teamdamage countdown and once you hit zero, you’re out.

This was my point with Tok though. You implement a rule for a TK damage amount. A griefer just stays under that amount. You lower it, honest mistakes get punished. Griefer win’s either way.

At least with a human based system you get to make the judgement. No matter how big or small, you can have a say whether someone is at fault.

Edit: Or maybe something simulair to this would be better?
Placing it in the hands of the player him/herself, instead of in the hands of others:

" The only repsystem worth paying attention to are the ones like in EVE online, where someone’s
“Security Rating” is decreased automatically as a result of crimes committed against other players.
If someone never steals from or attacks other players or commits crimes against peaceful NPC’s, they will never get a negative “security rating”.

So:
The negative in your control
The positive in others control (giving positive rep)

Elaborate how that would work in a game such as Brink or ETQW though?

No you’re placing the judgement of behavior in the hands of the people you are playing, not in your own personal judgement of what is good or bad. If 15 other players on the server think your XP farming in the corner of the map is bad sportsmanship shouldn’t they have a forum to say that? I know you sure as hell aren’t going to penalise yourself.

The current system of apathy, ignorance or votes does not address these problems well, or even at all.

EDIT: and really, people can have very dubious ideas of what’s acceptable or not. In R6 admins frequently kick people for ‘prefiring’ (firing your gun while running around a corner), these people think it’s only acceptable to fire a weapon if you have a target in your crosshair. Or some are very harsh against camping, even sitting still for ten seconds warrants a kick.

That’s just ridiculous, I don’t care if the majority agrees.

You’re using the current system to argue about not bringing any improvements to the table?

The majority rules. If you don’t like the server rules go somewhere else. If you kept joining the server and being a dick about the rules then surely you deserve to be given bad rep?

(tokamak) #19

I really think people shouldn’t have that power no. Behaviour should be regulated through in-game features (xp-farming should be an oxymoron if you have proper algorithms for xp rewards) not through mob-rule.

People especially gamers can turn blatantly into Nazis if give the powers.

(Fa22Dragon) #20

[QUOTE=tokamak;200142]I really think people shouldn’t have that power no. Behaviour should be regulated through in-game features (xp-farming should be an oxymoron if you have proper algorithms for xp rewards) not through mob-rule.

People especially gamers can turn blatantly into Nazis if give the powers.[/QUOTE]

I do like the idea of in game features but come to fruition I’ve never seen it done well…