Phoenix Is Far Outclassed By The Other Medics

[Black2]

Phoenix has to be one of the most inconsistent and weakest medic yet. He is far outclassed by other medic mercs.

Phoenix fails as a medic merc due to his inconsistent and slow supply of health he can give to his team in a given amount of time. If a medic cannot constantly and efficiently supply his or her team with health then the merc is useless.

Phoenix is bad because:

1. Long cooldown. 6-20 seconds.
2. Can be wasted and or missed.
3. Cannot be used on one person to give them an ample amount of health without a long cooldown.

These conditions are completely unbalanced vs the other medics ability to heal.

Sawbonez can throw multiple health packs with a short cooldown. Can be picked up if missed.
Aura can set down a heal station to heal multiple people rapidly. Says actively indefinitely.
Sparks can instantaneously heal people with packs with a short cooldown. Can be picked up if missed.

Phoenix is just simply outclassed, the other medics do a way better job.
He is merely a weak aura.

[SucculentHeadCrab]

We’ll see what changes were implemented since closed beta, and also reserve premature judgement before even seeing him in game.

[LifeupOmega]

Still looks far more potent in combat, and less awful like he was upon first release. Let’s see when he’s actually released, adjustments will be made after that.

[Black2]

lel.

I’m aware he may get changes upon release, I’m just pointing out the inconsistency here.

[srswizard]

Personally I’d wait to see him in action, before judging.
Just theorycrafting here, but while he might not be the strongest pub merc, I believe he could be very good for coordinated aggressive pushes.

[Amerika]

Yup…got to wait on this one. I think he’ll be rather powerful as he has more HP than Sparks and Aura, can burst heal a number of people (which you crowd a decent amount in 5v5 at times) and has access to very good weapons. But you might also be right in the long run depending on just how useful his heal is and the CD on it. At least it would be very easy to tune…if his heal isn’t that good people will comment and the CD could be reduced.

There are significant disadvantages to Sparks and Aura you’re not factoring in when doing the math on abilities. You can’t only compare healing power in a vacuum. So I guess we’ll just have to wait and see

My theory is he’ll be pretty solid in 5v5 competitive out of the gate but weaker in pubs when you want to keep people healed. But we shall see!

[Black2]

[quote=“Amerika;74450”]Yup…got to wait on this one. I think he’ll be rather powerful as he has more HP than Sparks and Aura, can burst heal a number of people (which you crowd a decent amount in 5v5 at times) and has access to very good weapons. But you might also be right in the long run depending on just how useful his heal is and the CD on it. At least it would be very easy to tune…if his heal isn’t that good people will comment and the CD could be reduced.

There are significant disadvantages to Sparks and Aura you’re not factoring in when doing the math on abilities. You can’t only compare healing power in a vacuum. So I guess we’ll just have to wait and see

My theory is he’ll be pretty solid in 5v5 competitive out of the gate but weaker in pubs when you want to keep people healed. But we shall see![/quote]

Healing power/Healing rate is what makes a medic.
It’s very essential.

Right now sparks can give the most health in the shortest amount of time and phoenix can give the least health in the shortest amount of time.

[Ardez1]

I just want to point out that he isn’t even released yet. Many people thought bushwhacker would be junk because so many things can counter his turret, yet he is still the go to engineer. And while Phoenix may look unappealing to some at first, you also need to look as his base health and weapon choices before writing him off.

But yes, based purely on healing power and abilities then Aura or Sparks should be the #1 medic choice, yet it is Sawbonez. Why? His combat survivability. Phoenix provides a fairly durable medic, with good SMG choices. In particular the hochfir is a solid SMG that doesn’t see much cup use because Proxy is almost never in cups.

And while 100 hp isn’t crazy, it is still 20 more then both Aura or Sparks(a 25% increase)

[watsyurdeal]

You know…it’d be nice if at least one Medic has 120 hp…could it be Phoenix? :o

[SteelMailbox]

He is a more mobile aura in my opinion, more tailored towards attacking than defense.
I won’t say he will be outclassed I do think he will have a high learning curve.

[Amerika]

[quote=“BlackFro;74452”][quote=“Amerika;74450”]Yup…got to wait on this one. I think he’ll be rather powerful as he has more HP than Sparks and Aura, can burst heal a number of people (which you crowd a decent amount in 5v5 at times) and has access to very good weapons. But you might also be right in the long run depending on just how useful his heal is and the CD on it. At least it would be very easy to tune…if his heal isn’t that good people will comment and the CD could be reduced.

There are significant disadvantages to Sparks and Aura you’re not factoring in when doing the math on abilities. You can’t only compare healing power in a vacuum. So I guess we’ll just have to wait and see

My theory is he’ll be pretty solid in 5v5 competitive out of the gate but weaker in pubs when you want to keep people healed. But we shall see![/quote]

Healing power/Healing rate is what makes a medic.
It’s very essential.

Right now sparks can give the most health in the shortest amount of time and phoenix can give the least health in the shortest amount of time.

[/quote]

I don’t entirely agree with that. There are a lot of other factors that makes a “medic” in this game. Comparing only healing output in a vacuum without factoring in the other pros and cons while also discussing scenarios where the circular burst healing helps (and where it could make you get wiped easy) seems a bit narrow to me.

But…I guess I’ll bite.

Sawbonez: Has the most potential to keep a team alive. However, heals get canceled if anybody takes damage. Also, packs are slow to regen. You get 3 packs by default and 4 if you have the extra supplies augment.

Aura: Healing station provides constant healing but is a nade magnet and sets up slowly. Best overall for keeping heals pumped out but has obvious disadvantages in a fight. Also, if you destroy a newly setup station that Aura is pretty ineffective for quite some time.

Sparks: Has the most burst healing potential in a fight but can barely top up a single merc using all her packs (3 at any one time IIRC). Also, lets not forget how small the packs are and how hard they are to hit on moving mercs or for those players to miss the pack (most annoying thing ever…please fix SD).

Phoenix: Now this is all theory since nobody has played his open beta version (and I didn’t play him in closed either). Burst healing similar to Sparks but nobody knows how much the initial non-charged burst will heal for or the charged burst. In 5v5 comp there are quite a few times when 2-3 people are with each other and having a guy who can burst heal some nade damage would be quite nice. However, it could lead to people clumping and making Fragger/ Naders job easier. If the initial burst heal is pretty good and can be amplified by an augment then it might be pretty damn OP to have a big burst heal every ~6 seconds.

Again, that’s just healing potential along with the pros and cons (from my viewpoint) with each. I’m down with a good discussion on the topic so bring it on

[watsyurdeal]

Well the huge dertming factors will be

1. How long does it take for the self revive to actually work?
2. Is 60 seconds too long of a cooldown or just right?
3. How long does his healing pulse take after use to recharge?

Really this is all stuff we won’t know till the day he comes out.

[Black2]

@Ardez

I understand he hasn’t been released .______.

However from the looks of it, it seems he’s about to get owned if you are not very good with him
Kind of like how I owned you in stopwatch with sawbonez yesterday

[Amerika]

Oh shit, he’s trying to serve you @ardez. Need to step up and get your electric boogaloo on.

Bonus points who got all the references in those sentences.

Minus a million bonus points if you got those references in those sentences because DAMN you have bad taste in movies.

[Ardez1]

[quote=“BlackFro;74466”]@Ardez

I understand he hasn’t been released .______.

However from the looks of it, it seems he’s about to get owned if you are not very good with him
Kind of like how I owned you in stopwatch with sawbonez yesterday :)[/quote]

Doesn’t every merc look like it is about to get owned if you are not very good with them? That is like saying water is wet. Of course if you are bad with a merc you will get #rekt .

That was a really good point you made though. My personal skill or lack thereof really negates any argument or position I take when discussing Phoenix.

[Black2]

[quote=“Ardez;74478”][quote=“BlackFro;74466”]@Ardez

I understand he hasn’t been released .______.

However from the looks of it, it seems he’s about to get owned if you are not very good with him
Kind of like how I owned you in stopwatch with sawbonez yesterday :)[/quote]

Doesn’t every merc look like it is about to get owned if you are not very good with them? That is like saying water is wet. Of course if you are bad with a merc you will get #rekt .

That was a really good point you made though. My personal skill or lack thereof really negates any argument or position I take when discussing Phoenix.[/quote]

Not entirely.
Like “steelMailbox” said above, he might have a bit of a higher learning curve due to his kit.
It’s not easy to know when to use dat AOE heal.

But you have to admit I did kind of own you

[Ardez1]

[quote=“BlackFro;74557”][quote=“Ardez;74478”][quote=“BlackFro;74466”]@Ardez

I understand he hasn’t been released .______.

However from the looks of it, it seems he’s about to get owned if you are not very good with him
Kind of like how I owned you in stopwatch with sawbonez yesterday :)[/quote]

Doesn’t every merc look like it is about to get owned if you are not very good with them? That is like saying water is wet. Of course if you are bad with a merc you will get #rekt .

That was a really good point you made though. My personal skill or lack thereof really negates any argument or position I take when discussing Phoenix.[/quote]

Not entirely.
Like “steelMailbox” said above, he might have a bit of a higher learning curve due to his kit.
It’s not easy to know when to use dat AOE heal.

But you have to admit I did kind of own you [/quote]

That is the thing though. He ‘might’ have a higher learning curve. He isn’t out yet and all of this is just speculation. Besides, what are we using as a median for the learning curve?

If all of the mercs were rated based on learning curve we wouldn’t even know where to begin to place Phoenix because he simply hasn’t been used by almost the entire playerbase.

And again, That was a really good point you made though. My personal skill or lack thereof really negates any argument or position I take when discussing Phoenix.

[ttownjoe1]

well considering the huge hype and then the major disappoint in redeye (one of the poorest mercs in the game IMO) I wont be making the same mistake buying Pheonix, especially now that I see the heal ability has to be manually charged before using which limits your ability to provide fire support and on top of that heals yourself a minuscule amount and has a long cool down to boot. Looks like the 3rd merc release in a row featuring a non competitively viable gimmicky merc. Shrugs.

[Black2]

[quote=“Ardez;74560”][quote=“BlackFro;74557”][quote=“Ardez;74478”][quote=“BlackFro;74466”]@Ardez

I understand he hasn’t been released .______.

However from the looks of it, it seems he’s about to get owned if you are not very good with him
Kind of like how I owned you in stopwatch with sawbonez yesterday :)[/quote]

Doesn’t every merc look like it is about to get owned if you are not very good with them? That is like saying water is wet. Of course if you are bad with a merc you will get #rekt .

That was a really good point you made though. My personal skill or lack thereof really negates any argument or position I take when discussing Phoenix.[/quote]

Not entirely.
Like “steelMailbox” said above, he might have a bit of a higher learning curve due to his kit.
It’s not easy to know when to use dat AOE heal.

But you have to admit I did kind of own you [/quote]

That is the thing though. He ‘might’ have a higher learning curve. He isn’t out yet and all of this is just speculation. Besides, what are we using as a median for the learning curve?

If all of the mercs were rated based on learning curve we wouldn’t even know where to begin to place Phoenix because he simply hasn’t been used by almost the entire playerbase.

And again, That was a really good point you made though. My personal skill or lack thereof really negates any argument or position I take when discussing Phoenix. [/quote]

The learning curve is moreso in his playstyle.
Fast, close quaters, aoe heal medic, self-revive, is something new to alot of players.

Here’s gameplay of him in the closed beta and you can see that guy was pretty much owning everyone with Phoenix. It’s kind of far fetched to think that players are going to play as good as the guy did in the video.

[TheOrangePhantome]

@srswizard Totally agree.