Phantom - Why he's OP

(scorchingOctopus) #1

A couple of reasons honestly.

  1. He has a cloak.
    This is troublesome for 2 reasons: in a fast-paced game such as Dirty Bomb, seeing is believing and without being able to see Phantom, the game becomes slower paced due to the fact that you must always check your surroundings. Of course, good players will constantly check their surroundings but the fact is not everyone is a good player.
    Now for the annoying part of the cloak: it can soak up damage. The shield can single-handedly absorb damage from the following:
    “So, Katana light attack deals = 78 Damage.
    A Katana heavy attack deals = 108 Damage.
    Whilst refractive armour is active turrets do not track or shoot Phantom.
    Whilst refractive armour is active a Vasilli headshot will not kill a phantom.
    Whilst refractive armour is active a proxy mine will not kill phantom, he will survive the blast with full HP.
    Skyhammer’s airstike will kill a phantom if multiple damage proc hit, the first will uncloak and the next will do damage as normal.
    Arty’s airstike will uncloak and damage, second will kill him.
    Kira’s Laser will not kill him, unless he is standing in it for more than a second.
    List of Mercs: An x signifies they will instantly die upon a heavy attack. (Number in brackets shows health left after a light attack)
    Proxy (12) x
    Aura (2) x
    Sparks (2) x
    Kira (12) x
    Vasilli (22) x
    Nader (32) (Health after a heavy attack = 2)
    Sawbones (32) (Health after a heavy attack = 2)
    Bushwacker (32) (Health after a heavy attack = 2)
    Fletcher (32) (Health after a heavy attack = 2)
    Skyhammer (42) (Health after a heavy attack = 12)
    Arty (42) (Health after a heavy attack = 12)
    Fragger (72) (Health after a heavy attack = 42)
    Rhino (122) (Health after a heavy attack = 92)
    Phantom can kill 36% of all Mercs with one attack, most of which that survive can be killed with one shot from any weapon. I feel like Phantom should drop 20 health to that of a Vasilli he shouldn’t be as tanky as a Skyhammer, he should also be revealed by turrets like which Vasilli’s heartbeat sensor.”

  2. His health needs to be at least reduced to 110 or 100. 120 makes him tanky and unforgivable in terms of damage.

Honestly, the only thing needed to nerf is those two. He has an immense ability to roam around the map and deal ridiculous damage, and has a better ‘style’ than Vasilli in terms of recon. Overall, a nerf is needed.

(Malkovich) #2

So tired of everyone using the word OP already, I’m only here to say the damage figures you quoted are with the Chopper augment. Unless you purposely wanted to exaggerate to make your case stronger. Also, all of a sudden everyone is a balancing expert, but so far 90% of the nerfs suggested will outright make the merc useless against even a slightly above average player. I hope to God SD doesn’t listen to any of you, rides it out for a few weeks then see what the community still says.

(Eddie) #3

Phantom is kinda Mehh…

If i could however change it it would be

  1. His cloak does not tank damage. But it doesn’t drain energy when being shot. (His health stays at 120)
  2. His cloak does tank damage, It Does drain energy but his health is 100. However speed increases a little bit.

However i do believe Phantom is fine as it is. You just have to play against him more. hes new and it’s frustrating if you don’t know how to counter him. It’s the first day of his release wait a week then show your opinions.

(litheJacket) #4

all i need is delete my phantom. i can give 50k more credits for deleting this noob merc from my mercs. waiting in the corner with the game’s best smg is too much noob i dont wanna remember i bought this noob phantom. This game was skill based on morning. Now, how can i aim head of a ghost before he give me one shot kill.

(Fuze) #5

Right… Because it’s not like sniper rifles are insanely easy to use due to the lack of scope sway that is present in just about every other shooter. Because it’s not like Rhino covering tunnels and corners can insta-kill every single merc in the game, including another Rhino. Because it’s not like a kamikazi Nader can run into a group of players, get killed, drop martyrdom and either kill an entire team or make them scatter, which ends with Naders teammates killing them off instead. I could go on…

(litheJacket) #6

Right… Because it’s not like sniper rifles are insanely easy to use due to the lack of scope sway that is present in just about every other shooter. Because it’s not like Rhino covering tunnels and corners can insta-kill every single merc in the game, including another Rhino. Because it’s not like a kamikazi Nader can run into a group of players, get killed, drop martyrdom and either kill an entire team or make them scatter, which ends with Naders teammates killing them off instead. I could go on…[/quote]

I can see every merc’s head but where is phantom’s head? if you have skill you can kill every merc in this game, skill means “headshot”. all mercs have negative abilities for balance; rhino is fat for run, aura has low hp etc. What do you think about there is no rhino %90 of rooms? Why vassilis always has worst score? So what is phantom’s negative abilities, funny mask? Skill means level 40 guys with 30/3 k/d rate. But nobody can kill phantom with skill, because where is his head? Head head head, all abilities in this game don’t matter, most important thing is aim. When a phantom on your near you have 2 choices; find his head when he jumping moving crounching running inside you or die trying, press 3 for cut-back but change gun cooldown time enough for your die. When a phantom waiting on your opposite with his stealth ability and best guns of game you have no choices because you can’t see him but he can see your head and all his need was 5 bullets.

(XavienX) #7

Though this is insightful, I’m not gonna give you that because there has been a bunch of rants already. When Rhino came out, there was this too and now it just died away. People eventually learned to deal with it and counter…

(Nail) #8

heartbeat sensor defeats cloaking, easy

(Hexa) #9

Main issue of phantom is discrepancy between what Phantom should be and what phantom actually is:
What phantom is supposed to be:
Sneaky class that runs on the backlines taking out enemies unspotted, then disappearing back into shadows, should be fragile if spotted noticed but have means to fight back.

What phantom is:
Very tanky class which even spotted is extremaly difficult to kill as his active HP likely doubles that of Rhino’s(You can’t see him, armor cloak, he moves fast). Also equipped with Kek10 which is likely one of the top SMGs of the game.

Pretty much when you know that phantom is running at you, most of time you can do two things… Hope for hitting him in head multiple times so he goes down, or you spray his body while missing most your shots(he’s strafing and is invisible) before you go down from 2 slashes.

Furthermore when you’re trying to run away from Phantom it actually is impossible because:
If you try to make run for it he’ll either catch up to you and slash you to death or switch to kek10 and spray your back.
If you try to fight back and you won’t be able to hit his invisible head those 5-7 times you’re just going to go down in instant as while you’re backing off and firing, he’s sprinting at you with all of his speed.

I’d like to see people argue that you can spot Phantom, i’d love to see those people try their aim against phantom who’s crouching and walljumping around to make himself more difficult target(while invisible).

(Dommedag) #10

Phantom is not OP at all, but he is just easy to kill noobs with!

(scrub_lord) #11

That Reddit copy and paste tho…

(Ghosthree3) #12

Not a problem for me.

(Fuze) #13

As you can see, Phantom is just so OP that every single Phantom in the match got a 12.0 k/d like me… Oh, wait… It’s almost as if Phantom DOES require skill and we have been through this with a handful of the mercs already.

Is Rhino in 90% of rooms litheJacket? Yeah, actually, on release and free rotation, he was everywhere. The same goes for Nader and any of the mercs they newly released.

(scorchingOctopus) #14

@Ghosthree3 Well the majority of the players in this game aren’t you.
@Fuze Phantom is different. He doesn’t mesh well with the fast paced game feel, turning it into a slower, more awkward game of ‘where is he?’. Sure he is fun for the players who play him, but for the opposing team it is a pain.

(Gi.Am) #15

That list from OP is flawed.
Since he uses chopper for the Katana damage, I will do the same. Stilnoto Stileto does 102 Damage on heavy with Chopper and pulls pretty much the same amount of hits that the Katana does against every Merc (on heavy). The only thing that gives the katana a slight edge (pun intended) is its higher range, better quickslash damage and the multihit capabilities. But on the other hand the stilnoto has a faster swing speed so if you are in close hit range, it would actually pull lower TTK stats.

Also I call bullshit on the claim that Arty needs two strikes to kill him. A single Artillery will kill Rhino in one hit and has still quite some overdamage to spare. There is no way Phantom would survive.

And lastly I’d like to point out that all thoes survival stats are the absolute best case scenario i.e. he gets hit the second when he goes into cloak. But even a Phantom sitting in a corner will loose his armor. Running or even jumping around means that he looses it very fast becoming obsolete in just a few seconds and that is whitout shooting him to start with.
Most importantly he decloaks on the first attack, good for him if he manages to get in range and that first attack is a katana hit. But otherwise not that great, considering that in the ensuing fight he will become a Skyhammer with neither a M4 or an airstrike. And his armor will be 6 sec +activition time away considering average TTK that is plenty of time to kill him.

And thats imo the point Phantom is a great Firststrike Merc thats what he is build for getting into a good position and have the first attack. After that he becomes a average Merc at best.

(litheJacket) #16

let’s give every mec a heartbreat sensor because im not vassili and vassilis don’t drop sensor my way.

(TheExpiated) #17

@Fuze said:
litheJacket wrote: »

This game was skill based on morning.

Right… Because it’s not like sniper rifles are insanely easy to use due to the lack of scope sway that is present in just about every other shooter. Because it’s not like Rhino covering tunnels and corners can insta-kill every single merc in the game, including another Rhino. Because it’s not like a kamikazi Nader can run into a group of players, get killed, drop martyrdom and either kill an entire team or make them scatter, which ends with Naders teammates killing them off instead. I could go on…

Actually, snipers do require skill, especially to hit a moving target, granted less, but snipers are core to a good FPS. Martyrdom is something that sould go, since it was a bad idea since the original Modern Warfare, but an invisibility overshield… Who ever thought that was a good idea? Honestly, that is the only thing, as much as I agree with OP that invisibility changes the pace of the game to where it can become unfun, the invisibility armor needs to go.

(Gi.Am) #18

let’s give every mec a heartbreat sensor because im not vassili and vassilis don’t drop sensor my way.[/quote]

Well this is a TEAM based game you might want to have a few words with your vassili if he doesn’t drop the heartbeat sensor in a good position. And at that notion vassilis you might have to rethink your heartbeat sensor positions, gotta choose between seeing normal players through walls or protecting the surroundings of objectives (which is great more depth to spotting abilities).

(DMaster2) #19

let’s give every mec a heartbreat sensor because im not vassili and vassilis don’t drop sensor my way.[/quote]

Well this is a TEAM based game you might want to have a few words with your vassili if he doesn’t drop the heartbeat sensor in a good position. And at that notion vassilis you might have to rethink your heartbeat sensor positions, gotta choose between seeing normal players through walls or protecting the surroundings of objectives (which is great more depth to spotting abilities). [/quote]
Looool. And what is the good position my friend? Because as a Vassili player i would like to know. The chokepoint near the objective where i used to throw sensor so my team know where the enemy comes from and can fire back or behind my back because phantoms are constantly getting behind the line of defense? I pretty much stopped supporting the team when i see opponent play Phantom, and this is something i don’t enjoy because throwing sensors to help my team doing the objective was a thing i really liked to do. Now it’s pretty much impossible.

(Gi.Am) #20

Well I’m not an expert on heartbeat sensors, but a couple of things I think are worth a shot.

  • On or near the objective before your team starts to repair defuse enters the area, to ensure that a cloaked phantom isn’t sitting on it (keep in mind nades would do the trick aswell)
  • Near the objective when your engineer is repairing/planting/defusing to make protecting him easier for yourself and your team.
  • At the end of a flanking route.
  • Between your team and yourself (assuming you stay behind as a vassili) this way you have a easier time saving their asses when he tries to backstab them and at the same time you save your own when he slips through and tries to reach you.
  • If you are the prime target (and can’t relay on your team stopping him before he reaches you), use the sensor to cover yourself a couple of meters behind you, instantly move/turn around when you hear the spotter beep.
  • In the middle of a combat zone to prevent phantoms charging head on.
  • In your usual positions they are still good and serve a purpose.
  • In open areas phantom often uses his cloak to traverse open spaces.