The free rotation invisible sword horde seems to be doing just fine, topping score boards all day. I figured there would be a skill gap but the class is still incredibly easy to use. I think the visa card phantoms just got spoiled.
Phantom wasn't overnerfed
Jostabeere
(Jostabeere)
#3
Phantoms are on top only in low-level games where people have no eye for invisibility. I have had hard times with Phantom in 5+ games and after trying some hours into 10+ games, I have him up. I destroyed everyone with the possible worst loadout pre-nerf, and now I’ve got the best one, and I can’t do jack shit with him. He isn’t invisible as he should be and he isn’t a good melee merc as he should be. He’s just a merc with the possibility of landing first shots with an SMG.
robustWonder
(robustWonder)
#4
The only time I recently got melee killed by Phantom was when one was following our Phantom that just stealthed. I thought I was hearing my team mate when I was really hearing my enemies Phantom. I got stabbed to death.
Other than that he is too easy to hear and see and really only has an advantage against people who can’t aim or those without any knowledge of what to listen for or look for (fuzzy digital shadow).
Woohaa
(Woohaa)
#5
in a game with decent players a phantom rarely tops the score boards. Good players can easily kill a phantom now. you think he’s incredibly easy to use but it sounds like you don’t even play the class. Just one of those people that get upset when you get killed by him. The turn speed nerf needs to be reworked. It’s irritating to melee anyone even with other classes. and the visa card comment is stupid and ignorant. This game never was and never will be p2w and obviously someone has to pay for stuff for the game to survive.
Jostabeere
(Jostabeere)
#6
This.
Like 100% of threads “Phantom is too OP” and 100% of people replying “Phantom wasn’t nerfed too hard”
Phantom was strong, but never OP. Now he is nearly useless. His skill is bad and misleading with his role and if you play him for the guns, well, take a Bushwhacker or Nader, you’ll have much more fun.
LifeupOmega
(LifeupOmega)
#7
Who’s Phantom again? Was it that guy I stickied and left gibbed on the floor?
Seriously, he’s bordering useless now - it’s so rare to see someone play him well in the Min 10 servers.
Woohaa
(Woohaa)
#8
i agree i play nader or bushwhacker because the guns are the same and their abilities are much more useful. the invis shield was worth using to either help sneak up on someone or to absorb some damage so you could melee them. now your just shooting them which means you might as well use someone else who has a better ability
robustWonder
(robustWonder)
#9
Isn’t Phantom free right now? Even free people are not using him for long. I’ve never seen a free merc not get used a lot before.
SaulWolfden
(SaulWolfden)
#10
The biggest problem with him is the fact he was made more visible (when he was visible enough) and the melee nerf (which affects all mercenaries, not just Phantom).
RuleofBooKz
(RuleofBooKz)
#11
a good ghost boy player can still do very well in games so long as they dont try to use the old playstyle (head down bum rush sword swinging) that resulted in the nerf in the 1st place
Fleshpound
(Fleshpound)
#13
Do we need to recall that topic again??
He was overnerfed with visibility of invisibility and turn speed(which harmed all the mercs and forced all the players into not using knife as last resort).
Woohaa
(Woohaa)
#14
Honestly, when phantom went live i was one of the first players running around killing people with him. I was also on the forums about 2 hours later saying he was extremely OP. I posted suggestions on how to balance him out. Some of what i suggested actually went through, but i didn’t expect them to do too much. you can’t nerf the main reasons anyone plays the character completely into the ground. The invis shield and the katana are his main points. When both suck there’s no point in playing him over a different character with similar primaries that has a good ability. If they had only nerfed one of the two i think i would have been fine. But nerfing both was alittle too much.
Obviously the melee turn speed is silly. It not only made it really hard to melee someone but tracking them becomes infinitely harder. This is for all classes not just phantom. It just nerfed phantom more because he was meleeing the most.
The shield is only a bad nerf because it’s so hard to melee anyone. Since your now shooting more the shield doesn’t help you much except to get the jump on someone or to destroy sentries easier. Getting behind players and flanking them is easy on almost any class and being 80% invisible doesn’t do anything to help with that. So once again. Why play phantom over say nader? Atleast with nader i can flank players just as easy, get the same primary weapon and use the grenade launcher to hopefully kill half their team AND sometimes kill extra people with martyrdom.
Honestly, there is no good reason to play phantom over other classes and that’s the problem. He needed to be nerfed but not to the point he’s not worth playing over other classes.
Ottah
(Ottah)
#15
@OP
If you would actually have read the Phantom topics, you would realize what a silly thread this is.
Because none of us questioned Phantom’s ability to pubstomp, infact many made suggestions how the merc could be toned down in such a way that he would become less problematic in 8vs8 pubs where he thrives on the chaos and the general badness of new players.
You can already see some of his “OPness” (and “usefullness”) drop off when you start playing on the regular servers (not level 5 max) and on min level 10 you generally don’t see any Phantom players at all (pre free rotation)
And to top that off, many agreed with most of the nerfs, just found the invisibility nerf lose some of his indentity as a stealth based character (and thus his ability to be played against skilled players in comp), because right now hes not very stealthy and dind’t like the melee turn speed limiter as it made melee on him overly clunky (tho that is not phantom exclusive atm)
KattiValk
(KattiValk)
#16
Phantom’s only purpose now is simply as a pub smasher. As I said previously in a different thread, he needs a recon role, something to take up the E key that spots enemies the same way Vassili does except it’s just in his LOS and not some deployable he throws.
The invisibility still has a purpose when crouching in a corner, as it gives you a massive tactical advantage over anyone trying to hunt you. Though, I’ve noticed that Rhino players have horrendous vision because I’ve gotten away with some dirty backstabs when all I was trying to do was GTFO with my shield up except they totally didn’t spot me.
Alchimi
(Alchimi)
#17
Most of the phantom players I’ve encontered since the free rotation are bad.
Like, really bad. At the extent that I assume (hope?) that most of them are trolling for deh lolz. And they never use their SMG. Once they learn to do so it becomes much better.
All in all, I think the phantom problem has been addressed. He probably needs some further tweaking, but I’m now feeling that there’s maybe more rhinos than phantoms… (ok I’m pushing it but really the number of rhino’s have jumped all of a sudden. Even the steam forums are complaining about him).
livelyPebble
(livelyPebble)
#18
Im sorry but phantom was way overnerfed because his invis is practically useless considering anyone can see it through their peripheral vision. I bought him and I fell very ripped off that he cant really out gun 75% of mercs and his melee is impossible to use now because invis is so shitty. I uninstalled yesterday!
Ottah
(Ottah)
#19
On my first game of the day yesterday after rotationswap we also had 4 phantom guys ‘‘topping’’ the bottom of the charts with this things like a 1/18 and 6/22 and a solid loss for us LOL. level 5 ~ 10 servers OP
ShoNailo
(ShoNailo)
#20
My biggest issue with the patch that nerfed Phantom was the overall melee nerf. It made melee’ing on all mercs less responsive and less fun. Used to love bat-wars, now it feels clunky, like I’ve momentarily stepped into a console game with limited motion.
Un-nerf Melee, and let us play-test Phantom in that setting. Then let’s revisit the topic. I don’t think the devs needs to swing the pendulum too widely (like they already did). As it can cause more problems than it fixes.
Fix Melee, Test Phantom. Simple. If he’s still bad (which he is right now, undeniably), then hone in on his other traits, like nerfed-stealth, or nerfed-health etc…
Also, to the OP talking about Phantoms being at the top of boards in low level games. When you’re playing in 1-5 games, the free mercs are often the top mercs because most people in 1-5 haven’t unlocked anyone else… Devs shouldn’t be balancing the game around 1-5. They should be looking at where the majority of players are, and those statistics. Plus they’ve got their own data that they can pull from their servers, and don’t need your bias number feedback. You think he’s OP, fine, that’s your opinion, but your scoreboard observations are not needed, because the devs have that info already. You and I both see a much smaller glimpse of the overall picture. Assess the aspects that you can control, like how it feels to play him, or against him, etc… the numbers are collectable feedback, whereas the feel of the game isn’t.