[Phantom] Silence Zone

(gg2ez) #1

Looks like they’re back - Phantom threads (please don’t hurt me). Time to talk about Phantom’s utility and what he brings to the team.

It’s a pretty well known fact that Phantom is pretty lacking in team play. He can’t do much for the team, only useful for killing enemies. Whilst that in itself is a utility, it still relies on the team to work. In order to make Phantom chosen in place of any other merc, he has to offer something no other merc offers.

(Previously tone grenade)

Reworked after feedback.

Suggestion: Silence Zone
A small area around Phantom becomes quiet. It muffles all sounds coming from within the AoE to enemies outside the AoE. Cooldown undecided.

Could be useful for hiding the buzzing sound, hiding Rhino’s gun, ect.

Just a small addition. Feel free to critique my suggestion or add your own down below.

(GottaBeGreg) #2

Splash damage have confirmed they will not be adding a secondary ability to Phantom. Just letting you know.

(gg2ez) #3

@GottaBeGreg When was this? I’m pretty sure all they said was Phantom isn’t getting a spotting ability.

(GottaBeGreg) #4

Now I got to go and find it… fine I’ll go look. Brb.

(GottaBeGreg) #5

Eep, I stand corrected. Yeh it was no spotting ability. Too right. I shall leave ye be.

(Frogteam) #6

I actually like this idea a lot. People rely on sounds a lot, a silence/dampening zone with a smart team could be a lot of fun.

True silence would just be funny. Throw it on the mg, watch the enemy team fumble about wondering why they’re all dying when no one is shooting.

(gg2ez) #7

[quote=“Frogteam;108109”]I actually like this idea a lot. People rely on sounds a lot, a silence/dampening zone with a smart team could be a lot of fun.

True silence would just be funny. Throw it on the mg, watch the enemy team fumble about wondering why they’re all dying when no one is shooting.[/quote]

Doesn’t the MG make little yellow lines though? Ah well, that’s the point of the idea - stealth the team without making it OP.

(VincentRJaeger) #8

's certainly one of the more interesting ideas here I’ll give you that.

Would make mines and turrets a living hell.

(gg2ez) #9

[quote=“Jaeger;108172”]'s certainly one of the more interesting ideas here I’ll give you that.

Would make mines and turrets a living hell.[/quote]

Not really, if strategy serves me right, turrets are best placed in areas where they will be close to targets, keep in mind that you can hear stuff within the AoE of the Tone Grenade, but you just can’t hear into the AoE from outside. You’d still be able to hear the terrifying beep of a proximity mine.

(VincentRJaeger) #10

I see what you mean now, and I’m kind of liking it. I have doubts though, as I think that it’ll be a bit too UP for it to be used to it’s full potential.

I’m going to assume it has a radius and time similiar to a smoke grenade; it only muffles the tone but not the visual sense. Giving it some thought and I think that it would become obsolete - atleast in more competitive games - as a microphone will easily work over it. One player spots them and the Tone Nade/Tone AoE - assuming it is visible - and informs the rest of the team; I’m certain this will happen frequently because every player in a team will keep their eyes open and scout whenever possible.

In pubs, I think it would really just become a nuisance because a team is mostly disorganized and lacks communication on a higher scale. Maybe it works better for silencing attacks or the Tone/Turret combo, but I doubt that it will be used to max potential in a pub.

(gg2ez) #11

[quote=“Jaeger;108183”]I see what you mean now, and I’m kind of liking it. I have doubts though, as I think that it’ll be a bit too UP for it to be used to it’s full potential.

I’m going to assume it has a radius and time similiar to a smoke grenade; it only muffles the tone but not the visual sense. Giving it some thought and I think that it would become obsolete - atleast in more competitive games - as a microphone will easily work over it. One player spots them and the Tone Nade/Tone AoE - assuming it is visible - and informs the rest of the team; I’m certain this will happen frequently because every player in a team will keep their eyes open and scout whenever possible.

In pubs, I think it would really just become a nuisance because a team is mostly disorganized and lacks communication on a higher scale. Maybe it works better for silencing attacks or the Tone/Turret combo, but I doubt that it will be used to max potential in a pub.[/quote]

@Jaeger I think the TG should be a bit like the heartbeat sensor. Throw it on the ground and leave it to get destroyed - of course, it should have a maximum time limit (open to suggestion). There could be many ways of utilising the TG.

  • Hiding the sound of revving Rhinos.
  • (This one is for you) Hiding the sound of sniper rifles, possibly hiding the “air streak” as well.
  • Generally disorienting the opponent, just wierd getting shot with no audio cues. Reducing their reaction time.
  • Turret thing.
  • Ambushes.
  • Silent Picks. Throw down a TG near the enemy, go for a KEK kill, nobody hears the gunfire, nobody immediately comes to help.

Another possible scenario (in pubs): Enemies are distanced away from a firefight muffled by the TG, isn’t aware of the fight, enemy team is short of a few players.

Just a few ideas where it could work. I get where you’re coming from though, it does seem like a very insignificant tool.

(SpinnerzNQ) #12

This is good. I like this. Splash Damage where are you, put this in now!
But in all seriousness, one of the reasons Phantom is kinda butt right now, is because he’s SO FRICKIN LOUD. That’s why I rarely have problems killing Phantom, because I can hear him like a football field away. No joke.

(3N1GM4) #13

This would also give phantom the ability to sit cloaked in the area without his tell tale whir of cloaking. Surprise!

(signofzeta) #14

Make Phantom more silent, and make him absolutely suck when dealing with multiple enemies. Oh, oh, oh, make all his weapons have no muzzle flash, and make it so that it makes no noise. That would make him more recony, but as he is right now, he isn’t recony enough but he is still more recon than assault, as assault is good at killing multiple enemies effectively, as well as carrying heavy weapons, and Phantom can do neither, after the nerf that is.

(gg2ez) #15

You seem to be pretty confused and inexperienced with what makes a merc an Assault class.

  • Specialises in eliminating targets.

You don’t have to be able to carry an MG when you’re doing that and there’s no reason you can’t do it stealthily.

(signofzeta) #16

You seem to be pretty confused and inexperienced with what makes a merc an Assault class.

  • Specialises in eliminating targets.

You don’t have to be able to carry an MG when you’re doing that and there’s no reason you can’t do it stealthily. [/quote]

This is what you assume. You assume that Assault specializes at killing with disregard on how they do it, but so does Vasili. He has a sniper rifle. He just so happens to have the heartbeat sensor, so you made another assumption that all Recons can spot. You are basing assumptions on one role or feature, rather than looking at the merc as a whole.

Here is the unknown. We don’t know how Splash Damage classifies the mercs because they never told us their formula. The way you classify the mercs is that you assume that each class has a certain feature or role, and you sort out the mercs based on the features or role. This isn’t an accurate way to show how Splash Damage classifies the mercs and what makes each class what they are. We have one known. We know that Splash Damage says Phantom is a Recon, Phoenix is a Medic, and so on. I would then group the mercs by class, according to how Splash Damage classifies them, and find something in common with them. Assaults all have heavy weapons in common. Then using what I find in common with a certain class, I can predict how Splash Damage classifies the mercs, rather than pulling roles and features out of nowhere just because they have one or two things in common, or in the case of Recon mercs, in common with 2 of 3 mercs.

You may say Dirty Bomb isn’t Wolf ET, but it just so happens that what the mercs can do and how they are classified by Splash Damage just so happen to match the description of the 5 Wolf ET classes. Maybe it is on purpose, or maybe Splash Damage can’t let go of the 5 Wolf ET classes, and because Phantom is good at infiltrating, like the predecessor Brink Operative, ETQW Covert Ops and Wolf ET Covert Ops, he is classified as a recon.

Even with all his loudness, Phantom is still good at infiltrating.

(streetwiseSailboat) #17

[quote=“signofzeta;108486”]
Assaults all have heavy weapons in common.[/quote]

I don’t think Nader’s grenade launcher is classified as a heavy weapon.

(signofzeta) #18

[quote=“streetwiseSailboat;108487”][quote=“signofzeta;108486”]
Assaults all have heavy weapons in common.[/quote]

I don’t think Nader’s grenade launcher is classified as a heavy weapon.[/quote]

K121 Grenade Launcher and Minigun all reduce the speed of a merc so that it is 82% of the speed, therefore, heavy weapon. It is just that Nader’s base speed is higher than some mercs of other classes.

I can assume that Aimee will have a speed of over 420, which makes Nader the fastest assault merc, but pretty average when it comes to all the mercs combined. It also means that on average, the Assault class is a slow class. I also assume Thunder would have a speed under 400.

(gg2ez) #19

You seem to be pretty confused and inexperienced with what makes a merc an Assault class.

  • Specialises in eliminating targets.

You don’t have to be able to carry an MG when you’re doing that and there’s no reason you can’t do it stealthily. [/quote]

This is what you assume. You assume that Assault specializes at killing with disregard on how they do it, but so does Vasili. He has a sniper rifle. He just so happens to have the heartbeat sensor, so you made another assumption that all Recons can spot.

Here is the unknown. We don’t know how Splash Damage classifies the mercs because they never told us their formula. The way you classify the mercs is that you assume that each class has a certain feature or role, and you sort out the mercs based on the features or role. This isn’t an accurate way to show how Splash Damage classifies the mercs and what makes each class what they are. We have one known. We know that Splash Damage says Phantom is a Recon, Phoenix is a Medic, and so on. I would then group the mercs by class, according to how Splash Damage classifies them, and find something in common with them. Assaults all have heavy weapons in common. Then using what I find in common with a certain class, I can predict how Splash Damage classifies the mercs, rather than pulling roles and features out of nowhere just because they have one or two things in common, or in the case of Recon mercs, in common with 2 of 3 mercs.[/quote]

No. I don’t assume what an Assault merc is - it is common sense to know that an Assault merc’s job is to deal the most damage they can. It is their predetermined role as they serve no utility otherwise. I don’t assume that Recons are all spotters just because Vasilli is, I say that all Recons are supposed to spotters because the current majority ARE.

Get into the DB mentality for a moment and have a think about this. Assault Mercs all have abilities that damage other mercs, Medics all have abilities that heal, Engineers all have tech abilities, and Fire Supports all have ammo and damage abilities. It’s only sane to assume that the way SD classifies their mercs is by the properties of the abilities, thus making recon’s CURRENT similarities spotting abilities. Truth be told, Phantom doesn’t belong in any class - his ability cannot heal, damage, spot, supply ammo, or tech - but the devs have outwardly stated that his job is just to kill enemies, which ties him more to the assault side.

Don’t go accusing me of being the one with an illogical classification system and “pulling roles and features out of nowhere”, they come out of the mercs. You’re the one categorising them with non-material terms, I’m actually putting down clear evidence (the abilities) and you’re just saying “it’s stealth”. If anyone is pulling non-sensical terms out of the nowhere, it’s you.

Reminder: This isn’t a thread discussing the class system. If you want to talk about it, start a new discussion.

(signofzeta) #20

How is it non-sensical? Here is a FACT. Phantom is classified, by splash damage, as RECON. So you have to find something IN COMMON with ALL the recon classes, and yes, that includes Phantom, and that something is what makes a recon class a recon. A new recon class can have no spotting abilities, but have the abilities to convert enemy deployables into friendly ones, or ability to slow down an EV or increase the time for a C4 to blow. That is sabotage. Recons aren’t only about spotting. They are also about infiltrating and sabotage as well. It’s just that they aren’t done at the same time.

As I said, you made assumptions first, and you fit the mercs into these assumptions. Splash Damage didn’t classify only on properties of abilties. You did, and your assumptions are wrong. If Splash Damage did classify by ability, Phantom would officially be an assault, not a recon. Now back to reality. Phantom is a recon. You assumed that all Recon mercs can spot and you pretended like Phantom wasn’t a recon merc, which isn’t true. I use what is factually true, the fact that Splash Damage classifies Phantom as a recon merc, and find something in common between Phantom, Vasili, and Redeye. Majority doesn’t cut it. You need to find something in common with ALL the mercs without pretending something did or didn’t happen.

As I said, any class can kill. Your definition of assault is killers who are useless at something else. That’s true, but there are other features that they have, like the fact that they carry heavy weapons.

The way you classify the mercs isn’t the way Splash Damage classifies the mercs. Your way is proven false because Splash Damage classified Phantom as a Recon and you classify recon mercs as having the ability to spot, and Phantom can’t spot, so the ability to spot isn’t what makes a merc a recon merc. Just think about it. Is Vasili’s job primarily to use heartbeat sensor or to snipe? Do you keep on chucking heartbeat sensors every time, or do you spend more time sniping? Vasili is named after a Russian sniper, so he is knowing for his sniping more than his spotting. His spotting ability is secondary. What makes a recon merc the way they are is to give the enemies fear of not knowing where you will strike, because you can see them but they can’t see you.

Here is a fact. I played Wolf ET, ETQW, Brink, and Dirty Bomb. I pretty much tried out every class except stoker. Comparing Wolf ET to Dirty Bomb, when I played with assault mercs, they feel exactly like the Soldier in ET. Medics felt like medics, Engineers felt like engineers, and Fire support felt like field ops, and Recon mercs felt like Covert Ops in ET. When I play as a phantom, the same style I use when I play ET can only be effective when I play as a Covert Ops, not the Soldier. You can deny all you want, but the mercs of a certain class match the description of what Wolf ET describes for that class.

You can’t pretend that Phantom is an Assault, and you can’t pretend that Wolf ET didn’t have any effect on Splash Damage’s decision on how to classify the mercs.

How about getting out of the Dirty Bomb mentality and get into the Splash Damage mentality. They were the ones who classified Phantom as Recon. Now me, I am only using facts and reality and not pretending that something should be this and that and acting as if it were reality.

Now I wish Phantom had an ability that would make him more of a recon than he already is, but the fact of the matter is, he doesn’t need a spotting ability to be a recon merc. What makes a recon merc a recon merc is if it fits some of the description of the ET covert ops, ETQW covert ops, or Brink Operative class, but none of the description of the other classes in those respective games.