[Phantom] Silence Zone

[gg2ez]

[quote=“signofzeta;108507”]How is it non-sensical? Here is a FACT. Phantom is classified, by splash damage, as RECON. So you have to find something IN COMMON with ALL the recon classes, and yes, that includes Phantom, and that something is what makes a recon class a recon. A new recon class can have no spotting abilities, but have the abilities to convert enemy deployables into friendly ones, or ability to slow down an EV or increase the time for a C4 to blow. That is sabotage. Recons aren’t only about spotting. They are also about infiltrating and sabotage as well. It’s just that they aren’t done at the same time.

As I said, you made assumptions first, and you fit the mercs into these assumptions. You assumed that all Recon mercs can spot and you pretended like Phantom wasn’t a recon merc, which isn’t true. I use what is factually true, the fact that Splash Damage classifies Phantom as a recon merc, and find something in common between Phantom, Vasili, and Redeye.

As I said, any class can kill. Your definition of assault is killers who are useless at something else. That’s true, but there are other features that they have, like the fact that they carry heavy weapons.[/quote]

Matey, matey, matey, you just don’t get it do you? You can’t use the argument “because SD put him there”, when that’s what we’re going against. SD put Phantom somewhere, but they didn’t put him in the right place, that’s what the majority of the apparent and informed community base is saying.

A new Recon class should have spotting abilities, that’s what the word Recon means. Doesn’t matter whether he is “CovertOps”, if his official title is Recon, he should Recon. You wouldn’t call Fragger a medic would you? The merc you described doesn’t even exist and is irrelevant to the topic, even if it was in the game, it would be an engineer merc. Your expertise are lacking.

Phantom is only a Recon because that’s what he’s been put in, but in practice he has nothing in common with the other Recon mercs.

Saying that the weapons a merc has defines their class is like saying Fragger becomes a Fire Support merc when he has the BR equipped. It’s a rubbish argument. An assault merc is a merc whose primary objective is killing without a secondary purpose, how they do it isn’t of any concern, it’s the fact that it’s all they do. Recon mercs (and all other classes) can do it too, but they do it whilst providing support. Weapons may be a contributing factor, but a merc IS it’s abilities and if those abilities don’t agree with the mainstream of that class, it should find another.

Edit: This isn’t f**king ET. Get over it.

Again: Go make your own thread about what defines classes. This isn’t the thread for it.

[signofzeta1]

Again I am saying you think Phantom isn’t a Recon is because you are defining the recon class wrong.

You defined the class then you sorted out the mercs. I sorted out the mercs as to how Splash Damage did it, and I defined the class by looking at what is in common with them. You have to find parameters that make Phantom a recon merc and not an assault merc. Phantom doesn’t carry a heavy weapon, which is in common with all assault mercs. Phantom uses the ability to not be seen, which is in common with all Recon mercs. Assault mercs don’t have to have a heavy weapon. It’s just that they have the option to carry a heavy weapon. Unless Splash Damage releases a non-Assault merc who can carry a K121 or the MK whatever, then as of right now, this instant, all Assault mercs must have a loadout card with a heavy weapon or have a heavy weapon as a special ability.

This isn’t ET, but you can’t ignore it. ETQW isn’t ET. Guess what, their classes pretty much played the same role in each game. Brink isn’t ETQW or ET. Their classes also played the same role. Dirty Bomb isn’t Brink, ETQW, or ET. From what I observe, their classes also play a same role. Like it or not, the mercs of a specific class in Dirty Bomb is just a fraction of what the actual class in ET does. The 4 recon mercs is no more than just the Covert Ops in ET spliting into 4 people and each taking only one ability from that Covert Ops. Going back to ET, Fragger with BR16 isn’t any different from a Soldier in ET with SMG. Phantom would only be Assault if he didn’t have the invisibility ability.

I’m not saying what it should be, I’m saying what it is.

I’m also saying that Phantom right now doesn’t feel enough like a recon merc, but he is still a recon merc and in no way is an assault merc.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“signofzeta;108532”]Again I am saying you think Phantom isn’t a Recon is because you are defining the recon class wrong.

You defined the class then you sorted out the mercs. I sorted out the mercs as to how Splash Damage did it, and I defined the class by looking at what is in common with them. You have to find parameters that make Phantom a recon merc and not an assault merc. Phantom doesn’t carry a heavy weapon, which is in common with all assault mercs. Phantom uses the ability to not be seen, which is in common with all Recon mercs. Assault mercs don’t have to have a heavy weapon. It’s just that they have the option to carry a heavy weapon. Unless Splash Damage releases a non-Assault merc who can carry a K121 or the MK whatever, then as of right now, this instant, all Assault mercs must have a loadout card with a heavy weapon or have a heavy weapon as a special ability.

This isn’t ET, but you can’t ignore it. ETQW isn’t ET. Guess what, their classes pretty much played the same role in each game. Brink isn’t ETQW or ET. Their classes also played the same role. Dirty Bomb isn’t Brink, ETQW, or ET. From what I observe, their classes also play a same role. Like it or not, the mercs of a specific class in Dirty Bomb is just a fraction of what the actual class in ET does. The 4 recon mercs is no more than just the Covert Ops in ET spliting into 4 people and each taking only one ability from that Covert Ops. Going back to ET, Fragger with BR16 isn’t any different from a Soldier in ET with SMG. Phantom would only be Assault if he didn’t have the invisibility ability.

I’m not saying what it should be, I’m saying what it is.[/quote]

You didn’t sort out anything as Splash Damage has. There’s not a single shred of evidence that your definition of Assault or Recon is supported by SD and neither is mine, yours, however are simply assumptions based on other games made by SD, not DB itself. Echoing your words, you believe a Recon merc to be a merc capable of sabotage and infiltration, no Recon mercs can do both of those two things - Sabotage isn’t even used in DB, and even your beloved recon Phantom can’t do that properly, he can’t disguise, he just falls behind enemy lines to kill them - by definition, infiltration is the gain of knowledge, Phantom doesn’t provide that.

Your definition of assault is equally as wonky. You don’t need to charge into battle with a heavy weapon to be considered assault.

Your definitions are just as unconfirmed as mine are, but mine actually follows the general opinion of the forum community. There’s no right or wrong until SD come out with official statements.

Final time: If you want to discuss this further, make you own thread. Anything else following “classes” will be seen as derailing the thread and you will be flagged for spam.

[signofzeta1]

Ok, I made my own thread.

Your definitions are unconfirmed because you took them from nowhere, or you found some feature that doesn’t fit in all cases. My definitions are more confirmed than yours because I took what is factually true, the fact that Splash Damage classified the mercs a certain way, and took it from there. Maybe my way of thinking and Splash Damage’s way of thinking is not entirely the same, but your way of thinking is definitely not how Splash Damage is thinking. The results speak for themselves. The reality is Phantom is a recon merc, according to Splash Damage. Invisibility and disguise do exactly the same thing. It makes it easier for you to go behind enemy lines.

Maybe Phantom could use an extra ability to define him more as a recon merc, and from your opening post, his ability is by no way a spotting ability, and your definition of a recon merc is that it must have a spotting ability, but your suggestion in the OP makes Phantom just as much as a recon merc as Redeye or Vasili. As I said, by the way the mercs are classified now, recon mercs aren’t defined by spotting abilities and any future recon mercs don’t need to have spotting abilities.

[gg2ez]

[quote=“signofzeta;108558”]Ok, I made my own thread.

Your definitions are unconfirmed because you took them from nowhere, or you found some feature that doesn’t fit in all cases. My definitions are more confirmed than yours because I took what is factually true, the fact that Splash Damage classified the mercs a certain way, and took it from there. Maybe my way of thinking and Splash Damage’s way of thinking is not entirely the same, but your way of thinking is definitely not how Splash Damage is thinking. The results speak for themselves. The reality is Phantom is a recon merc, according to Splash Damage. Invisibility and disguise do exactly the same thing. It makes it easier for you to go behind enemy lines.

Maybe Phantom could use an extra ability to define him more as a recon merc, and from your opening post, his ability is by no way a spotting ability, and your definition of a recon merc is that it must have a spotting ability, but your suggestion in the OP makes Phantom just as much as a recon merc as Redeye or Vasili. As I said, by the way the mercs are classified now, recon mercs aren’t defined by spotting abilities and any future recon mercs don’t need to have spotting abilities.[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback on the ability suggestion, but I’m still gonna have to give you that flag for yet again steering off topic.

[signofzeta1]

The topic only went off topic because you had to reply to the fact that I mentioned that Phantom is in no way an Assault merc. There are numerous threads about Phantom, stating that he should be assault, or have a second ability that makes him more of a recon, but if you look at the merc classification differently, you can see how Phantom, as he is right now, can be a recon merc, and features that Assault mercs have to make Phantom not an assault merc. Right now, as he is, Phantom would be better if he just was more silent, less visible, but at the expense of not knowing how to deal with large crowds. That’s all I ask for with Phantom.

[gg2ez]

The topic only went off topic because you had to reply to the fact that I mentioned that Phantom is in no way an Assault merc. There are numerous threads about Phantom, stating that he should be assault, or have a second ability that makes him more of a recon, but if you look at the merc classification differently, you can see how Phantom, as he is right now, can be a recon merc, and features that Assault mercs have to make Phantom not an assault merc. Right now, as he is, Phantom would be better if he just was more silent, less visible, but at the expense of not knowing how to deal with large crowds. That’s all I ask for with Phantom.

And you’re asking for it on the wrong thread. Any actual input on the OP or any suggestions are welcome.

[signofzeta1]

Ok, Phantom, right now, has no Assault qualities, and he sucks at being a recon. The Phantom strategy is hit and run and ambush tactics. He is to be good against one enemy, but lose in a firefight against multiple enemies, and must be changed so that this is true. Because a Phantom would die all the time, instead of using the ability like a grenade, maybe it activates manually upon death, like Nader’s Martyrdom.

Rather than silencing teammates, because you are always behind enemy lines anyway, how about having an ability, with long cooldown, which when activates, sends out a pulse, and those inside the pulse will be seen as an enemy by teammates.

Ok, maybe that is OP. How about his:

Nerf Phantom’s armor, but make him completely invisible while walking, but somewhat invisible while running. Like I said, he is supposed to be good against 1 enemy, not multiple enemies. Give him an ability, that when he dies, he emits a zone of silence, that when an enemy stands near your dead Phantom, that enemy can’t hear anything, ok, maybe can hear a little, but the hearing isn’t as good as not being in the zone of silence.

If not a zone of silence, then a dead phantom can emit a pulse that when any enemy is near, disrupt the hearing of the enemy for a certain amount of time.

Forgot to mention, you preactivate the ability in life, and it activates when you die, and whoever stands near you becomes “hard of hearing” for a while. It’s kind of like your ability, but backwards in that it effects your enemies, not your allies, and rather silencing your allies, it makes your enemies unable to hear, which gives Phantom a use for dying all the time.

[KattiValk]

Why wouldn’t a silencing ability be on his person? He’s supposed to be mobile right? Deployables don’t seem his style.

It could also be explained by the cloak’s really loud noise (added to make it stealthier). I personally find “it got really quiet” to be be a lot scarier than “there’s an obnoxiously loud buzzing in my ear”.

[Tommy1]

I like this idea, I see you put some good thought into this. I don’t think this would unbalance the game, but, with a good player I think it would make for some interesting plays! @MissMurder Would you guys consider implementing a small change like this to phantom??

[Eox]

Should be an AoE around Phantom instead of a throwable IMO. It would be much easier to use, and give a reason to make Phantom move with his team from time to time.

[Naonna]

The silence zone only would have a use if Phantom’s constantly-ringing cloak weren’t so loud in the first place when he’s alone. The Idea of a fully revved up rhino sneaking around with a Phantom is amusing though.