Phantom is too weak :/

(GhosteyGhost) #1

Hey.

I have been playing DB since closed beta. The time when phantom was released he was insanely op and fun to play. I had like 50+ kills each match. Then he got nerfed - which is ok.

But nowadays you can’t play phantom with people above level 10… It’s simply too easy to counter him. Basically the only way to be good is to shoot from invisibility. But that isn’t really fun. You expect him to be a ninja with katana running around and stabbing people…

His personality is made up very good and his quotes are badass also.

I suggest that you change his invisibility. The fact that you instantly get 7 seconds cooldown and you can’t re-use it until it is fully recharged is a little to much. I think a phantom player should be able to use it even if it’s not fully recharged. But when he would use it, it would instantly add 3 or 4 seconds to cooldown.

So this is just a suggestion, but in my opinion every merc should be a viable pick.

#MakePhantomGreatAgain

(watsyurdeal) #2

Honestly, just make him fully invisible, but unallowed to attack while cloaked. Bam, perfect flanker.

(Tanker_Ray) #3

Completely disagree as someone who uses CR54(Drilled + Unshakable + Spares. the DREAM combo.), has 2.6kills/min with him.

Seriously, if you long for his good-old OP time back then, you better search where your conscience went.

He is one of the best joker card to break through Underground/Bridge 3rd phase with EMP, STILL able to assassinate someone by standing still in the middle of the spawn path by stabbing all female mercs with katana, even Phoenix with Chopper.

Too risky to stab Thunder or tankier mercs? Use your gun.

I can’t understand why are there so many people who are just obsessed with knife kills, but authority to shoot someone first, whenever he wants to, is Phantom’s biggest advantage.

Just stay calm, stay in unexpected place, and seek for backstabbing opportunities.

If you simply want him to be a katana-only guy in FPS game where eveyone shoots their gun, I’m sorry, DB doesn’t welcome you anymore.

(Tanker_Ray) #4

And again, please move this thread to merc discussion.

(TheStrangerous) #5

Yeah, we all been waiting for major balance changes, for ages. Last one was a year ago, not counting some minor tweaks here and there.

The developments is painfully slow.

(x3mytiz) #6

Painfully slow, right, but at least it’s bugless. Oh, wait…

(GhosteyGhost) #7

Just to be clear, I am posting this because every merc is useful on every map. It’s just phantom that can’t be used in open area maps.

There are still some fun games (I was 43/17 a few days ago), but it simply isn’t a good pick especially in competetive mode.

(TheStrangerous) #8

[quote=“GhosteyGhost;c-226095”]Just to be clear, I am posting this because every merc is useful on every map. It’s just phantom that can’t be used in open area maps.

There are still some fun games (I was 43/17 a few days ago), but it simply isn’t a good pick especially in competetive mode.[/quote]

The better question is: How does SD plan to balance him? We haven’t heard a word from them, for that matter.

All we can do is wait…

(LifeupOmega) #9

You’re not playing Phantom right if you think he isn’t useful. First shot advantage, EMP push with team through Underground/Bridge chokes, you don’t even need to stay in cloak, you just need to disable stuff for the 5 seconds your team will need to then pile in and murder everyone.

He’s not and never will be a melee-centric merc again, by design they just do not work with Dirty Bomb. Start using your gun, get the drop on players, disable everything for your team. Tanker has it right, but people seem to just expect a return to the absurd and yet useless condition he was in prior.

(Mc1412013) #10

[quote=“LifeupOmega;c-226099”]You’re not playing Phantom right if you think he isn’t useful. First shot advantage, EMP push with team through Underground/Bridge chokes, you don’t even need to stay in cloak, you just need to disable stuff for the 5 seconds your team will need to then pile in and murder everyone.

He’s not and never will be a melee-centric merc again, by design they just do not work with Dirty Bomb. Start using your gun, get the drop on players, disable everything for your team. Tanker has it right, but people seem to just expect a return to the absurd and yet useless condition he was in prior.[/quote]

He is also good for sneaking in to grab the emp. If your team has them.buosy defending the right spawn entramce and main entrance in front he can sneak in un noticed from court yard entrance

(ImSploosh) #11

The EMP and cloaking need to be separate. The EMP ability made him a weaker character to be honest. I’d much rather have the EMP back on Thunder.

Personally, and this may be a crazy request, I’d like to see Phantom receive a second ability like wall-running, or something of this nature. No idea how to implement this properly, just a wacky idea.

(Press E) #12

I probably have the most controversial opinion ever regarding Phantom, but I believe the EMP ability on him is amazing, and more important than his cloak. I actually use him a lot in ranked to disable mines/stickies/med stations, and usually secure victories for my team solely because the enemy’s deployables were disabled in a key time.

Imo the cloak itself is mostly fine, because it shouldn’t be Phantom’s goal. An invisible merc just doesn’t really fit this game, a team player does.
This is what I’d change about him:

  • Increase the damage absorption of the cloak slightly. It is refractive armour after all, but atm it doesn’t really behave like armour at all.
  • Change the disable EXP values for certain deployables. Say, ammo stations being 15, mines being 40, stickies being 50, and med stations being 100. This is mostly because an EMP’d ammo station really doesn’t help anyone, but an EMP med station can be life or death, and different values would help Phantom determine what he was actually EMPing.
  • Different sounds for EMP’d deployables, or at least something more noticeable. Again, med stations can be life or death, and not only the phantom, but also the team should know when they’re down.
  • Add a continual EXP effect for staying near deployables to keep them disabled, maybe about 5-10 EXP per second to make EMPing deployables to help your team a more beneficial playstyle.

TL;DR, Post-rework Phantom is more or less fine, just different, but most people aren’t playing him the way he’s meant to be played, because as it is players hardly get rewarded for using the EMP to its full potential. They keep trying to play Phantom as he was before the rework, and think he’s terrible because it no longer works as effectively.

It’s like noob Red Eyes topscoring just by looking at people when they can’t kill anything or help the team as much as a medic would. Red Eye isn’t the problem, it’s the EXP system that needs to be rebalanced.

(KangaJoo) #13

I’m guessing it’s because it doesn’t take much skill so any noob can do it.

(Press E) #14

I’m guessing it’s because it doesn’t take much skill so any noob can do it. [/quote]

It actually takes a lot of skill to actually get melee kills. I’m not talking about sneaking up on proxies and stabbing them with katanas, I mean actually closing the gap towards someone as they’re shooting to shove a knife in their face. You have to be able to dodge fire, get close to people, and not die from someone’s gun, or their melee weapon even.

I melee quite a bit. I don’t go melee only, and I know when to use my guns, but I like doing something different than just shooting people. It’s fun to give myself a challenge, and I especially love melee killing higher level players with high HP mercs with a beckhill Aura.

If you really think that though, I don’t think you’ve seen any actual noobs trying to melee. Or you’re just terrible at moving backwards and walking away from them

(Eox) #15

Moving to merc discussions.

(GhosteyGhost) #16

I agee with the idea of additional ability. I wasn’t really thinking of an wall run though. I was thinking of leap and stab. It would be pretty cool to see a mercenary preforming a long jump and then stabbing (unique). Maybe the ability would do more damage / you could preform it in stealth. I think it would be a great gap closer.

Right now SD presented phantom as a melee mercenary - in the scrubs video and when he was released (in the main menu). When you buy him or look at his profile you also see him holding katana.

So for a new player this would mean that he is a melee mercenary.

Let’s be honest, when you see a phantom in game, you can know his position even if he is in “stealth”… If you are an average player then you know how easy it is to just destroy him. Even if he tries getting close to your med station you will just spot him. There is no way that he does something good for his team.

I tried playing phantom on competetive and it just didn’t work. Enemy was always together and I couldn’t do anything as they would just spot me. Even when I used a gun I killed max one. I was literally forced to pick fletcher and fragger. It’s like with fletcher you can adapt to the situation. That’s why he’s simply better pick than phantom. It’s like phantom is missing something.

(TheStrangerous) #17

[quote=“GhosteyGhost;c-226142”]I agee with the idea of additional ability. I wasn’t really thinking of an wall run though. I was thinking of leap and stab. It would be pretty cool to see a mercenary preforming a long jump and then stabbing (unique). Maybe the ability would do more damage / you could preform it in stealth. I think it would be a great gap closer.
[/quote]

A Left 4 Dead Hunter? That would be amusing in DB. Save it for a good server mod “The Hidden”.

Veterans report that he had a similar ability, back in the alpha, when DB was slow paced, he only had a handgun and a katana. Even then he was considered OP.

(GhosteyGhost) #18

[quote=“TheStrangerous;c-226144”][quote=“GhosteyGhost;c-226142”]I agee with the idea of additional ability. I wasn’t really thinking of an wall run though. I was thinking of leap and stab. It would be pretty cool to see a mercenary preforming a long jump and then stabbing (unique). Maybe the ability would do more damage / you could preform it in stealth. I think it would be a great gap closer.
[/quote]

A Left 4 Dead Hunter? That would be amusing in DB. Save it for a good server mod “The Hidden”.

Veterans report that he had a similar ability, back in the alpha, when DB was slow paced, he only had a handgun and a katana. Even then he was considered OP.[/quote]

I never played left 4 dead though (I made the idea up). I didn’t play alpha either.

There are so many possibilities for phantom. Even if they don’t give an additional ability, they should atleast change the cd you get when entering stealth or remove EMP and give us ability to enter stealth more frequently.

(GatoCommodore) #19

[quote=“GhosteyGhost;c-226152”][quote=“TheStrangerous;c-226144”][quote=“GhosteyGhost;c-226142”]I agee with the idea of additional ability. I wasn’t really thinking of an wall run though. I was thinking of leap and stab. It would be pretty cool to see a mercenary preforming a long jump and then stabbing (unique). Maybe the ability would do more damage / you could preform it in stealth. I think it would be a great gap closer.
[/quote]

A Left 4 Dead Hunter? That would be amusing in DB. Save it for a good server mod “The Hidden”.

Veterans report that he had a similar ability, back in the alpha, when DB was slow paced, he only had a handgun and a katana. Even then he was considered OP.[/quote]

I never played left 4 dead though (I made the idea up). I didn’t play alpha either.

There are so many possibilities for phantom. Even if they don’t give an additional ability, they should atleast change the cd you get when entering stealth or remove EMP and give us ability to enter stealth more frequently. [/quote]

im still curious why SD didnt make it like red eye ability where you can activate it on cooldown

(GhosteyGhost) #20

[quote=“GatoCommodore;c-226171”][quote=“GhosteyGhost;c-226152”][quote=“TheStrangerous;c-226144”][quote=“GhosteyGhost;c-226142”]I agee with the idea of additional ability. I wasn’t really thinking of an wall run though. I was thinking of leap and stab. It would be pretty cool to see a mercenary preforming a long jump and then stabbing (unique). Maybe the ability would do more damage / you could preform it in stealth. I think it would be a great gap closer.
[/quote]

A Left 4 Dead Hunter? That would be amusing in DB. Save it for a good server mod “The Hidden”.

Veterans report that he had a similar ability, back in the alpha, when DB was slow paced, he only had a handgun and a katana. Even then he was considered OP.[/quote]

I never played left 4 dead though (I made the idea up). I didn’t play alpha either.

There are so many possibilities for phantom. Even if they don’t give an additional ability, they should atleast change the cd you get when entering stealth or remove EMP and give us ability to enter stealth more frequently. [/quote]

im still curious why SD didnt make it like red eye ability where you can activate it on cooldown[/quote]

It was like that, but they didn’t give him any cd for entering stealth. That was too strong.