Phantom Complaint Master Thread

(scorchingPainting) #141

Ive thought about this a lot and I think my changes would be this:

  1. Remove the shield and the invisibility. Gone.
  2. Keep the Katana where its at.
  3. Nerf the Kek-10, ofc, but let him keep it.
  4. Replace the shield/invis with two abilities;

First ability is a blink, probably over a decent distance, that stabs with its use, like a lunge. This means he cant go blinking every which way around the map, because he would have the finish animation on the lunge and might get caught without a weapon. Infact, maybe nerf the Katana a little bit, but give this lunge the same damage it has now, maybe a little more.

Second ability is a “tag”, whereby Phantom tags players that he hovers over for 1-2 seconds. This reveals them similar to Vassili’s skill, but on a single target basis.

Overall I think these changes turn him into a more mobile merc, suited to the game, useful for scouting and lethal with jumps. He cant run around melee-ing everyone and absorbing shots, but he can contribute to the team, he is a more regular merc, using his gun most of the time and sometimes just jump killing people, but not gibbing. This allows him to jump past the enemy team into Arua’s or Sparks’ in the back and take them out and maybe scout / gun down some of the enemy team.

The only thing Im not sure of is if these suggestions change him too much fundamentally, by removing the invisibility. The only problem is I feel like invisibility doesnt quite fit in a game like DB. Maybe they can find a way around that.

(Ghosthree3) #142

[quote=“scorchingPainting;42453”]1. Remove the shield and the invisibility. Gone.
2. Keep the Katana where its at.
3. Nerf the Kek-10, ofc, but let him keep it.
4. Replace the shield/invis with two abilities; [/quote]
So…delete Phantom and make a new merc?

(scorchingPainting) #143

[quote=“Ghosthree3;42456”]
So…delete Phantom and make a new merc?[/quote]

Thats my only problem. Do you think it fundamentally changes him too much? It feels to me like a blink would fit a lot more than invis. I just don’t think invis suits a game like DB TBH! Is the invis too core to his character? I feel like people are more attached to the Katana than the invis.

(Ghosthree3) #144

The katana is worthless without the cloak, you’d be better off playing stiletto aura.

(Aazhyd) #145

Most obvious nerf would be to increase cooldown. This would mean less invisibilty and shield time.

(scorchingPainting) #146

[quote=“Ghosthree3;42486”]
The katana is worthless without the cloak, you’d be better off playing stiletto aura.[/quote]

Not if you can jump at people though, from a decent distance.

(scorchingPainting) #147

Was talking with some mates about Phantom and we came up with this idea:

  1. Reduce the shield to 60/50 dmg absorb
  2. Keep the Kek-10, but nerf it obv
  3. Keep Katana damage where it is
  4. Nerf health by 10-20
  5. Shield is passively on, cloak is not. Shield has a decent recharge time after Phantom is hit.
  6. When activating cloak, you lose the shied. Visibility % the same as it is currently. When turning the cloak off you have to wait for the passive cooldown timer on the shield to start up again before you are shielded.
  7. Let him “tag” scout enemies.
(GuiGuiiii) #148
  1. Make the Shield and the Cloak two different abilities. Combining both is pretty unfair, let’s be honest. But by separating it, players will have to choose which is more appropriate. If they choose incorrectly, too bad. Also, the cooldown should be much longer and using one will activate both cooldowns, in my opinion.

I thought about that too and so I think this could be a very good idea imo. A bit Crysis nanosuit style, but whatever, I loved this game =P

(GuiGuiiii) #149

[quote=“scorchingPainting;42532”]Was talking with some mates about Phantom and we came up with this idea:

  1. Reduce the shield to 60/50 dmg absorb
  2. Keep the Kek-10, but nerf it obv
  3. Keep Katana damage where it is
  4. Nerf health by 10-20
  5. Shield is passively on, cloak is not. Shield has a decent recharge time after Phantom is hit.
  6. When activating cloak, you lose the shied. Visibility % the same as it is currently. When turning the cloak off you have to wait for the passive cooldown timer on the shield to start up again before you are shielded.
  7. Let him “tag” scout enemies.[/quote]

I like that =)

(Kaos88) #150

[quote=“boilingPeach;40912”]You hit the nail on the head in my opinion. To me he doesn’t fit the game. It literally feels like I’m playing a different game now and I’m not liking it at all.

I’m not even going to go into the fact if he’s OP or not. That’s not what I have a problem with. I completely fell in love with the game and now there’s a very sour taste in my mouth.

I like the gun duel game aspect of the game. I feel like every counter I’ve had was in favor of the one with the better skill. Phantom (and to a lesser extent Rhino) break that aspect of the game for me.

Second to that it’s exactly what you say, the invisibility changed the way you move around the map. The fast paced game is gone.

It’s such a shame. I really enjoyed the game. 90+ hours played in only a few weeks. I’m just sad really. Not angry.
[/quote]
Yup that’s my main point. A stealth guy just isn’t needed in this Tug of war game. He is just straight up cheap. It feels like a completely different game. No longer a skill based aim for the head game anymore. Even if i only die to him once. I don’t feel im given enough chance to defend myself and prove who is really better. It’s a class purely made for some1 who can’t aim, which should not be promoted at all. The people moaning about the sniper. I have literally never had a problem with snipers. At least they take skill to use.

This class is a noobs paradise, which is why you see a lot of people saying there is nothing wrong with him. These are clearly the guys who were previously getting wrecked by people who can actually aim and now finally getting the chance to kill people, so having the time of there life.

(avocadoTriangle) #151

I think that balancing Phantom would be incredibly easy, though that may just be my naive side talking. I’ve been playing him a lot since his release and I think his place in the current game is a hit and run objective stopper. To make this happen all that would need to be implemented is a health reduction to 80-90 to make the player actually THINK about what they’re going to do once they activate stealth, and a removal of the stealth armor. While he is in stealth he isn’t completely invisible, the removal of the armor mechanic would make him even more fragile, and make him require planning and team coordination to properly execute a flank and spank.

The issue is that the devs, for whatever reason, made Phantom a cloakable semi-tank with insane kill potential right after a release, with only one viable counter in Vasili’s heartbeat sensor. The tweaks I mentioned above could be implemented until Stoker or Red-eye is released to provide a more credible hard-counter.

(savoryLettuce) #152

Doesn’t change the fact that you obviously don’t know how to play against him.
If you have that much experience your post is just more ridiculous

(Kaos88) #153

[quote=“savoryLettuce;42904”][quote=“Kaos88;13737”]
I already know the replies i will get from this from Phantom fan boys ect. “oh you are just a noob who don’t know how to fight against him” lol i have played plenty of FPS games in my time and like to play at a high lvl. Not gonna name them all as whats the point, im not just “a bad player”. This guy is just cheap. Anything that doesn’t promote skill shouldn’t be in the game simple. :wink:
[/quote]

Doesn’t change the fact that you obviously don’t know how to play against him.
If you have that much experience your post is just more ridiculous

[/quote]
Stop coming out with that bullshit of knowing how to play against him. He’s not fun to play against simply cuz he is lame / cheap and easy to use and changes the whole game mechanics. Even when i do kill him he’s gonna be back a few secs later laming it back up again and i have to spend all my time looking for the little fucker again. I just wanna get on with the game and kill people i can actually see in front of me and see who wins. I don’t want to play a whole different way just because of 1 Merc or choose different classes now and throw the others away.

(Jojack) #154

[quote=“Soulfighter;40841”]1. He’s not invisible, you can see him very well, especially when he sprints
2. He constantly makes a high pitched noise when he’s invisible that you can easily hear through walls
3. He’s marginally slower than all the squishy class, even when they have their smg out and he’s wielding his katana
4. He only has one ability
5. His katana kills squishies with a single heavy hit, just like the stiletto prior to this patch and just like ALL the melee weapons with the +20% perk.
6. Vassili’s Heartbeat completely prevents him from using his ability. Can’t even use the damage shield.

If you have a problem with Phantom it just means you don’t have any awerness of your environment AT ALL and make very poor use of the advanced movement system in the game.
[/quote]

[quote=“Delta;40910”]“oh wow a new merc”
“WOW HE ACTUALLY KILLED ME, BULLSHIT”
“(merc) RUINED DIRTY BOMB GUYS, I QUIT”
every time, all he needs is an hp nerf maybe. He’s so easy to see, I don’t see (no pun intended) why anyone has trouble with him.[/quote]

[quote=“savoryLettuce;42904”][quote=“Kaos88;13737”]
I already know the replies i will get from this from Phantom fan boys ect. “oh you are just a noob who don’t know how to fight against him” lol i have played plenty of FPS games in my time and like to play at a high lvl. Not gonna name them all as whats the point, im not just “a bad player”. This guy is just cheap. Anything that doesn’t promote skill shouldn’t be in the game simple. :wink:
[/quote]

Doesn’t change the fact that you obviously don’t know how to play against him.
If you have that much experience your post is just more ridiculous

[/quote]

Come on community. People aren’t even crying OP. Most people are just saying that game isn’t fun anymore because he changes it. No need to belittle, shame or argue. 85% of players, according to all the polls in various places, don’t like Phantom in his current state. Developers need to do something about that. You guys telling people to stop crying or to get gud are not helping anything.

Honestly, I think it’s the people who haven’t played much this update that are doing this too. Those of us that have played a ton since Phantom’s release, both as Phantom and against, have noted a severe drop off in the fun level while he is in play.

Regarding every other merc I have chalked the whining up to inexperienced players because it’s been the case. Anytime someone thinks Nader, Rhino, Proxy, Aura or any merc not named Fragger or Sawbonez is OP it’s because they are just inexperienced and haven’t learned how to counter these classes.

Phantom is different. It’s not that he’s OP. It’s not that you can’t counter him. It’s that he changes the FEEL and the FLOW of the game in a way that is less FUN.

People really need to stop confusing the bolded portion with what is normally complained about being OP.

(DMaster2) #155

I have to agree with the OP, with phantoms around i don’t find the game enjoyable anymore. Thank god i still find games where he is not present and those are really fun. I fear the week he will be on free rotation.

[quote=“Soulfighter;40841”]1. He’s not invisible, you can see him very well, especially when he sprints
2. He constantly makes a high pitched noise when he’s invisible that you can easily hear through walls
3. He’s marginally slower than all the squishy class, even when they have their smg out and he’s wielding his katana
4. He only has one ability
5. His katana kills squishies with a single heavy hit, just like the stiletto prior to this patch and just like ALL the melee weapons with the +20% perk.
6. Vassili’s Heartbeat completely prevents him from using his ability. Can’t even use the damage shield.

If you have a problem with Phantom it just means you don’t have any awerness of your environment AT ALL and make very poor use of the advanced movement system in the game.
[/quote]

  1. Very well? You barely see it, and only if you stop going and focus on your sorroundings. If he doesn’t sprint it’s basically invisible
  2. I did hear a couple of times a whoosh sound when a friendly phantom near me clocked himself. But as far as oppo phantoms are concerned i NEVER EVER heard a single sound before being backstabbed to death. And i think my ears still work.
  3. He has ton more HP tho
  4. As if that’s a negative. It depend on the ability
  5. The katana have insane range and can cleave multiple people
  6. Vassili won’t last enough even if he drop the sensor to uncloak him. He just charge and slice.
(TheDoctorHax) #156

I was NOT expecting this to turn into a shitfest, but then again this is the internet. First off, I agree that the cloak is not the problem, the problem is that he can soak up SO MUCH of the damage thrown at him. However at the time of posting this, I did not have the merc. (Unlocked him 2 hours after though) and I have not stopped playing him since then. The higher level players have a really easy time with me because im really bad at playing him. But then a level 16 on my team went 45/2. So if a no skill like me can get 5 kills in a row and even team wipe by myself, then something might be wrong. I saw another post that gave a valid point. No one has adjusted to the new merc yet and the devs are afraid that if they were to nerf phantom in the ways some people have been suggesting, he would be USELESS. Which I can somewhat see.

(loonyTop) #157

Oh he can bee seen running towards you? And makes a noise? Except that’s not really how he is used most. People just camp, wait for people then go invisible, you can hardly see him, people are shooting all around you and nades going off and you’re on objective and bam you’re dead. If you’re lucky he does that woooh thing but so what? That just leaves you jumping and shooting hoping to hit before you locate him.

(deerMirror) #158

Hi there! New face here, but after playing Phantom for a couple of hours and playing against him and then reading forums and the subreddit… It seems like the big problem people have with Phantom that there’s a lot of situations where he will pop his cloak and run at you, cut you down and probably finish you off before being gunned down himself, or managing to pull off a double and or what have you.

And that got me thinking a bit, but if he were to receive a nerf of some kind I think the safest bet here would be to either remove the damage reduction versus firearms and keep it for explosives, or just reduce the damage reduction for the cloak versus firearms.

This way it makes it a bit easier to deal with him running at you with the cloak turned on and basically being a juggernaut unless you have a high dps weapon or are very very good at aiming, and he still gets to do his thing slicing n’ dicing and generally being the assassin he is.

(MethodOwn) #159

It doesn’t matter what sound he makes if I can’t hear it because the gunfire/explosions also going off in the area. I play Dirty Bomb with a TV going right next to my monitor so even if everything else in the game decided to be quiet I’m probably still not going to hear it, and being expected to LISTEN for this sound is more trouble than I care to deal with.

I main Proxy, and backpedaling from a running Phantom trying to shoot him, invisible or not, always end with my getting stabbed in the face from seemingly 8ft away. Maybe I should be using a shotgun instead of SMG, but do I REALLY need to change loadout to counter the ONLY merc that gives me trouble?

I hate Dirty Bomb right now. I don’t enjoy playing it with Phantom in the game. I don’t expect to be playing it again until the issues are addressed or a merc with a suitable counter comes along that makes it less frustrating.

It’s a shame because I’d really like to take advantage of the double XP this weekend, but I’ll be looking for something else to play instead.

(488s40) #160

[quote=“Ardez;40783”]While he may have some strong aspects, I doubt his invisibility is the stronger. That damage shield is too strong for my liking imho.

If your issue is just with invisibility I wish you luck, as they won’t be taking away that feature. He is detectable and you can spot him with your eye if he is moving fast enough.

Try staying on the move more. Standing still is a deathwish. Most mercs can outrun Phantom if you just stay mobile. [/quote]

Running away from Phantom is the worst thing you can do because the moment you turn away he’ll kek 10 you to death. The best option you have is to fight back and if you attack first, sucks to be you because his armor will suck up the damage, which means you wasted your ammo, which leaves you at a big disadvantage if its a long fight.

And the invisibility is retarded in maps like Chapel, 'cause its freaking dark thus makes it sometimes impossible to see the silhouette.