Phantom Buff (It does make sense I swear)

(Phantombrotherhood) #1

Okay, as someone who plays phantom and counters phantom frequently, I’ve noticed that he’s kind of utter trash now that he has 2 mercs serving as a complete counter, so I sat down and thought of a way to buff him while also keeping him away from being a melee god on the field. The only two issues I have with him are movement speed and his cloak, which I will mention as a potentially balanced buff.

  1. I feel his movement speed should be increased by just a little bit, enough to at least keep up with a skyhammer or other medium class, at the cost of say 10-20 hp, which would allow him to be the flanker he’s supposed to be.
  2. There are two options I see with his cloak right now, because honestly it’s in such a bad state that it needs to be reworked a bit, the first issue I have is always being visible even when not moving and having an enormous hum rivaling the sound of Rhino’s mini gun spinning but not discharging at the same time as being cloaked, and here’s where I’m sure a lot of people will find issues with the recommended buffs, I suggest either keeping visibility where it is, and removing the hum as well as his damage absorption, or making him completely invisible while keeping the hum and also slightly decreasing his damage absorption.
    Either way, those are the only way I see him being incredibly viable. I almost always get seen as a phantom or see/hear a phantom before it either guns me down or flat out cuts me down with a katana, but the point is, I see very little value to having him on your team unless someone has actually sat down and played him for more than 3 matches. Feel free to input your opinon on the suggested buffs.
(avidCow) #2

I was think about the hum the other day. It should be practically inaudible when he is not moving.

(sagaciousRate) #3

I have been 1 shot by a phantoms blade that many times and that’s in the past few days, and his cloak can also be hard to see from a far distance on maps like Dome, Chapel and Trainyard

(ASTOUNDINGSHELL) #4

how about giving him throwing knifes? he is a Ninja after all…

(Amerika) #5

He isn’t a ninja at all. He’s a crazy ex-military guy who stole refractive armor and considers himself a super hero or something to that affect.

Phantom is bad in pubs if you try to play him melee only. Don’t be the melee only guy and charge people head-on and repeatedly die. Phantom is bad in high end competitive play because he has very little utility for the team so nobody picks him. That’s pretty much the short version.

(Phantombrotherhood) #6

He isn’t a ninja at all. He’s a crazy ex-military guy who stole refractive armor and considers himself a super hero or something to that affect.

Phantom is bad in pubs if you try to play him melee only. Don’t be the melee only guy and charge people head-on and repeatedly die. Phantom is bad in high end competitive play because he has very little utility for the team so nobody picks him. That’s pretty much the short version.[/quote]

Yeah, if they at least gave him enough of a buff to do his job, then he could honestly be a great pick merc

(Grave_Knight) #7

[quote=“Phantombrotherhood;19986”]1. I feel his movement speed should be increased by just a little bit, enough to at least keep up with a skyhammer or other medium class, at the cost of say 10-20 hp, which would allow him to be the flanker he’s supposed to be.[/quote]…? Phantom has a speed of 410. Skyhammer has a speed of 400. You want to lower his health from 110 (which is kind of too low already) to 100 or 90? If you do that his speed better jump up to 450 or it’s not worth it.

I rather they return his health to 120 and maybe lower the time between activating the shield/cloak and it actually coming up to be more useful in combat.

(Phantombrotherhood) #8

[quote=“Grave Knight;107592”][quote=“Phantombrotherhood;19986”]1. I feel his movement speed should be increased by just a little bit, enough to at least keep up with a skyhammer or other medium class, at the cost of say 10-20 hp, which would allow him to be the flanker he’s supposed to be.[/quote]…? Phantom has a speed of 410. Skyhammer has a speed of 400. You want to lower his health from 110 (which is kind of too low already) to 100 or 90? If you do that his speed better jump up to 450 or it’s not worth it.

I rather they return his health to 120 and maybe lower the time between activating the shield/cloak and it actually coming up to be more useful in combat.[/quote]

If you have a Katana loadout for phantom, even with his melee out, Skyhammer is faster than him, and even with the best current phantom loadout you barely achieve max speed with your secondary out, which is quite pitiful for a phantom

(Grave_Knight) #9

[quote=“Phantombrotherhood;107600”][quote=“Grave Knight;107592”][quote=“Phantombrotherhood;19986”]1. I feel his movement speed should be increased by just a little bit, enough to at least keep up with a skyhammer or other medium class, at the cost of say 10-20 hp, which would allow him to be the flanker he’s supposed to be.[/quote]…? Phantom has a speed of 410. Skyhammer has a speed of 400. You want to lower his health from 110 (which is kind of too low already) to 100 or 90? If you do that his speed better jump up to 450 or it’s not worth it.

I rather they return his health to 120 and maybe lower the time between activating the shield/cloak and it actually coming up to be more useful in combat.[/quote]

If you have a Katana loadout for phantom, even with his melee out, Skyhammer is faster than him, and even with the best current phantom loadout you barely achieve max speed with your secondary out, which is quite pitiful for a phantom[/quote]

No. Secondary weapons reduce speed down to 97.5% which is the same as heavy melee weapons. Skyhammer is only faster than Phantom when equipped with a knife and even then only by .25 points (not even one full point). Furthermore the cloaking device when equipped doesn’t reduce speed at all so if you want to go faster press 4.

Did you even math when you decided Skyhammer is faster?

(Phantombrotherhood) #10

[quote=“Grave Knight;107604”][quote=“Phantombrotherhood;107600”][quote=“Grave Knight;107592”][quote=“Phantombrotherhood;19986”]1. I feel his movement speed should be increased by just a little bit, enough to at least keep up with a skyhammer or other medium class, at the cost of say 10-20 hp, which would allow him to be the flanker he’s supposed to be.[/quote]…? Phantom has a speed of 410. Skyhammer has a speed of 400. You want to lower his health from 110 (which is kind of too low already) to 100 or 90? If you do that his speed better jump up to 450 or it’s not worth it.

I rather they return his health to 120 and maybe lower the time between activating the shield/cloak and it actually coming up to be more useful in combat.[/quote]

If you have a Katana loadout for phantom, even with his melee out, Skyhammer is faster than him, and even with the best current phantom loadout you barely achieve max speed with your secondary out, which is quite pitiful for a phantom[/quote]

No. Secondary weapons reduce speed down to 97.5% which is the same as heavy melee weapons. Skyhammer is only faster than Phantom when equipped with a knife and even then only by .25 points (not even one full point). Furthermore the cloaking device when equipped doesn’t reduce speed at all so if you want to go faster press 4.

Did you even math when you decided Skyhammer is faster?[/quote]

No I didn’t math, I used actual gameplay experience, so even if it’s anecdotal evidence, I could still be wrong, but from what I’ve seen, he looks faster

(Grave_Knight) #11

[quote=“Phantombrotherhood;107608”][quote=“Grave Knight;107604”][quote=“Phantombrotherhood;107600”][quote=“Grave Knight;107592”][quote=“Phantombrotherhood;19986”]1. I feel his movement speed should be increased by just a little bit, enough to at least keep up with a skyhammer or other medium class, at the cost of say 10-20 hp, which would allow him to be the flanker he’s supposed to be.[/quote]…? Phantom has a speed of 410. Skyhammer has a speed of 400. You want to lower his health from 110 (which is kind of too low already) to 100 or 90? If you do that his speed better jump up to 450 or it’s not worth it.

I rather they return his health to 120 and maybe lower the time between activating the shield/cloak and it actually coming up to be more useful in combat.[/quote]

If you have a Katana loadout for phantom, even with his melee out, Skyhammer is faster than him, and even with the best current phantom loadout you barely achieve max speed with your secondary out, which is quite pitiful for a phantom[/quote]

No. Secondary weapons reduce speed down to 97.5% which is the same as heavy melee weapons. Skyhammer is only faster than Phantom when equipped with a knife and even then only by .25 points (not even one full point). Furthermore the cloaking device when equipped doesn’t reduce speed at all so if you want to go faster press 4.

Did you even math when you decided Skyhammer is faster?[/quote]

No I didn’t math, I used actual gameplay experience, so even if it’s anecdotal evidence, I could still be wrong, but from what I’ve seen, he looks faster[/quote]

That’s the animation tricking your brain. Because your arms don’t move around as fast with the heavy melee than with the pistol you think the character is moving faster. Believe me I have this same problem (doesn’t really matter though if I use the pistol because it’s the same speed). The only way you can know for certain is to time the distance it takes you to run from one location to another like from church in chapel to the ramp all the way down the street.

(m86edit) #12

if you have to chase someone with phantom and cant catch up, you should just shoot them.
i do agree with lowering the audio on the armor though. it feels like you can hear it very easily if the phantom is moving.

(Amerika) #13

[quote=“m86edit;107662”]if you have to chase someone with phantom and cant catch up, you should just shoot them.
i do agree with lowering the audio on the armor though. it feels like you can hear it very easily if the phantom is moving.[/quote]

True, but most of the time if somebody heard you it means you got to close. If I hear the Phantom sound there is usually one within melee range or very close to it. I will immediately long jump off a wall and long jump off it while doing a 180 to shoot (if this is possible…if not I just do a regular long jump/180). So any “melee only” phantom gets domed before they can reach me (sometimes comically so). So if you get too close you should be able to be countered.

That’s why I’m a big fan of longer ranged Phantom play. You can sit and kneel and watch people pass by then quickly take out 2 or 3 then escape/keep going depending on how it plays out. As opposed to running in with a sword, maybe getting one bad player or low HP player and then immediately dying to the other 2 or 3 around. When you stop moving the sound also goes away almost entirely unless you’re literally next to the Phantom. And in some areas of maps it’s impossible to see them.

(JJMAJR) #14

Phantom needs a buff somehow, but I think that he should either be balanced as an Assault merc as he is not going to have a spotting ability.

It doesn’t have to be much, since Thunder was planned to have a concussion grenade that’s more focused on knocking people out temporarily, but still, he needs area denial in some form. Poison grenades? Tear gas?

(Someordinaryguy) #15

I wish they brought back Phantom to “almost Closed Beta” form with some tweaks here and there. To start with, his loadouts: I think katana was his primary and he had a silenced selbstadt as a secondary. That would be neat since right now Phantom is “Recssault” that sucks at both. Furthermore his cloak was more transparent with no hum.

My dream Phantom:
HP:100HP
Speed: 435

Cloak: 6s with 6s cooldown (if used completly [lasts 40% longer when standing still, making him great at ambushes]) 99% invis when standing still (scales down to 95/96% when sprinting) no/almost no protection no hum ist picked by Heartbeat Sensor but not marked (but picked and marked by RedEye IR vision [indirect RedEye buff])

Katana: 2,5% speed reduction when drawn, 1.10x of it’s current “range”, 70dmg on slash, 95dmg on stab, takes slightly longer to slash, 1s “cooldown” after stab, insta-gibs on stab kill

Loadouts (with loadouts cards that could use it):
Primary: Katana(default/C94/BL61),Kukri(BL52/BL94)
Secondary: Silenced Selbstadt(default/C94), M9(BL94), Caulden(BL52) and DE.50 (BL61)

(Phantombrotherhood) #16

@Someordinaryguy that sounds like a great idea, because he can still be mowed down like now due to the lack of armour shield, and would actually encourage people to not just bumrush or anything, and they can still keep the turn speed on the stab locked down

(Someordinaryguy) #17

@Phantombrotherhood He would be amazing as ambush/flank merc versus lone players in CQB but suck at long range due to lack of good weapons. That’s how I play Phantom right now

(Amerika) #18

[quote=“Someordinaryguy;108180”]I wish they brought back Phantom to “almost Closed Beta” form with some tweaks here and there. To start with, his loadouts: I think katana was his primary and he had a silenced selbstadt as a secondary. That would be neat since right now Phantom is “Recssault” that sucks at both. Furthermore his cloak was more transparent with no hum.

My dream Phantom:
HP:100HP
Speed: 435

Cloak: 6s with 6s cooldown (if used completly [lasts 40% longer when standing still, making him great at ambushes]) 99% invis when standing still (scales down to 95/96% when sprinting) no/almost no protection no hum ist picked by Heartbeat Sensor but not marked (but picked and marked by RedEye IR vision [indirect RedEye buff])

Katana: 2,5% speed reduction when drawn, 1.10x of it’s current “range”, 70dmg on slash, 95dmg on stab, takes slightly longer to slash, 1s “cooldown” after stab, insta-gibs on stab kill

Loadouts (with loadouts cards that could use it):
Primary: Katana(default/C94/BL61),Kukri(BL52/BL94)
Secondary: Silenced Selbstadt(default/C94), M9(BL94), Caulden(BL52) and DE.50 (BL61)

[/quote]

This is basically the same thing as everyone else has said that makes him similar to the TF2 spy. Which doesn’t fit in a game that isn’t balanced like TF2 where there is always a counter easily accessible to all players.

It’s also extremely cheap and only fun for the players who enjoy that playstyle and very much not fun for the majority of players (see the massive backlash to Phantom’s first iteration which many have forgotten). Allowing players to be virtually invisible with no real counter and allow them to pick and choose who to murder over and over again will never sit well with anybody other than those players who enjoy that playstyle.

That’s why I want him to be fixed in other ways and keep him in line with the more traditional shooter mentality DB has overall and make him useful at all levels. And I want to keep him from being a controversial and cheap character that will drive people away.

(signofzeta) #19

Phantom needs to play in the same style as playing ET, ETQW, and Brink and using disguise and backstabbing enemies.

Phantom is a recon merc, and he is supposed to suck at area denial. The problem is that people are complaining that Phantom sucks because they are playing him like an assault merc, when he is supposed to be a recon merc. Recon mercs don’t charge head on, they flank and ambush enemies.

(Phantombrotherhood) #20

[quote=“signofzeta;108442”]Phantom needs to play in the same style as playing ET, ETQW, and Brink and using disguise and backstabbing enemies.

Phantom is a recon merc, and he is supposed to suck at area denial. The problem is that people are complaining that Phantom sucks because they are playing him like an assault merc, when he is supposed to be a recon merc. Recon mercs don’t charge head on, they flank and ambush enemies.[/quote]

He’s still pretty trash at flanking when people both hear your cloak, and see you halfway across a map