[quote=“Amerika;59264”][quote=“Kaori1;58946”]How dare people wan’t to improve the game by making it’s characters more unique!
You two must REALLY hate phantom I guess. [/quote]
I do not like the idea of a merc, regardless of strength, that will always get the first shot in and pretty much have no way to avoid a death. This game was not about that style of gameplay before Phantom and I don’t want it to ever move in that direction. I see unavoidable hits as cheap and I do not enjoy playing as that nor do I like being hit by it. Sure, you can die to random things in DB but Phantom being incredibly strong in both cloaking and melee won’t be random at all.
I want DB to be a gun game. Aim wins. Not a game where you might or might not die at any second with almost no way to see it or avoid it. That might be fun for you playing it but it’s not fun for me playing it or dying as it.
[/quote]
Ahem
Fragger grenade
Nader nades
Proxy Mines
ANY SHOTGUN
Fletchers Stickys
Orbital Lasers
Airstikes
Bushwackers Turret
Getting Sniped by a Rez Gun
Getting Sniped in general
Artillery Strikes
Now if we look at this now Phantom is literally the ONLY non support (then again the supports all have the option of getting a shotgun) merc that CANNOT oneshot any merc. With his ONLY method of one shotting being melee (with chopper and a 100 or less health merc to kill which they already get the counter that they can outrun you anyway) which is now too clunky and slow to even try to say it is viable to do.
Also do not pull that crap of saying ‘I play him ALL the time (Insert random bs comment to how he is still viable)’ he is not unavoidable you could see him a mile off before the nerf and only people who do not play him all the time, a lot of the time you will miss your first hit now and then get shot in the face.
[quote=“Azure;59304”][quote=“Amerika;59264”][quote=“Kaori1;58946”]How dare people wan’t to improve the game by making it’s characters more unique!
You two must REALLY hate phantom I guess. [/quote]
I do not like the idea of a merc, regardless of strength, that will always get the first shot in and pretty much have no way to avoid a death. This game was not about that style of gameplay before Phantom and I don’t want it to ever move in that direction. I see unavoidable hits as cheap and I do not enjoy playing as that nor do I like being hit by it. Sure, you can die to random things in DB but Phantom being incredibly strong in both cloaking and melee won’t be random at all.
I want DB to be a gun game. Aim wins. Not a game where you might or might not die at any second with almost no way to see it or avoid it. That might be fun for you playing it but it’s not fun for me playing it or dying as it.
[/quote]
Ahem
Fragger grenade
Nader nades
Proxy Mines
ANY SHOTGUN
Fletchers Stickys
Orbital Lasers
Airstikes
Bushwackers Turret
Getting Sniped by a Rez Gun
Getting Sniped in general
Artillery Strikes
Now if we look at this now Phantom is literally the ONLY non support (then again the supports all have the option of getting a shotgun) merc that CANNOT oneshot any merc. With his ONLY method of one shotting being melee which is now too clunky and slow to even try to say it is viable to do.
Also do not pull that crap of saying ‘I play him ALL the time (Insert random bs comment to how he is still viable)’ he is not unavoidable you could see him a mile off before the nerf and only people who do not play him all the time is a lot of the time you will miss your first hit now and then get shot in the face.[/quote]
You just listed a bunch of things that mercs can do. What was your point? If you are trying to say most of those things are unavoidable I will very efficiently point out exactly how they are not or where you can make your chances much better. Please do not compare something like a turret to you wanting to always get in a first and mostly last kill strike without being seen. So you might want to revise your list or clarify it.
I explained, quite clearly I thought, that I am not playing him as a “melee only” merc. He has a gun. It’s a great one. I use it quite efficiently while abusing the hell out of his shield. You are acting as if he is only melee or only ever used pre-nerf as melee or post nerf as melee. If that is your mindset then of course he’s going to be useless for you.
Aim and gun game went out the window the moment they decided to buff Nader. Although headshots still do the trick, almost every second death in dirty bomb is an explosive based death.
Now every other merc has a useful skill. And people are not even trying to deny anymore that Phantom’s invisibility is almost nil now. So people defending that Phantom has a distinct utility like you do, focus on the fact that his shield provides some extra health or armor.
Now Fragger or Rhino can soak up the same damage Phantom’s shield does and still end up with 110HP or more for the fight. But I know: you’ll say that Phantom is faster. Well guess who is the merc I main. That’s right: Sparks. I can do the same as Phantom. Granted I might get a dip in my health but my medpacks will quickly bring me back to health. Aura can do exactly the same with her station and even sustain her flanking position for a while.
Stop saying that flanking has been made easier and is now the realm of Phantom players because it isn’t. Flanking has been there since the start. Any merc can do it, giving that whoever is playing it has the cool head to think of it and execute it right.
Phantom has nothing special to him, except the katana and that one has been maimed to a point where I can kill a phantom with a bat on one on one melee combat.
I would personally like to see Phantom get a buff to how visible his cloak is while removing the damage shield. That seems perfectly fair to make him hard to see(thus enemies more reliant on spotting abilities) while at t[quote=“Lumi;59312”]
Phantom has nothing special to him, except the katana and that one has been maimed to a point where I can kill a phantom with a bat on one on one melee combat.[/quote]
Could you show me the katana nerfs you are referencing that make it worse then the bat?
There are two katana nerfs that I know about. One was that the movement speed was nerfed by 2.5%, but this was also applied to the bat.
The second is that the number of hitframes has been reduced to a fair level.
Overall the katana is still the better weapon choice when looking at pure stats. It sounds like if you can win with a bat it comes down to relative skill levels. I’d rather have it come down to relative skill then a katana = a free kill 100% of the time.
@Lumi Nader nades are easy to avoid and you can easily make them miss you. They aren’t random or unavoidable so I’m not sure what your point is.
I’ve also stated, on numerous occasions, how Phantom is very good at flanking by using his cloak/shield to ensure that you’re the less likely target and if you are targeted to get around corners without losing half your HP bar. Are you trying to argue that you can’t do that? Are you also trying to say that you can’t use his cloak to initiate gunfights first OR use it to absorb damage to ensure they will most likely reload…giving you a huge advantage in any gunfight?
You want him to be a “special” melee only merc. He isn’t. If he was he wouldn’t have a Kek or Crotzni. Phantom is not defined by his Katana. Especially since other mercs will get it in future updates. He is defined by his cloak and the ability to use that which isn’t tied to JUST his melee. And his cloak is something I also have an opinion about as I don’t like the current iteration of it.
That’s kinda stupid since one of the more distinct things about Phantom , IS the Katana, so why not just buff the Katana instead of tacking on some ability? If anything he should get an ability that does something to deployables, since no other recon class will have that.
[/quote]
Because the whole reason Phantom was nerfed in the 1st place was because no1 likes dying to melee as you can’t fight against it and it doesn’t promote skill, it’s considered a cheap kill. This is a FPS game and you should HAVE to be able to aim most of the time. Simply make his cloak the way it was before but only if they keep the melee nerf so he can’t turn into the same lame class he was before.
You still get the 1st shot off and he isn’t as easy to see as you are trying to make out to be. So no, he isn’t like sawbonez ect at all.
[quote=“Amerika;59309”][quote=“Azure;59304”][quote=“Amerika;59264”][quote=“Kaori1;58946”]How dare people wan’t to improve the game by making it’s characters more unique!
You two must REALLY hate phantom I guess. [/quote]
I do not like the idea of a merc, regardless of strength, that will always get the first shot in and pretty much have no way to avoid a death. This game was not about that style of gameplay before Phantom and I don’t want it to ever move in that direction. I see unavoidable hits as cheap and I do not enjoy playing as that nor do I like being hit by it. Sure, you can die to random things in DB but Phantom being incredibly strong in both cloaking and melee won’t be random at all.
I want DB to be a gun game. Aim wins. Not a game where you might or might not die at any second with almost no way to see it or avoid it. That might be fun for you playing it but it’s not fun for me playing it or dying as it.
[/quote]
Ahem
Fragger grenade
Nader nades
Proxy Mines
ANY SHOTGUN
Fletchers Stickys
Orbital Lasers
Airstikes
Bushwackers Turret
Getting Sniped by a Rez Gun
Getting Sniped in general
Artillery Strikes
Now if we look at this now Phantom is literally the ONLY non support (then again the supports all have the option of getting a shotgun) merc that CANNOT oneshot any merc. With his ONLY method of one shotting being melee which is now too clunky and slow to even try to say it is viable to do.
Also do not pull that crap of saying ‘I play him ALL the time (Insert random bs comment to how he is still viable)’ he is not unavoidable you could see him a mile off before the nerf and only people who do not play him all the time is a lot of the time you will miss your first hit now and then get shot in the face.[/quote]
You just listed a bunch of things that mercs can do. What was your point? If you are trying to say most of those things are unavoidable I will very efficiently point out exactly how they are not or where you can make your chances much better. Please do not compare something like a turret to you wanting to always get in a first and mostly last kill strike without being seen. So you might want to revise your list or clarify it.
I explained, quite clearly I thought, that I am not playing him as a “melee only” merc. He has a gun. It’s a great one. I use it quite efficiently while abusing the hell out of his shield. You are acting as if he is only melee or only ever used pre-nerf as melee or post nerf as melee. If that is your mindset then of course he’s going to be useless for you.[/quote]
Having 150 health like Fragger + a useful ability + a LMG or assault rifle is much better than a ‘shield’ that you apparently ‘abuse’.
I listed a bunch of things that WORK better and has far more destructive power than a slow attacking melee weapon, flimsy shield and a black haze.
The concept of stepping back and hipfiring is completely lost to you isn’t it.
A real cheap kill is a Proxy mine a corner turret or a Nader Maryt…
[quote=“Amerika;59322”]@Lumi Nader nades are easy to avoid and you can easily make them miss you. They aren’t random or unavoidable so I’m not sure what your point is.
I’ve also stated, on numerous occasions, how Phantom is very good at flanking by using his cloak/shield to ensure that you’re the less likely target and if you are targeted to get around corners without losing half your HP bar. Are you trying to argue that you can’t do that? Are you also trying to say that you can’t use his cloak to initiate gunfights first OR use it to absorb damage to ensure they will most likely reload…giving you a huge advantage in any gunfight?
You want him to be a “special” melee only merc. He isn’t. If he was he wouldn’t have a Kek or Crotzni. Phantom is not defined by his Katana. Especially since other mercs will get it in future updates. He is defined by his cloak and the ability to use that which isn’t tied to JUST his melee. And his cloak is something I also have an opinion about as I don’t like the current iteration of it.[/quote]
My point is that it is way easier to hit someone with a grenade that has a damage radius of something like a couple of meter, rather than an almost punctual bullet.
Regarding Phantom you still don’t get me. Yes he can flank well, but so can any other merc. And the advantages you’re advertizing are achievable by many other mercs or heck just by personal skill. You want the game to be aim based but apparently only that. It seems like positioning, strategy and risk assesment is something you don’t fancy. Because as a skilled player you don’t need a cloak to have the first shot. You don’t need to use a shield for reason A or B. You know how to use cover.
You’re just trying to praise how good Phantom is at removing someone’s need for non-aim related skill. What you call gunfight advantage is just an artificial bar lowering. Now I’m not saying that some people don’t need it or shouldn’t need it. But how is it that that makes Phantom special? Nothing that his shield provides is a useful ability to the team or for the objectives. It’s just self preservation mechanics that I believe shouldn’t belong in a team based game.
We all have at some point written on a thread about how someone didn’t revive, or only healed themselves or just gave themselves bullets. Now Phantom is supposed to be egoistical… ehm… a loner by design. Now I hate being useless to my team. And that is how Phantom makes me feel. Other offensive mercs at least let me barrage an area or easily destroy the EV. Phantom just feels wrong. Unsatisfying. A team death match designed merc within objective based game modes.
Regarding Phantom you still don’t get me. Yes he can flank well, but so can any other merc. And the advantages you’re advertizing are achievable by many other mercs or heck just by personal skill.
[/quote]
I’m sorry but with this logic…
Regarding Fletcher,Bushwhacker, Proxy you still don’t get me. Yes they can do objectives well, but so can any other merc. The advantages you’re advertizing are chievable by many other mercs or heck just by personal skill.
[quote=“Azure;59367”][quote=“Amerika;59309”][quote=“Azure;59304”][quote=“Amerika;59264”][quote=“Kaori1;58946”]How dare people wan’t to improve the game by making it’s characters more unique!
You two must REALLY hate phantom I guess. [/quote]
I do not like the idea of a merc, regardless of strength, that will always get the first shot in and pretty much have no way to avoid a death. This game was not about that style of gameplay before Phantom and I don’t want it to ever move in that direction. I see unavoidable hits as cheap and I do not enjoy playing as that nor do I like being hit by it. Sure, you can die to random things in DB but Phantom being incredibly strong in both cloaking and melee won’t be random at all.
I want DB to be a gun game. Aim wins. Not a game where you might or might not die at any second with almost no way to see it or avoid it. That might be fun for you playing it but it’s not fun for me playing it or dying as it.
[/quote]
Ahem
Fragger grenade
Nader nades
Proxy Mines
ANY SHOTGUN
Fletchers Stickys
Orbital Lasers
Airstikes
Bushwackers Turret
Getting Sniped by a Rez Gun
Getting Sniped in general
Artillery Strikes
Now if we look at this now Phantom is literally the ONLY non support (then again the supports all have the option of getting a shotgun) merc that CANNOT oneshot any merc. With his ONLY method of one shotting being melee which is now too clunky and slow to even try to say it is viable to do.
Also do not pull that crap of saying ‘I play him ALL the time (Insert random bs comment to how he is still viable)’ he is not unavoidable you could see him a mile off before the nerf and only people who do not play him all the time is a lot of the time you will miss your first hit now and then get shot in the face.[/quote]
You just listed a bunch of things that mercs can do. What was your point? If you are trying to say most of those things are unavoidable I will very efficiently point out exactly how they are not or where you can make your chances much better. Please do not compare something like a turret to you wanting to always get in a first and mostly last kill strike without being seen. So you might want to revise your list or clarify it.
I explained, quite clearly I thought, that I am not playing him as a “melee only” merc. He has a gun. It’s a great one. I use it quite efficiently while abusing the hell out of his shield. You are acting as if he is only melee or only ever used pre-nerf as melee or post nerf as melee. If that is your mindset then of course he’s going to be useless for you.[/quote]
Having 150 health like Fragger + a useful ability + a LMG or assault rifle is much better than a ‘shield’ that you apparently ‘abuse’.
I listed a bunch of things that WORK better and has far more destructive power than a slow attacking melee weapon, flimsy shield and a black haze.
The concept of stepping back and hipfiring is completely lost to you isn’t it.
A real cheap kill is a Proxy mine a corner turret or a Nader Maryt…
[/quote]
Phantom and Fragger are not the same class of mercs. So I’m not sure what your point is. Especially since a person could make a list of pros/cons for every merc vs. another merc that ends up just being a game feature list instead of a balance disucssion. We’re talking about how he plays and how much of an advantage it is to get in the first shot and how good that is overall. Which is much easier to do with Phantom even without melee.
I don’t understand your point about stepping back and hipfiring. My whole point revolves around how good Phantom is at being able to fire first or abuse shields to put the fight in his favor. So could you please clarify? And please attempt to be less condescending and simply explain what you mean. Making assumptions during an argument is typically something that somebody who does not believe in their own point falls back on. So please, avoid the passive aggressiveness and move on to what you mean.
Proxy mines that you can hear and you pretty much always know where they are planted are cheap? Turrets you can hear and almost always know where they are planted are cheap? Nader martyrdom you can long jump away from easily with no damage at all is cheap? Sure, you’ll die to these abilities sometimes but having good situational awareness and game sense allows you to easily avoid most deaths. Your lack of game sense doesn’t make something cheap. It just means you need some more experience in picking those things out. Martyrdom is the only ability that has one or two situations where it’s “cheap” but that usually ends up boiling down to bad luck and isn’t very frequent. I can give multiple examples if needed.
Regarding Phantom you still don’t get me. Yes he can flank well, but so can any other merc. And the advantages you’re advertizing are achievable by many other mercs or heck just by personal skill.
[/quote]
I’m sorry but with this logic…
Regarding Fletcher,Bushwhacker, Proxy you still don’t get me. Yes they can do objectives well, but so can any other merc. The advantages you’re advertizing are chievable by many other mercs or heck just by personal skill.
Should we buff them too!?!?!?![/quote]
Sorry, but taking twice as long, doing the one thing the whole game revoles around, with no way to close that gap. Is not what I would call on the same level not by a long shot.
On top of that, engineers all get another ability that will net them kills without even having to resort to combat.
I think what bothers me the most about the current cloak is that for all the things it gives you. it is pilling just as much drawbacks unto phantom.
The visibilty right now as stated enough doesn’t make you that sneaky even worse if you want to be less visible you gotta stand still or not move at all.
Now that works great in other games to balance invisibility out, no doubt. But DB hinges quite heavily on getting around a map fast, and having to slow down in this regards is bad (just look at Rhino). But even if you manage to stay invisible as soon as someone is in close range the cloak screams phantom is nearby, better get ready for combat.
I understand why it is this way in both cases. I don’t mind being late to the party, when it means I will have a high chance of dealing a gamechanging blow (I have to because my team has to fight a 4 vs 5 in the beginning).
Everyone deserves at least a last ditch chance of avoiding getting instakilled, grenades you see coming, mines you hear (and see), only fair to hear Phantom before he stabs you. On the other hand Vassili doesn’t give out warning (maybe some visual cue? laserpointer while being scoped in?).
While I still hold that ranged phantom first / melee maybe, clashes pretty hard with the brochure I don’t mind playing that way. But quite frankly regulary shooting people even with the advantage of shooting first or using the cloak as a protective curtain, while reloading and other little helpers. Is a pale advantage, for all the shortcomings he suffers (including zero ability of helping his team in any way).
[quote=“Lumi;59371”][quote=“Amerika;59322”]@Lumi Nader nades are easy to avoid and you can easily make them miss you. They aren’t random or unavoidable so I’m not sure what your point is.
I’ve also stated, on numerous occasions, how Phantom is very good at flanking by using his cloak/shield to ensure that you’re the less likely target and if you are targeted to get around corners without losing half your HP bar. Are you trying to argue that you can’t do that? Are you also trying to say that you can’t use his cloak to initiate gunfights first OR use it to absorb damage to ensure they will most likely reload…giving you a huge advantage in any gunfight?
You want him to be a “special” melee only merc. He isn’t. If he was he wouldn’t have a Kek or Crotzni. Phantom is not defined by his Katana. Especially since other mercs will get it in future updates. He is defined by his cloak and the ability to use that which isn’t tied to JUST his melee. And his cloak is something I also have an opinion about as I don’t like the current iteration of it.[/quote]
My point is that it is way easier to hit someone with a grenade that has a damage radius of something like a couple of meter, rather than an almost punctual bullet.
Regarding Phantom you still don’t get me. Yes he can flank well, but so can any other merc. And the advantages you’re advertizing are achievable by many other mercs or heck just by personal skill. You want the game to be aim based but apparently only that. It seems like positioning, strategy and risk assesment is something you don’t fancy. Because as a skilled player you don’t need a cloak to have the first shot. You don’t need to use a shield for reason A or B. You know how to use cover.
You’re just trying to praise how good Phantom is at removing someone’s need for non-aim related skill. What you call gunfight advantage is just an artificial bar lowering. Now I’m not saying that some people don’t need it or shouldn’t need it. But how is it that that makes Phantom special? Nothing that his shield provides is a useful ability to the team or for the objectives. It’s just self preservation mechanics that I believe shouldn’t belong in a team based game.
We all have at some point written on a thread about how someone didn’t revive, or only healed themselves or just gave themselves bullets. Now Phantom is supposed to be egoistical… ehm… a loner by design. Now I hate being useless to my team. And that is how Phantom makes me feel. Other offensive mercs at least let me barrage an area or easily destroy the EV. Phantom just feels wrong. Unsatisfying. A team death match designed merc within objective based game modes.[/quote]
I completely disagree. Bad Nader’s spam nades first and typically forget that they have a gun. Talk to any player who plays at the higher end of competition and they will tell you this. The Crotzni on Nader will net you incredibly more kills than her nades. Yes, you might get lucky kills but they will lucky and many times shooting your gun would have killed them faster and either let you move on to the next target or let you survive since you killed faster. Her nades are area of denial weapon first and a kill weapon second. You clear areas with them and force people into bad situations + chip away HP if you didn’t kill while you mow them down. That’s how every good Nader plays.
How does a merc flank without taking any real damage? Your argument is every other merc can flank. But every other merc can revive and every other merc can do objectives. Just some do it better and have obvious advantages.
You tell me that I don’t understand yet I’m the one who uses his melee when it makes sense and I use his gun when it makes sense. You appear to want his melee to only be good. And you want to get kills without people knowing you’re there. That’s just cheap and not needed in a game like this. I know it’s a gameplay mechanic that appeals to people but it’s not a fun mechanic for a good portion of the playerbase which was put on demonstration when he first came out.
Except people get picked off by players they didn’t know where there all the time. Cloaking makes it a bit easier to do so as a given but it’s not much different unless there’s no possible way to detect ‘invisible’ enemies.
I don’t think the outcry necessarily was all on the invisibility itself, it was more of that it acted as extra health on top of phantom having really good SMGs (Kek being considered the best in the game by many) and exceptional melee. The entire package was too much altogether for the majority of the playerbase.
Even then he wasn’t a superstar, there were a lot of strong points to his not-so usefulness to a team over other mercs.
That’s kinda stupid since one of the more distinct things about Phantom , IS the Katana, so why not just buff the Katana instead of tacking on some ability? If anything he should get an ability that does something to deployables, since no other recon class will have that.
[/quote]
Easy, Because people would b*tch about the Katana being op. With what I’m suggesting the Katana (or knife) will get a temporary buff instead of a permanent attack increase thus Phantom’s “killing sprees” would be as unique as Skyhammer’s Air Strike.
How is the katana a hard to use melee weapon?
and
The katana is only currently exclusive to Phantom. Other mercs will be getting access to it in the future.[/quote]
it would be ridiculous if anyone else then Kira or Phantom would be swinging around with a katana.
I mean i dont see a katana wielding aura.
Heres a idea:Just take away all phantoms primary weapons
Then give him secondaries instead (like sparks)
Leave the noise from the cloak
Get reduce his HP to 100
Make him completely invisible while cloaked
Give him his katana
Then give him a cheeseburger (hes american)
Then we all happy!
How is the katana a hard to use melee weapon?
and
The katana is only currently exclusive to Phantom. Other mercs will be getting access to it in the future.[/quote]
it would be ridiculous if anyone else then Kira or Phantom would be swinging around with a katana.
I mean i dont see a katana wielding aura.
[/quote]
Why? last time I checked katanas are not limited to specific DNA sequences (otherwise phantom shouldn’t be getting it either), and as far as I heard at one point in the developing everyone had a katana (they didn’t have a cricketbat back then and it was the standard heavy melee weapon). SamurArty was a thing.
Personaly I like a temporary damage buff and have suggested one in the past.
I would tie it to his cloak, the attack that breaks his cloak gets a nice fat damage amplify (lets say 50% maybe more).
This would solidify Phantoms role as a picking class (recon after all) and would shift his playstyle back to melee. 50% increase on a 90 damage swing, is better than a 50% damage increase on a single 12 damage bullet, without making it OP.
He can kill one but has to wait for another, cloaking to get the buff again. Preventing him from wiping out a full team without a chance of retaliation. Likewise it would keep his ranged capability intact (infact they would as well benefit from it slightly).
Since it increases the damage of all weapons, all loadouts stay viable as long as the weapons are balanced against each other (tho it shifts a bit to high per attack weapons, like katana/stilnoto and blishlok over the other smgs).
It would give both sides of the coin a larger reward, by giving Phantom a large bonus to be stealthy and reaching his target. Likewise rewarding the enemy more for decloaking phantom, not only making him visible and easier to kill, but also denying him his damage potential.
And it would give a ton of balancing screws for tweaking without destroying his identity (higher/lower damage amplify; longer/shorter, static/dynamic cooldown; better/worse visibilty/audiocues).
I have to say I agree with the post-nerf complaints on Phantom.
I didn’t play him pre-nerf, but I didn’t play against him plenty of times. Since I played almost exclusively as Sparks at the time, and I could spot at 1v1 him about half the time, I had no issues with Phantom other than the armor aspect of his ability (it felt a bit OP to me, but nothing really worth raging at)
Anyways, noticed how ‘meh’ phantoms were post nerf, decided to pick him up and try him out myself, since I’m working towards unlocking all mercs (I thought, ‘what the hell, might as well.’) Wanted to see things from another perspective this time…
[quote=“Amerika;59435”][quote=“Azure;59367”][quote=“Amerika;59309”][quote=“Azure;59304”][quote=“Amerika;59264”][quote=“Kaori1;58946”]How dare people wan’t to improve the game by making it’s characters more unique!
You two must REALLY hate phantom I guess. [/quote]
I do not like the idea of a merc, regardless of strength, that will always get the first shot in and pretty much have no way to avoid a death. This game was not about that style of gameplay before Phantom and I don’t want it to ever move in that direction. I see unavoidable hits as cheap and I do not enjoy playing as that nor do I like being hit by it. Sure, you can die to random things in DB but Phantom being incredibly strong in both cloaking and melee won’t be random at all.
I want DB to be a gun game. Aim wins. Not a game where you might or might not die at any second with almost no way to see it or avoid it. That might be fun for you playing it but it’s not fun for me playing it or dying as it.
[/quote]
Ahem
Fragger grenade
Nader nades
Proxy Mines
ANY SHOTGUN
Fletchers Stickys
Orbital Lasers
Airstikes
Bushwackers Turret
Getting Sniped by a Rez Gun
Getting Sniped in general
Artillery Strikes
Now if we look at this now Phantom is literally the ONLY non support (then again the supports all have the option of getting a shotgun) merc that CANNOT oneshot any merc. With his ONLY method of one shotting being melee which is now too clunky and slow to even try to say it is viable to do.
Also do not pull that crap of saying ‘I play him ALL the time (Insert random bs comment to how he is still viable)’ he is not unavoidable you could see him a mile off before the nerf and only people who do not play him all the time is a lot of the time you will miss your first hit now and then get shot in the face.[/quote]
You just listed a bunch of things that mercs can do. What was your point? If you are trying to say most of those things are unavoidable I will very efficiently point out exactly how they are not or where you can make your chances much better. Please do not compare something like a turret to you wanting to always get in a first and mostly last kill strike without being seen. So you might want to revise your list or clarify it.
I explained, quite clearly I thought, that I am not playing him as a “melee only” merc. He has a gun. It’s a great one. I use it quite efficiently while abusing the hell out of his shield. You are acting as if he is only melee or only ever used pre-nerf as melee or post nerf as melee. If that is your mindset then of course he’s going to be useless for you.[/quote]
Having 150 health like Fragger + a useful ability + a LMG or assault rifle is much better than a ‘shield’ that you apparently ‘abuse’.
I listed a bunch of things that WORK better and has far more destructive power than a slow attacking melee weapon, flimsy shield and a black haze.
The concept of stepping back and hipfiring is completely lost to you isn’t it.
A real cheap kill is a Proxy mine a corner turret or a Nader Maryt…
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Phantom and Fragger are not the same class of mercs. So I’m not sure what your point is. Especially since a person could make a list of pros/cons for every merc vs. another merc that ends up just being a game feature list instead of a balance disucssion. We’re talking about how he plays and how much of an advantage it is to get in the first shot and how good that is overall. Which is much easier to do with Phantom even without melee.
I don’t understand your point about stepping back and hipfiring. My whole point revolves around how good Phantom is at being able to fire first or abuse shields to put the fight in his favor. So could you please clarify? And please attempt to be less condescending and simply explain what you mean. Making assumptions during an argument is typically something that somebody who does not believe in their own point falls back on. So please, avoid the passive aggressiveness and move on to what you mean.
Proxy mines that you can hear and you pretty much always know where they are planted are cheap? Turrets you can hear and almost always know where they are planted are cheap? Nader martyrdom you can long jump away from easily with no damage at all is cheap? Sure, you’ll die to these abilities sometimes but having good situational awareness and game sense allows you to easily avoid most deaths. Your lack of game sense doesn’t make something cheap. It just means you need some more experience in picking those things out. Martyrdom is the only ability that has one or two situations where it’s “cheap” but that usually ends up boiling down to bad luck and isn’t very frequent. I can give multiple examples if needed.[/quote]
You keep on saying you play him as a gunner which pretty much defeats the point of picking Phantom over any Merc. You rather rely on RNG to get a kill which any other class can do better at.
Why do you keep trying to dismiss the other classes obviously better abilities to make Phantom sound better??? You sound like someone with a serious case of buyers remorse…
