Phantom, a failure, not an assasin.


(HoakinBlackforge) #1

I may be a miserable rank 5, but i have a lot of experience on fps and these kind of mechanics/gameplay.

First, his main problem is, its invisibility, its a terribly made joke, not only because its not fully invisible, but also its useless ability, it doesnt help on the “assasin” role hes supposed to carry.

Second, hes weak, really weak, though an assasin shoulndt have that much hp, but, his weakness is how slow in combat he is, while carrying his melee weapon makes him go faster, when you attack, it basically stops him, its literal bullshit, and his melee attacks are terrible already, the aiming speed debuff when you attack renders him useless, and basically ready to be shot in the face like a retard.

The idea that could balance him and at least make him fullfill a role on team, is pretty easy:

1- Make his Invisibility fully invisible until he makes an attack, and indefinitely, but cant avoid damage anymore.

2- Allow him to keep sprinting while meleeing, and be able to hit multiple enemies with his primary melee attack, along with a more wide attack, because its damn hard to track enemies on screen with melee, and make only single enemies with secondary attack.

He could get a small health nerf as well.

As i want to make clear with this post, phantom doesnt actually fill his role of assasin/ambusher, he practically fails on it. Hes supposed to wait for the enemy, and when the chance comes, quickly finish enemies wihout the enemy being able to react before consequences. Not being easily spotted because a godamn grenade removed his invisibility and failing to fill his role on the game.


(watsyurdeal) #2

Yep we know, Phantom sucks as a stealth class but as long people like Amerika and others can stomp with him on a pub, they’ll never bother fixing him.


(HoakinBlackforge) #3

It doesnt make sense, he doesnt fit anywhere and practically his job is useles now, how are people able to get a single kill with him?


(Sir_Slam) #4

Playing phantom is like telling tell the rest of your team, “You guys got this, im gonna dick around now.”

But yeah its pretty well known that in any serious play Phantom is pretty much ignored/troll pick. You can make anything work in pubs.

That and Amerika is just scary.


(gg2ez) #5

Phantom sucks a*s as an assassin right now. The only way he helps his team is killing people, and that’s a pitiful excuse for a Recon class. If anything needs to happen, it’s Phantom being rebranded as an assault class or given an ability to fix his lack of team synergy.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying Phantom is underpowered or anything, in fact his killing potential is right where it needs to be but he sucks so much as recon.


(XavienX) #6

Phantom’s just in a okay spot right now. I really don’t think there should have ever been a turn melee limit because it just doesn’t make sense. Think logic and other games on meleeing, does any game or real life limit you want you’re swiping you sword??? Also the fact that he runs faster with his revolver out than his katana doesn’t even make sense either since the Devs nerfed his speed with the katana to 94.5% instead of 100%.


(Yoshimoto) #7

yea when i hear the word “assassin”, i imagine a super speedy merc, who can kill you really quikly and unexpectedly if you dont see him first. but hwere we have… phantom…

and hes pretty much the opposite of that. his kit is just unbalancable, people will either call him op or up, he jsut needs a rework to add utility to his kit. otherwise its useless to try and balance him.


(JJMAJR) #8

Phantom is an Assault class. He is made to become a serious presence on the battlefield and cause a lot of mayhem, to either push or deny an area.

It’s unfortunate that Splash Damage would likely have this guy be the only camouflage based merc. I liked Ballistic for the variety of stealth classes, but anyone who played the game knows how broken the class system was. It wasn’t relevant to the stealth factor. In fact it was more garbage than the Phantom’s right now.


(HoakinBlackforge) #9

Well, it basically seems they overnerfed him, because its problem was a stupid bug with melee attacks, what the hell.

So, yeah, the thing is, hes supposed to create chaos and remove enemies quickly from the battlefield, but right now hes useless.

Its stupid because a single guy destroys with phantom they are not gonna balance him well for the rest of the community.


(Someordinaryguy) #10

Phantom is only good atm versus bad/new players. I played as Phantom against low levels and got insane scores like http://i.imgur.com/Fuu5Iqe.jpg

But against good players Phantom is useless, unless they’re distracted by teammates. Even when you flank (which you should always do) this “ringing” noise of the cloak is a dead giveaway.

Moreover most people playing Phantom treat him as Assault: I’ve seen countless players rushing uncloaked (or even cloaked) straight at enemies and spamming their SMG’s. IMHO this is not how Phantom should be played. He should be amazing at flanking and surprise attacks and suck in direct combat. This would require buffing his speed and cloak, plus fixing katana (speed limiter, stab attack reduced “reach”, turn speed nerf removes, chopper brought back to 20%, bigger “range” of attacks). But at the same time his combat and tanking stats should be nerfed, either by reducing/removing “armor” aspect of his cloak, removing SMG’s from his loadouts or reducing his HP. That way Phantom players will have to play him smart, constantly flanking and picking off HVT’s (engineers, medics, snipers, lone wolf players)


(Grave_Knight) #11

[quote=“HoakinBlackforge;19043”]First, his main problem is, its invisibility, its a terribly made joke, not only because its not fully invisible, but also its useless ability, it doesnt help on the “assasin” role hes supposed to carry.[/quote]This here tells me everything I need to know about how you play Phantom. You are aware you don’t have to sprint everywhere, right? If you just would stop sprinting he becomes a lot less visible.

The second thing you should know is DO NOT RELY on the sword. Sure it’s great to quickly take someone down, especially if they’re low on health, but the best tactic you can do when using that weapon is to strike once if you can catch them off guard and than finish them with your primary or secondary. Another, and probably more reliable tactic is just line up your primary or secondary for a headshot. I’ve never tried it myself but supposedly there is a tactic where you use you shot once with a revolver than quickly switch to the primary and unload.[quote=“Watsyurdeal;97045”]Yep we know, Phantom sucks as a stealth class but as long people like Amerika and others can stomp with him on a pub, they’ll never bother fixing him.[/quote]Even Amerika would tell you he’s not doing anything special. Yeah, he’s good (I don’t like facing him in a fight) but his tactics with Phantom are built on what is practical, that’s why he pub stomps. If you want to get decent with the Phantom watch his videos, they’ll show you how you should play.

Look, I’ll be the first to say that Phantom is a little on the weak side. But only by a little. The only thing I want to see is giving him a marking power or a slight increase to one of his stats, and maybe extend his heavy attack a little. He doesn’t need to be less visible, he doesn’t need super murder dash, he doesn’t need all these fancy changes people want to give him.


(watsyurdeal) #12

See, here’s the thing

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/392169906062871195/0218E1AE30F7B972F9EC4E64E6ADFB98B69D8455/

Just because I can get scores like this with Phantom, that doesn’t mean he’s balanced.

Nothing I was doing was stealthy or sneaky, not once did I feel like the Refractive Armor make a major difference compared to abilities of other mercs. I was just shooting everyone I saw.

That doesn’t mean Phantom is ok as he is, if anything, that means he has nothing special about him, he doesn’t do anything that makes him worth using over other mercs. So, what do we do?


(Rosenkreuz) #13

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;97801”]See, here’s the thing

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/392169906062871195/0218E1AE30F7B972F9EC4E64E6ADFB98B69D8455/

Just because I can get scores like this with Phantom, that doesn’t mean he’s balanced.

Nothing I was doing was stealthy or sneaky, not once did I feel like the Refractive Armor make a major difference compared to abilities of other mercs. I was just shooting everyone I saw.

That doesn’t mean Phantom is ok as he is, if anything, that means he has nothing special about him, he doesn’t do anything that makes him worth using over other mercs. So, what do we do?[/quote]

Splash Damage needs to rethink everything about Phantom. If they want him to be the battlefield ninja assassin then they have to actually make him that way while forgoing everything that makes the typical Medium merc the typical Medium merc. If they want him to be a recon then they have to make him into a recon, but if they did that then he’d be very similar to Redeye who can already “spot enemies while hidden.”

I think the problem with the battlefield ninja assassin model is that nobody likes being assassinated. Sure, no one likes dying in general, but being assassinated is probably the most frustrating death a player could face out of everything else in a PvP shooter.


(Szakalot) #14

Phantom is fine, he is hard to spot when not moving, so the assassin element is right there, you can camp and pick off high value targets, usually a medic.

On a 8v8 pub a good phantom can be really annoying when teams fight over an extended period of time. The abilities are just too lackluster for 5v5, he doesn’t bring enough to the table compared to another medic, sniper, etc.


(Lokee) #15

Regged to bump this thread. In his current state Phantom is inadvisable for competitive play, I am of the opinion that maybe if he were to become an objective specialist there would be no need for a complete overhaul.

(Also: Find a better solution to the Beyblade fiasco than that fucking turn slowdown, turn slowdown makes Jesus cry)


(yusayu) #16

Same goes for Kira, Arty, Redeye…
Invisible mercs (as cool as they might be for all the 12-year olds who love assassins creed unity or any of the other new ones and always wanna be an assassin) are just not practical. I do not know any game where there was invisibility without counter that implemented it well, in any game. In Planetside the Cloaker is a joke, only used for hacking terminals, in League of Leggins it was a pain in the ass to balance stuff like Rengar/Evelynn (while in Dota 2 they just added tons of stuff to counter invisibility, making heroes that full-on depended on it like Riki basically useless) and in Hots they went with the most stupid way of any MOBA, including Smite. In any MMO, assassins are just either stupid in PVP (BnS, Aion, Archeage) or borderline useless.
If your invis is visible, good-enough players will just always spot you. Same goes for when it produces any audible sound. You might aswell just not be invis in such a case.
Making it unspottable, completly silent on the other hand might not be the most balance-friendly idea either because attacking an enemy from behind almost always nets you a kill on them, thats just how shooters work.

Either way, rework him completely. No invis, no focus on Swords, just think of a completely different way to implement a Phantom (not all phantoms need to be invisible, mind you. You can stay pretty invisible through your general movement in this game.)


(bontsa) #17

Against the long list of games that have quite bad invisibility, in the shorter list of games that have gotten invisibility right though, TF2 stands out quite well in my opinion.

Summary inbound, if you’re familiar with TF2 just skip (or feel free to proof-check!)

[spoiler]When activating the cloak, Spy is completely invisible but unable to use guns or melee. This is till cloak runs out or when he himself decides to decloak, which takes about half a second and makes somewhat distinct sound, and then he can use whatever weapon he had on. Cloak would flicker when Spy bumped into enemies, so he can’t slip right next to any actually aware player without getting spotted and destroyded. He can use disguising to catch up his prey between decloaking in peace and approaching target. Spy is rather strong character, for that he is able to backstab (instakill when hit from behind) enemies with his short-ranged melee. There is also direct counter for him: Pyro who is able to set enemies on fire, making cloaked and disguised Spies completely visible when in flames and being able to push them away with airblast ability.[/spoiler]

/summary over

Now to Phantom. As someone said here, no one likes getting assasinated. Where that comes from? There can be as many reasons as there are assasinated players, but I feel it mostly comes down to feeling powerless against out-of-blue kills which you felt like you, no matter what you would’ve done differently, could’ve prevented. Obviously if you dwelve deep enough, you find stuff like positioning, awareness etc. but everyone cannot do everything at once. That powerlessness is what I feel is one of the main reasons of him being the odd one both after using Phantom and playing with/against them.

His cloak as it is now, doesn’t feel like fitting into fast paced game. It punishes you for moving fast, but if utilized so that you are completely still, you can have almost unpreventable hop on your enemy and that’s where I think people have the feeling he is bs. Almost unpreventable since yes, there is humming sound, but there is usually so much spam and noise all around the game going that it’s tough to catch. Awareness awareness yeah, stuff shouldn’t be made easymode but neither put too much distinctiveness into one counter.

I think this was one of the reasons SD wanted to add shield to it, to make movement punishment feel less discouraging, as compensation and preventing stray explosives & bullet spam being so extremely dangerous, but it just doesn’t have right feel to it. With invisibility he should already have advantage of repositioning himself in a way not possible for any other merc, so he should be able to dodge or least anticipate where most of the projectiles are going to be flying around.

Some peeps in forums all over have already suggested this, but simply making Phantom to exit his cloak manually with some kind of a distinct voice cue before attacking / interacting with anything would be worth trying. How about making Phantom, while invisible, stay that way no matter the speed he was going on land, but flicker greatly maybe right next to an enemy and when walljumping? How about removing shield but make him not be detected by mines when invisible and have gain Guardian Angel perk temporarily while using cloak, so it’s all upto himself to dodge those strikes instead of trusting the shield? I wouldn’t mind some sort of a spotting / disabling ability either given that he’s recon, but that’s completely another debate.


(watsyurdeal) #18

While I don’t play tf2 anymore, I can not deny that it did a stealth class better than anyone else. Period.

The only tricky thing is the decloak noise, rate, and whether or not to keep armor. Personally, I feel like a distinct noise when you decloak a 1 second activation and deactivation time, and keep the armor and draining cloak on hit mechanic, but make it so it doesn’t need to be fully charged to use it again. 8 seconds of cloak with a 16 second recharge seems perfect.


(Szakalot) #19

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;99004”]While I don’t play tf2 anymore, I can not deny that it did a stealth class better than anyone else. Period.

The only tricky thing is the decloak noise, rate, and whether or not to keep armor. Personally, I feel like a distinct noise when you decloak a 1 second activation and deactivation time, and keep the armor and draining cloak on hit mechanic, but make it so it doesn’t need to be fully charged to use it again. 8 seconds of cloak with a 16 second recharge seems perfect.[/quote]

have you played ET/QW? those had really nice stealth classes too: you could steal an enemy’s uniform and look exactly like an opponent, while still giving a few options for catching the infiltrator red-handed


(watsyurdeal) #20

No I haven’t, but unless friendly fire is on, disguises are useless. There’s zero punishment for checking allies to see if they’re enemies