Phantom, a failure, not an assasin.

(Sir_Slam) #21

Remember back in the old days when you had to beg Pyro to do it anyway?

(jazevec) #22

Maybe they want him to be a honeypot for black sheep, people who don’t give a north end of a south bound rat about their team ? A merc for people who want to shoot stuff while looking cool.

Phantom is not katana. There are two loadouts with knife, and two with stiletto.
Phantom is not only melee. He can shoot just as well as anyone else and you don’t have to chase, just position yourself on someone’s flank and open fire. Use melee when it’s convenient.

(Amerika) #23

Uhh, exactly when did I become the enemy here @Watsyurdeal (see, I’ll actually tag you so you know I’m talking about you)? I’ve done quite a bit to try and get Phantom fixed as you well know. You know exactly what my thoughts are on fixing Phantom and you also know I don’t think he’s in a great shape right now for 5v5. There isn’t enough carnage going on and players are too aware of how to counter him in a competitive setting.

We’ve discussed this numerous times and even came up with some rather good ideas on what could be done to help him out without turning him into the TF2 spy on steroids getting cheap kill after cheap kill. You know the reasons why they can’t turn him into the TF2 spy (there isn’t rock/paper/scissors balancing in DB and counters aren’t a button press away at all times) yet here we are with you acting as if I’m saying Phantom is fine.

Please, do not ignore what was said before because you haven’t gotten your way and then place blame on me (as if I have any sway). That’s just childish. I’m just as pissed that SD is ignoring this and flat out said that they aren’t giving him a secondary ability and Shoe even said on stream something about how not everyone will always be the best pick in competitive play (in other words they aren’t going to do much).

(watsyurdeal) #24

Uhh, exactly when did I become the enemy here @Watsyurdeal (see, I’ll actually tag you so you know I’m talking about you)? I’ve done quite a bit to try and get Phantom fixed as you well know. You know exactly what my thoughts are on fixing Phantom and you also know I don’t think he’s in a great shape right now for 5v5. There isn’t enough carnage going on and players are too aware of how to counter him in a competitive setting.

We’ve discussed this numerous times and even came up with some rather good ideas on what could be done to help him out without turning him into the TF2 spy on steroids getting cheap kill after cheap kill. You know the reasons why they can’t turn him into the TF2 spy (there isn’t rock/paper/scissors balancing in DB and counters aren’t a button press away at all times) yet here we are with you acting as if I’m saying Phantom is fine.

Please, do not ignore what was said before because you haven’t gotten your way and then place blame on me (as if I have any sway). That’s just childish. I’m just as pissed that SD is ignoring this and flat out said that they aren’t giving him a secondary ability and Shoe even said on stream something about how not everyone will always be the best pick in competitive play (in other words they aren’t going to do much).[/quote]

@Amerika
I should probably explain

See, as long as people like you, me, or Ragnak, just names off the top of my head, can do well with Phantom on a public server, they will think he is fine.

And that’s where my problem is with Phantom, yes, he is fine on pubs but so is everything else, because the variance in raw skill, team work, and meta is so huge.

Compare that to a competitve environment, where aim is for the most part even with a handful of people rising above the rest, where team work is mandatory, and everyone understands the game VERY well.

Phantom is simply NOT going to be used in that environment, and until he at least has a niche that is powerful and nobody else can fill, I won’t be satisfied.

Now, to the rest of the post. I’m sorry if my reply seemed like it was a stab at you, it wasn’t meant to be, I’m more pissed at the devs because they are arrogant as fuck it feels. They don’t seem to realize that if they want to make a competitive game they need to listen to their competitive audience, and if they wonder why it’s not there, it’s because they are LEAVING. They do not want to invest time in the game because they feel they are not wanted, that simple. It’s a clarity thing, please don’t take what I say as a jab at you, BELIEVE ME, you’d know.

(jazevec) #25

Phantom is fine on pubs without level restrictions. I haven’t seen Amerika record a single video on a level 10+ server. He makes his points against opponents 1/10 his level.

(Amerika) #26

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

That was two short play sessions when it was a Skyhammer kind of day for me (I tend to just feel like playing somebody exclusively for a day) when a Min Level 10 server actually had players.

Now, lets see you record some gameplay of yourself and post it. If you’re going to be constantly hypercritical why don’t you go ahead and put yourself out there as opposed to linking to edited YT videos of players who won’t even gib opponents and you calling it inspired play.

(watsyurdeal) #27

https://forum.teksyndicate.com/uploads/default/23033/000671f19b7f01c2.gif

(Amerika) #28

Also, @jazevec, since you might say I didn’t do it with Phantom (as he is the current subject matter) I went and played three rounds tonight on Phantom since there was a Min Level 10 running. I uploaded the first and third since the second had too many people bailing non-stop on the other team (something common on those servers).

So here (multiple aces).

And here (with Godlike).

So can we stop with the petty remarks?

Also, @Watsyurdeal no worries. I read it as if you were stating I was advocating that Phantom is perfectly fine. I understand your meaning now and sorry for overshooting what I thought you meant. I should have just asked instead of assumed. My bad dude.

(Grave_Knight) #29

Tch. I knew I was missing something when I run Phantom. The guy is almost as reliant on support as Rhino (also I think I might be a little too impatient). Watching Amerika’s plays shows me sometimes I really should just sit down and watch the enemies.

(gg2ez) #30

You’re a pretty funny guy, Jazevec. For someone who can’t even provide evidence of his own prowess, you sure are quick to judge.

(jazevec) #31

Show me yours, I’ll show you mine. And if your penis is too small I won’t listen to your arguments.

(gg2ez) #32

Oh no. I’m a terrible player, I ain’t afraid to admit that, but your beef is with Amerika isn’t it? Last time I checked he already showed his. I think it’s your turn now, or is your penis too small?

(Amerika) #33

Well, he’s not Fragger but he’s also not meant to be Fragger. I’d sit in the pocket and bang more with Fragger since he has more HP and faster killing weapon + grenades. But with Phantom you have to play smart. Sometimes you have to sit and wait for opportunities and then choose to kill key people or wait for people to pass so you can flank without them hearing you and shoot them in the back. People don’t use it that often but sitting still makes you virtually invisible. Then using your gun as a long ranged sword pretty much allows you to murder one person without them being able to do much about it then move on to the next or run (and hopefully have your armor back off CD). Notice how I was trying to go after medics and then engineers pretty often or even healing stations and I tried to have an escape plan ready. With Fragger I’d just go in and mow people down after throwing a grenade and be less picky on targets.

He’s pretty much as reliant on others as any non-medic is but at least you can use the invis to gain back a lot of HP while waiting on a target.

He’s a lot more effective in Stopwatch when you know exactly when spawn waves are coming and can pick off people easier. Sadly, this doesn’t work in smaller games with players who are more aware and have less that they need to be a ware of in a proper 5v5 game. Which is why Phantom needs changing and some added utility. Seriously am pretty pissed the more I think about SD refusing to do anything about that when it seems obvious to many people who have discussed the topic that he needs it.

No. I am not petty like that. I listen to anybody who makes a logical argument. Most people who have been here for a while on this forum will attest to that. You don’t have to be amazing at the game to know how it works and should play and have a valid opinion. Change happens through debate and discussion at all levels. There is more than just one type of player to make happy in a game like this and people have to be willing to understand and accommodate and sometime compromise even if it doesn’t fit their personal vision perfectly. I wouldn’t mind seeing you play though as I wouldn’t mind seeing everyone play. It’s a great way to see through their eyes how they view the game. Which is another reason I put up my own unedited videos. You can see the game through my eyes and experience.

(signofzeta) #34

I think Phantom is a recon no matter how you look at it. There are many class based shooters, such as Team Fortress, Battlefield, etc, but the way you should group the mercs in dirty bomb by class is comparing to the Wolfenstein Enemy Territory classes. The way I see the 5 classes in this game is the same way I see the 5 classes in ET. If it plays like the class in ET, then it is that class.

In ET, soldiers carry heavy weapons. Assaults all carry heavy weapons. You may say, Fragger has the frag grenade, and Thunder has the concussion grenade. Those aren’t heavy weapons. True, but Fragger and Thunder are the only 2 classes that is allowed to carry an LMG. In Brink, Fragger’s LMG would be like the Maximus, Thunder’s would probably be like the Chinzor, and Rhino’s minigun would be the Gotlung.

In ET, Medics have health packs and a revive syringe. All medic mercs in Dirty Bomb both have some form of healing ability, and an efficient revival ability.

In ET, Engineers are the only class that can do primary objectives, because their pliers repair, construct, and disarm. They also have the dynamite for destroy objectives. Engineers in ET have a landmine, and can also use rifle nades. In Dirty Bomb, Engineer mercs are objective specialists, and can use explosives too.

In ET, Field Ops call fire support, like airstrikes and artillery strikes, and also give out ammo. The Fire Support mercs in Dirty Bomb have an ability to deal massive area damage and can also give ammo. Stoker is different, because he doesn’t really use a radio to call in damage, so you may say he is an Assault, but as I said, what makes an Assault an Assault is that assaults carry heavy weapons. If Stoker carried a heavy weapon as well as a molotov, he would be assault.

In ET, Covert Ops has access to all scoped weapons, like the scoped FG42 and the sniper rifle. They have a satchel charge where they can remotely detonate to destroy secondary objectives. They can throw smoke grenades to provide cover, they can disguise as the enemy, and they can spot mines by using the binoculars and looking at an area, because mines are buried, and as such are invisible. Recon mercs pretty much do all these things, except split into 4 mercs. Vasili is the sniper, and can use the heartbeat sensor as some sort of radar that reveals enemy locations. Redeye has the smoke grenade, as well as the IR goggles. Phantom has the invisibility, which is basically like ET’s disguise. In Dirty Bomb, you can’t disguise as the enemy because they look exactly like you. It doesn’t make any sense because there is no difference between your team, and the enemy team in terms of player model. The point of disguise is to blend in with a group of enemies, and invisibility is the same thing. There’s Aimee. What I suggest for her is that she have a third eye camera that can detonate exactly like the ET satchel charge. You can use the alternate ability to look through the camera, like in ETQW, and you can use it to mark enemy deployable objects so teammates can see ammo stations, health stations, turtle shields, turrets and mines through walls. Vasili detects people, Aimee detects things.

Looking at these 5 classes, Phantom is 100% recon.