Petition: Tighten CoF/Increase Headshot Damage

(deems) #61

Vote against.

(H3LLS1) #62

*/signed*

(kristus) #63

Would love to see better gun control. Also I am not sure what everyone else thinks. But the mounted machinegun nests are almost completely useless. Their spread is absurd.

(INF3RN0) #64

I agree. It was the worst method of reducing turret spam ever…

(ragnak) #65

chest/legs damage reduced + headshot damage left untouched + less spread = game where you can have fun from shooting

(lukethebrilliant) #66

i’m in on reducing the body shot damage but the head shots i think should only be one shot kills with a sniper

(canvasback) #67

Something needs to be changed/tweaked to reward a good shot. +1

And where’s my ETQW frying pan ‘clank’ when I do land a headshot?

(burawura) #68

Uhhh I don’t get it. People complain about inaccurate weapons yet in that 5v5 tourney all I saw were people running around using carb-9s with foregrips and drum mags, and holding down that trigger whenever they get into combat. I’m not saying I don’t do the same thing, but it’s kind of embarassing. Can’t we learn how to use the guns properly?

Every time I take the time to aim and burst, I win fights that I shouldn’t, even in cqc, even with weapons like the cross and carb. I don’t get why some of you only seem to want to use LG-type guns. It’s just plain boring.

(INF3RN0) #69

[QUOTE=burawura;320092]
Every time I take the time to aim and burst, I win fights that I shouldn’t, even in cqc, even with weapons like the cross and carb. I don’t get why some of you only seem to want to use LG-type guns. It’s just plain boring.[/QUOTE]

Didn’t you read the post where a guy explains that burst firing is flawed? SMGs give you the best random spray damage, and no one wants random spray damage deciding a fire fight. ET did it best and this new gun-play system was the last thing anyone expected to happen (its not even comparable to COD). Only folks I have seen so far that claim they can out gun someone with an SMG haven’t watched a scrim between good teams in this game. It’s not like people didn’t try to use the other weapons first…

(burawura) #70

Yes, I read it. The fact that the spread decays relatively slowly to your taste does not make the burst firing flawed, INF3RNO. If you don’t want random spray damage deciding a fight, then don’t spray!
It just means you have to wait a little longer between bursts. Use the weapons the way they were designed to be used and it might surprise you how effective they are.

(burawura) #71

Also, I’ve watched every minute of Brink TV footage so far. The SMG part is irrelevant. SMGs are for up close, ARs for longer ranges. If you want to win fights, burst fire at the enemy’s head, each weapon is different for how long you can accurately burst at different ranges. This game has been out for 2 weeks and people are shouting to buff all the guns? Really? Ridiculous. You just want the fighting to be quake-style LG strafe fights? Boring.

(FoxiT) #72

[QUOTE=Mattc0m;316521]I’m strongly against anything that changes core gameplay. I hope some of the issues can be addressed in regular play, but if it comes down between a mod that changes the core gameplay between “professional” and “vanilla” gameplay, it creates a divide that kills the competitive scene. If these changes can be added into the “vanilla” version of the game, patch in by Splash Damage, then sure–go for it. But creating two versions of the same game is just bad news.

What people fail to realize is that in order for a game to succeed in competition, it needs to grow, or at least not shrink. The competition scene will shrink a lot after the first 1 or 2 months as people go back to their old communities or new games are released. This is a given.

The growth that counters that comes from teams being formed after playing the actual game. As casual players get better, or former pros from other games play Brink, they get an itch to take it to the next level. They’re elevated (which is usually a rough transition) from casually playing Brink to joining in scrims, PUGs, etc. You’ve got your next wave of competitive gamers.

What a Pro mod often does is essentially say “hey, new gamers, we’re not interested in you.” It’s the “experienced” competitors creating an artificial wall between the core game and “their” version of the game. It does nothing but affirm the top team’s position, creates barriers for new teams, and stagnates growth of the scene.

Often times a pro mod will have good intentions and brings needed additions like demos, ready up mode, better spectator features, better anti-cheat abilities, and minor gameplay changes like spawn times. I’m all for this. In fact, I was hugely in favor of ETQWPro because it brought so many needed changes. But, major changes to accuracy, damage, guns, speed, health, buffs, etc. can be introduced on top, embraced by a vocal “hardcore” competitive crowd, and ultimately it’s that same “vocal” crowd that will move back to whatever game community they’re so found of (whether it’s Counter Strike, Call of Duty, or Enemy Territory).

Brink is not those games. Yes, gunplay can be a bit spammy. Yes, sometimes nades, mines, and buffs play a bigger role than an individual’s aim. What you fail to realize is that it’s a team game and teamplay, strategies, tactics, and the ability for teams to adapt are not only more important, but it’s the focus of the game.

Please embrace Brink for what it is, or move on. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to keep a community united (playing the SAME GAME). Furthermore, it frustrates me, because the same audience that calls for big gameplay changes are NOT the people who see playing 2 or 3 seasons from now, living with the consequences of their decisions, because they’re ultimately unsatisfied with the game or want something that game simply isn’t.[/QUOTE]

Matt i agrre 100% with you. I am thinking about this for a long time. I come from ET and QW and ofc i use these games as parameter to judge BRINK. Anyway i don’t want to make BRINK a new et, coz it pointless. In my opionion game is perfect in here core things, coz it is perfect mix of et, cod and a bit of css… That’s why we see a huge new players coming from such different backgrounds. And i think also that have a promod at this point will be very bad thing for BRINK. We have to keep comunity united, both usa and eu(and all the others if there will be), with same or similar rules and with no stupid limitations… That’s my point, and it is same as yours…

(justince) #73

Lol.

It makes me wonder if people play this game when they talk. The problem with smgs is that their so ****ing random that just holding mouse1 literally =win and makes rifles completely useless, so why not give them more of a skill cap if their already effective at every range in this game since the maps are really poorly designed?

Also, when it comes to ads, it’s quite annoying to ads at mid-close range because of how buggy the character models look. They just don’t flow right.

I’m sorry, but they released an unfinished product that will die with in a month or two if a lot of the issues people are saying arent fixed. They didn’t even fix the weapon bug in which you simply put in a command so you can run an hmg or ar on a light, not gonna disclose the information because i don’t wanna get banned and it is very low key but it’s pathetic how after TWO patches when a friend of mine submitted this bug day 2 there was NO patch to even lock the command.

I know they have to make the game playable for everyone first and then this stuff takes priorty, but it WOULD BE NICE if we got some word from an SD employee.

(Rahabib) #74

so today I decided to really test out some cheat cvars to test out some weapons. Here are the commands

net_allowCheats “1”

//known
g_playtestBalanceWeaponRecoilRateScale “1.0” // recoil 1.0
g_playtestBalanceWeaponSpreadAngleMaxScale “1.0” // max spread multiplier 1.0
g_playtestBalanceWeaponSpreadAngleMinScale “0.5” // min/starting accuracy 1.0

// still unknown
g_weaponStationaryAccuracyThreshold “80.0” // accuracy of shots? 80
g_recoilScale “1.0” // 1
g_weaponAccuracyStateTime “200” // 200
g_weaponEnableAngleCreep “1” // 1
g_weaponEnablePowerCreep “1” // 1
g_weaponEnableViewKick “1” // 1
g_weaponFireCommandmapRange “2048” // 2048
g_weaponSwitchTimeout “1.5” // 1.5
g_weaponViewRecoilScale “40” // 40

the three at the top work. the ones at the bottom I dont see anything happening, but I may be looking at the wrong thing. There are two things to note: first, all of these are global, so you set it really tight on one weapon it will stay that way on all weapons. two, the numbers behind the “//” are the defaults, so you can toggle back and forth.

The main one I was playing with is the g_playtestBalanceWeaponSpreadAngleMinScale and here is the difference.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/rahabib/screenshots/

Honestly, you wont notice a ton of difference until you try really long ranges, but setting it to 0 will make the first shot (unless moving etc.) dead on no matter what weapon (and spread from there of course). I found 0.5 is a good balance but there may need to be additional adjustments to get the game at a happy medium between lasers and paintball gun. There are also modifiers for damage etc. but I didnt play with them because I am happy with the low damage and no (er… relatively few) OHKs.

more vars:
http://pastebin.com/D94Mvivn

You can compensate it by adding a bit of recoil, but it seems that just adjusting the min scale down a tad will not change the game dramatically, and make the weapons slightly more useful. Also feel free to play with the unknown commands. I haven’t found full documentation on those, and they dont seem to do what I would expect them to do.

So, since we are trying to help and be specific on what we want to tweak, you may want to try these out. If most people agree in some kind of new defaults maybe SD will change them up.

(RaKeD) #75

Great post and test Rahabib.Thank You for your effort !

Damn that small crosshair circle looks sexy !! Imo the main problem is the spread while using automatic fire over a longer period of time(crosshair get s bigger and bigger = spread that produces random shots in a firefight)

My iead would be:

Instead of making the crosshair bigger and bigger add some recoil that can be compensated but makes shooting on small targets over distance harder in automatic fire and shooting in close ranger more intense and skillful.

Boost AR’s with more accuracy(less spread,more recoil) and more damage/higher rof.

Boost Heavy weapons with a lot more accuracy(a lot less spread and more recoil) and more damage.

(chas) #76

[QUOTE=burawura;321630]Yes, I read it. The fact that the spread decays relatively slowly to your taste does not make the burst firing flawed, INF3RNO. If you don’t want random spray damage deciding a fight, then don’t spray!
It just means you have to wait a little longer between bursts. Use the weapons the way they were designed to be used and it might surprise you how effective they are.[/QUOTE]

“Don’t spray” will make you lose every single firefight every time. Please realize how flawed your argument is.

(burawura) #77

Oh, ok…thanks for educating me. I will hold down that LMB on every target in every situation from any range with any weapon now, and I will definitely be a better player for it. Thanks for the tip, Chas!

Please consider that aiming a reticle at a target is the most simplistic part of team fps gameplay and get over it. There are other skills to be utilized in this game that are more important than precision aiming. By tightening the cofs on all the guns, you will be elevating the most simplistic part of the gameplay over others. Your preconceived notions of how this game should play seem to be getting in the way of your enjoyment of the game as it is. Expecting to be successful doing little strafe-spray showdowns out in the open while ignoring all the tactical decisions that could make a fight easier is old-hat gameplay; I want something more interesting from Brink.

(Rahabib) #78

from what I have found, theres now way to increase recoil over time from these variables; its only built into the weapons themselves, so if you increase recoil it would be overall, which may be ok - we would have to see. From what you said you probably could do something like a min scale of 0.5 (or lower) and a max scale of 0.7 or 0.8. That will keep the spread lower overall - even at full auto. Then you simply add recoil rate scale to 1.2 or something to compensate. I am at work so I cant test it till later, but you get the idea.

One thing i found from my tests anyway, would be to have the ARs min scale set to 0.2 and have SMGs at 0.5 and MGs at 0.5 as well. If there was a way to set just the ADS, I would set them all to 0.5 and for ARs set it a bit lower.

Now some of you are probably saying to yourself “hey this is making everything 50% more accurate” - and thats not necessarily the case. What these are really doing is setting the first shot at 50% more accurate and then it scales up from there, and at full auto, it will get back to the original spread. So in other-words, in burst mode it just BEGINS at 50% more accurate; which honestly feels a lot more that ET if you test it.

Now the problem becomes, when will it begin to feel like a completely different game, which could be a good thing, but generally should be avoided. As I stated in another thread when I created a BF2 competition mod, that some people will endure bad game play just so that its not dramatically different from vanilla, which in my opinion is too bad - but I have come to terms with that. However, if a few tweaks from vanilla is what it takes, a slight adjustment is better than nothing. I too hate cones, I would rather have min and max scale set to 0 (or at least very low) and have adjustable heavy recoil if it was possible to predict it and control it with practice (you cant set vertical and horizontal recoil separately) - but I know that just wont fly because it would be a completely new game and new players would have to readjust to the new mechanics of it. Perhaps that would best be utilized as a fun mod (Ill probably do something like that if an SDK ever gets released).

(DonkeyDong) #79

true!

/signed

and can we get that ol’ familular ‘tink’ noise when we hit the head?

(Rahabib) #80

I should also put this here:
http://denkirson.xanga.com/738334226/brink/

these are the default accuracies. Unless there is more behind the scenes, I would imagine an Gerund would be
0.2 * (modifiers for attachments) * g_playtest…
so an unmodified Gerund with playtest min scale of 0.5 would have a FIRST shot of 0.1 which amounts to a just a few pixels.
The Carb9 would be
2.0 (sight) * (0 modifiers) * gplaytest of 0.5 = 1.0 which is still a bit of spread at long range, but a decent increase in getting those headshots at medium and short range.

If max scale is left at 1.0 at full auto it would generate to the same max spread as before. There are more modifiers that are not included on that list that are crucial like recoil, and spread per bullet.